AAnalyst
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Delta DFW Announcement

Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:39 pm

Local news here in Dallas is reporting that Delta will make a "major" announcement regarding their DFW hub this week.

Any speculation?
Knowledge is Power. Power Corrupts. - Study Hard, Be Evil
 
N6376M
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:56 pm

Yeah - they're going to replace Atlanta with DFW as it's home base.

Common now, everyone knows that the announcement is that they're going to significantly scale back the DFW hub. This topic is as ubiquitous as NW DC-9 threads. I hope your not an AAviation AAnalyst.
 
atcboy73
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:11 am

If there is a "major" announcement regarding the hub at DFW does anyone honestly think its going to be about keeping the service levels the same, a small build up or a bigger expansion?

Im thinking probably not.

Its gona suck it Delta closes its hub at DFW in more ways than one.

Then again this doesn't have to be bad news. Who knows, maybe they are going to roll out the same fare structure as they did at CVG. Now, from what I hear that could be a plus.
 
andersjt
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:16 am

While I was in SLC on Sunday waiting for my Delta flight, I overheard a lot of the agents talking about "something" happening there in November. You definitely notice the cutbacks there. A LOT of RJ traffic, both Skywest and Comair. The Salt Lake City news is also reporting that the city is nervous about Delta pulling their hub out.
Oh how I long for the day when the skies were truly Friendly!
 
drerx7
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:25 am

Delta will pull out of DFW before SLC. One thing that I have noticed as a traveller is that alot of routings voluntarily pull up flights via ATL even if it is out of the way--example IAH-ATL-HNL or points westward. With the Skyteam Alliance and Continental and Northwest members it would probably be more fruitful to focus on connection oportunities at IAH vs. DFW. IAH has more Skyteam carriers and international traffic than DFW.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
srbmod
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:57 am

As for SLC, I wouldn't be surprised if ASA moves into SLC, as if the DFW hub for DL is pulled, those CRJs would have to go somewhere, mainly at the expense of SkyWest.
 
PlaneGuy27
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:01 am

All of those poor Delta FF passengers from those Mississippi, Louisiana Texas and Alabama who want to go west will now have to backtrack through ATL.

Delta - what are you doing? I have actually connected with DL at DFW and it is always so easy!

I can't imagine them closing both DFW and SLC...but who knows...
 
AA777DFW
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:04 am

I hope they can bring their 777 here!
 
VS346
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:39 am

PlaneGuy27: which is why as a DL FF passenger, I'm happy CO and NW are getting involved, as I will be traveling through IAH or MEM when going west. Which both make much more sense than ATL! DL is losing at least that part of my business.

What a shame.

VS346
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:44 am

All of those poor Delta FF passengers from those Mississippi, Louisiana Texas and Alabama who want to go west will now have to backtrack through ATL

Actually, many of us prefer to do that anyways.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
TLHFLA
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:00 am

I wonder if Delta scales back DFW if they will add service from SLC to places like TPA and FLL. Even just one flight per day on a 738 would provide a more direct alternative to the west coast instead of having to come through ATL or CVG.
Bill in ATL
 
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jetpixx
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:12 am

I am a big fan of DL - I did not enjoy my connection in DFW. They will be scaling back that hub, possibly severely. It might even be scaled back so far that it only resembles a 'focus city'. SLC is going nowhere, as that is the only major hub west of the Mississippi and gateway to states such as Idaho, Montana, Utah, etc. which depend heavily on DL's service. I'd love to see SLC-FLL flights instituted, as usually when I fly to Montana or even Seattle sometimes, it requires a flight through ATL and SLC. SLC has flights to MCO, but nowhere else in FL. In any event, the DFW hub would/will not be missed if that is the major announcement. But do not hope for it to expand - with their current financial state, that simply is not in the cards. I would expect a lot of new services in and out of MCO and ATL with the RJs left over from ASA and a loss of a lot of cities in TX as a result. Maybe some can stay on with N/S to ATL, but it is doubtful for places like AMA, CRP and LBB. Look for those travellers to be back with CO through IAH.
 
syncmaster
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:57 am

My opinion.....

First of all I wouldn't plan on major cutbacks in ATL or CVG, CVG seems to be holding up fairly strong, I flew through there last Sunday and all of my flights (ACA and Mainline 738) where booked solid. I think CVG in terms of a hub could have some potential for DL in the long run. ATL is not going anywhere for the obvious reasons.

DFW I could see getting scaled down with help on that coming from CO and IAH, I do feel it wouldn't be good for DFW as an airport because AA might as well get the whole airport then.

I see maybe some additions to SLC as DL really does need that West Coast hub and honestly where else could they really go? SLC is close enough the the center of the country as well as the West Coast that it could be of huge benefit to DL. In my eyes anyways DL doesn't seem to have as strong a West Coast presence as AA or UA. Although not as bad as US' presence (now even better with the UA codeshare) it could definitely use some work.

Am I right? I don't know...It's just my opinion.
 
dsuairptman
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:06 am

Maybe their ATL room mate FL will take over some of their DFW gates, now that would a good result out of this issue.
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
RogerThat
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:35 am

I hope they bring back the DC-8. The world needs more 4 holers.
 
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ua2162
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:45 am

Cut back DFW? Bad idea! Sure, let's run everything through ATL! One thunder storm can cripple your whole network! In my opinion, they should scale back ATL and run more flights through DFW. More options equals more PAX!
 
AA737-823
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:34 pm

...Except that Delta has been losing money at DFW for nigh unto a decade now. At least, that's the word from the armchari CEO's here at a.net.

I wish I could see them rebuild their fortress here. That used to be the big thing- my dad worked for AA, but most of my friends flew Delta. Now, living in Dallas, the automatic assumption is that you're a triple plutonium AAdvangate member.

R
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:43 pm

"Except that Delta has been losing money at DFW for nigh unto a decade now. At least, that's the word from the armchari CEO's here at a.net. "

That wasn't true in the recent past. I can't find the report on the website anymore, but in 2002 or 2003, there was a Delta Connection report which clearly stated that DFW became more viable thanks to the downgrade from mainline to RJs.

That may not be true now... I'll try to find the report and link it.

EDIT: Here's the link:

http://www.delta.com/pdfs/delta_connection/dcc.pdf


[Edited 2004-08-25 05:49:03]
 
bartond
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:58 pm

If they've been profitable with the scale down at DFW, then why are they running 3 767s and atleast 1-2 757s to DFW now? Just curious as only about 2 months ago the lone sizeable plane was a 763 to ATL.

Basically - what the HELL is Delta doing/going to do at DFW?
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:03 pm


Don't know. I know that BOS-DFW-LAX was upgraded to a 757 and the ANC (via SLC) is a 762 now. I guess the pax numbers justify it.
 
texdravid
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:06 pm

Delta's on again off again, schizophrenic treatment of DFW symbolizes everything wrong about Delta.

Their management style is haphazard at best. They are going down unless someone brings them up by their bootstraps.

They cannot live on ATL alone...
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
nealcg
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:29 pm

Terrific...in the future if I want to fly to DFW from SEA I'm probably either in a DL/ASA CR7 or forced to fly AA. GREEEAAATTTT......
REMEMBER...NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO...THERE YOU ARE !!
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:50 pm

In my eyes anyways DL doesn't seem to have as strong a West Coast presence as AA or UA.


You wouldn't say that if you used SLC as your main gateway. DL and WN or the carriers of choice to get from SLC to just about anywhere in the western US (that includes DL connection flights).


If we're talking mainline only, DL still has a better western presence than AA.
 
NWDC10
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:13 pm

I'd just sell off DFW and consentrate on ATL, CVG AND SLC. Build where i'm strong (er) then really work hard to keep strong what i have left. Robert NWDC10
 
drerx7
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:39 pm

Well from my armchair CEO position--it looks as though Delta would probably benefit more from strengthening the SLC and CVG hubs and keep DFW a focus city; lost DFW service will be routed via Skyteam at IAH. I've also heard that they are scaling back SLC--what the hell is Delta doing? It looks like a debacle shaping up in Atlanta.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
ord
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:47 pm

How about a trip down Memory Lane? Here's an old press release Delta issued in September, 1989. The 239 flights mentioned are all Delta mainline.


DISTRIBUTION: TO BUSINESS DESK AND AVIATION EDITORS
LENGTH: 178 words
HEADLINE: DELTA SETS ALL-TIME RECORD IN BOARDING AT DFW
DATELINE: DALLAS/FORT WORTH, Texas, Sept. 6
BODY:
DALLAS/FORT WORTH, Texas, Sept. 6, /PRN/ -- Delta Air
Lines (NYSE: DAL) continues to set boarding records at Dallas/Fort
Worth International Airport as the airline set a new all-time record
here during the month of August.
The new record of 636,462 passengers boarding Delta flights
at DFW shattered the old record of 602,000 passengers set just two
months ago in June 1989. The August 1989 record was up nearly 25
percent over the August 1988 total.
"Delta has set boarding records at DFW each month for well
over one year as our dramatic growth here continues," said Henry
Conley, Delta's district director - marketing. "Not only are more
people flying Delta at DFW than ever before, but Delta is offering
passengers more than ever -- more flights to more destinations, as
well as more convenience and more space in our expanded 'Easy
Street' facilities at Terminal 4E."
Delta now operates 239 flights daily at DFW with nonstop
service to 62 destinations.


[Edited 2004-08-25 15:47:55]

[Edited 2004-08-25 15:48:54]

[Edited 2004-08-25 15:50:10]

[Edited 2004-08-25 15:50:45]
 
PlaneGuy27
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:47 pm

Great post ORD

If DL closes DFW and relies on IAH and MEM for SkyTeam connections in that region you have to think that between DTW, CLE and CVG -- Cleveland could be downsized as well!

 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:50 pm


If DL closes DFW and CO closes CLE then I'm pretty sure the government will have to step in and rethink the approval of the three way alliance. Sounds like a little bit of collusion to me!
 
jrlander
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:39 am

Of course if DL and CO both close hubs, then the government might be more willing to allow the alliance to get closer. Opening up so much space at DFW could allow a so called LCC to move in and give AA more competition.

 
drerx7
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:24 am

COs CLE ops are not affected by DL at DFW--CO is not the one in financial problems with a hub--at least to the point of scaledowns. CO and DL are still separate entities--CLE is already majority ERJ anyway.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:54 am

so, now that we appear to be in a general agreement, its time for us armchair CEOs to step in and discuss which cities will stay and which will go.

I say FLL and LAX for sure...maybe move JFK back to mainline...
So, I'd say that for sure: FLL, LAX, CVG, LGA, JFK, ATL, MCO, maybe ABQ and STL, with RJ service to IAH, MEM, MSP, ORD, OKC, CLE, AUS, SAT, ELP and DTW.
Do they fly to SFO and BOS? If so, I'd bet those stay as well.
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:08 am


Drerx7 - the statement was made about COs CLE ops being possibly closed. If that happened and DL got rid of DFW, then it is anti-competitive. CO will codeshare their ops on DL's CVG while DL will codeshare on COs IAH. That gives them an unfair advantage over other airlines. Why do you think that government asked them to give up gates at their non-hub airports to competitors in order to approve the 3-way alliance.

Yes, they are separate companies, but they would be using the "you scratch my back" mentality for each's underperforming hubs.
 
jae172
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:48 am

What about one of the LCC to come in to DFW to compete more with southwest? Even though southwest flies out of Dallas love one of the LCC carriers could match there schedule and fares and get the gate space at DFW.

Just a thought.
 
N839MH
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:00 am

As for DFW, look for the hub to be reclassified as a "bridge city".

Here is what it might look like....

DFW-JFK,BOS,CVG,ATL,MCO(SONG),LAS(SONG),LAX,SFO & SEA(SONG).

Just a thought....and some big cuts with DCI....also, maybe upto 1,500 layoffs
the later more of a rumor.
Solodude!
 
squirrel83
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:00 am

THANK YOU ORD for the news update I was getting a little scared there for AA's sake . .
A346, 7E7, 747, 777, Sonic Cruiser
 
B4REAL
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:26 am

I almost think scaling down DFW would be the most opportune time to sell ASA.

Keep DFW as a focus-city, having one major departure window bank to BOS, SEA, LGA, MCO, LAS, SFO, LAX, All of that in coordination with the routes to ATL, CVG, and SLC.

Keep some DL connection (comair) to MSY, IAH/HOU, and maybe SAT and AUS.

I really like N839mh's suggestion of introducing song to DFW. The routes suggested are great ideas, probably so great because I bet you are a DL insider  Smile

Gone are the 3x or 4x daily DFW-AUS on DL  Sad
B4REAL
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ERJ170
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:34 am

So does everyone think that the ASA RDU-DFW 3x daily willl be dropped? Perhaps it will be shifted to SLC if dropped? What's the popular opinion?
Aiming High and going far..
 
B4REAL
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:41 am

ERJ170:

If they chop up DFW as much as rumored here, I would not count on DFW-RDU being anything more that CR7 1x daily.

I would not hold my breath on SLC-RDU to pick up the slack. Look for fortification of ATL megafortress and CVG beauty-hub.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:46 am

perhaps the 11 daily to ATL will be upgraded to 767's... With the drop of the 3 CRJ200, those pax have to go through somewhere...
Aiming High and going far..
 
B4REAL
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:50 am

The dailies to ATL (I'm assuming RDU-ATL) would maybe get a slight bump. I think it takes a lot to convince DL to run a 767 on a 356 mile route. I believe ATL-JAX is shorter than that, but Florida is proven DL territory coming from the North via ATL, and RDU does well, but the 757 probably serves the market best. I'd bet you see a few of the MD-80s dropped and 738s or 738-shuttles brought in to give more seats. DFW-RDU is only 150 seats daily, probably only about 80 of them full, and I would bet there are at least 80 empty seats RDU-ATL and RDU-CVG daily.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
B4REAL
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:53 am

SPECULATION SPECULATION SPECULATION.....

The more I think of it, I bet this is part of the rumored sale of ASA and Comair. There are many venues (especially the small Texas towns) that are to/from DFW in the Delta Connection network that do not go elsewhere, they could just absorb them in CO codeshare, or abandon the market completely as American Eagle or CO Express likely already flies there.....

GG said he doesn't like RJs...
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:54 am

Hmm.. okay.. sounds good to me! Whatever happens, I just hope that all the airlines make it out okay.. and each find their own niche!

I think it is cool when they sub Song flights into RDU.. it's a cool change!
Aiming High and going far..
 
B4REAL
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:56 am

ERJ170:

Is that the case on the song a/c substitutions? I've seen a song a/c @ a DL flight gate in ATL going to LGA or some other non-song route. Similar to using the shuttle 738 config.

When that happens, is it a Delta cabin crew or a song cabin crew?
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:08 am

yeah.. it's just an a/c sub.. not a real Song flight.. recently, it has happened about once or twice a week.. but only for the last 3 weeks or so.. I"m sure it's short term or stopped already.

I'm not sure what crew it is.. I always see it flying overhead while I'm driving on the interstate...
Aiming High and going far..
 
B4REAL
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:10 am

That would be a cool substitution. In my market, I'm just waiting for a 738 subsitution from the 732. I don't know what I'd do with a song 757!

I wonder, though, DFW does not really get that many 757s, so I am starting to wonder if song would be a good fit....

There would be a lot of liberated 738s and MD-80s, and MD-90s, however.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:18 am

it is pretty cool.. just wish we could see them in permanently to a cool destination.. they could pick up the old RDU-SJC that AA dropped..

RDU-SJC 1x dialy
RDU-TPA 1x daily

it could work! maybe.. possibly.. perhaps..
Aiming High and going far..
 
RogerThat
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:54 am

I like N839mh Song idea, but I would take it one step further:

Turn DFW into an all Song and RJ mini-hub. Connect up with 4 to 5 flights a day the big east coast and west coast cities with Song's everyday low prices. They will be the leisure and price-sensitive business travelers first choice.

AA aain't going to like it, but sometimes you just got to get crazy to get anywhere.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:57 am

they could pick up the old RDU-SJC that AA dropped..


AA never dropped it. Advanced bookings were so bad they never started it.
a.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:58 am

Hehehee...

Oops.. I meant SJU.. not SJC.. my bad...
Aiming High and going far..
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta DFW Announcement

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:00 pm

Hehehee...

Oops.. I meant SJU.. not SJC.. my bad...


Delta wouldn't fill even half a plane flying RDU-SJU.

American could do well on the route if it offered a weekend service like they do from STL. I'm a little surprised they dropped RDU-SJU instead of just making it a weekend service, because there is definitley a market.
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