rwylie77
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Why No Boeing 727's In Europe?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:53 pm

It is something I have observed for a while and confirmed this morning in Flight International's recent 'census' of airlines operating which aircraft - why are there so few Boeing 727's in Europe? They are in 7th place still for the most flown aircraft (A320 family 1st, 737-300,400,500 in second closely followed by 737-6/7/8/900) but there are only a HANDFUL few of these in Europe. Is there a reason for this?
 
BCAL
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RE: Why No Boeing 727's In Europe?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:10 pm

As a guess I would think that European noise regulations mean that for a 727 to operate within most European countries they must be hush-kited and the cost is too prohibitive for the airlines still operating this type.

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rwylie77
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RE: Why No Boeing 727's In Europe?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:26 pm

That could be it because the only 727's in Europe were in Eastern Europe...none in Western Europe.
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: Why No Boeing 727's In Europe?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:37 pm

That could be it because the only 727's in Europe were in Eastern Europe...,none in Western Europe .


Rwylie77: Lufthansa, Sabena, Iberia, Air France... all have had 727s in their fleets.

I think the reason why there are hardly any 727s in Europe is because of noise regulations and the fact that all the European airlines have replaced the 727 with 757s, 737s, A320s and other modern aircraft.

Even world wide, there are very few 727s flying now, the few which are, are mostly freighters.

DHL still operates freighter 727s in Europe, by the way.


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MEA-707
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RE: Why No Boeing 727's In Europe?

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:03 am

the 727 has never been that popular in Europe compared to the US... the loads on typical short-medium haul sectors have always been a bit smaller, so while ALL the US major airlines had huge fleets of 727s, the European airlines had Caravelles and later DC-9s and 737s and now A-320s.
In the US, just a few cargo airlines like DHL, UPS and especially FedEx still have dozens, as pax airliner it is as rare in the US as it is in Europe.
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SATL382G
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RE: Why No Boeing 727's In Europe?

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:08 am

Although the 727 was on its way out at the time, 9/11 pretty much
finished the passenger service career of the 727 here in the US...

One day they were here and the next they were gone, or so it seemed...

SATL382G
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SafetyDude
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RE: Why No Boeing 727's In Europe?

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:10 am

SATL382G got it. The 727s were going in both North America and Europe, with the exception to cargo companies, and are now all practically gone.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
rwylie77
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RE: Why No Boeing 727's In Europe?

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:17 am

I saw a load of United and Delta 727's parked in the desert when passing through Victorville VCV this June...
 
LVZXV
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RE: Why No Boeing 727's In Europe?

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:21 am

Go to Bolivia, Ecuador, Mexico, Peru or Venezuela instead. You won't be disappointed...  Big grin

XV

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cedarjet
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RE: Why No Boeing 727's In Europe?

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:25 am

Europe was certainly a strong market for the 727. THAT SAID, flying in Europe isn't the same as in the US - I don't know what the average flight times are, respectively, but in the US its probably two hours or more (Atlanta to NYC, Miami to Chicago, Dallas to LA all seem typical and they're all 2 hours +) and there's the Rockies etc to cross (hence the third engine on the seven two); whereas in Europe it's close to an hour, it's a much smaller area (London to Brussels, Paris to Berlin, Vienna to Helsinki, Madrid to Rome all seem typical and they're all one hour max) and it's flat. So while the 727 was popular over here (Lufthansa, Iberia, Alitalia, Olympic, Dan Air, SAS, Sterling, Sabena), the 737 was plenty of aircraft for the job. Think of it this way: the longest scheduled flight I know of is London to Athens, and that's only three hours, well within the range of any 737. The longest flight within the US is LA to NY which is nearly double (not that a 72 or 73 could make LA-NY nonstop without serious penalties). It's a completely different mission, which is why eventually the 737 became the dominant airliner within Europe.
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bennett123
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RE: Why No Boeing 727's In Europe?

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:24 am

One place that you might still see B727 is Malta.

When I was there in 2002, Libyan used to fly in. They also operated F28's.

Luqa is also a good airport for spotters.
 
PKK
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RE: Why No Boeing 727's In Europe?

Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:32 pm

Correction!
DHL no longer operates 72's in Europe. The occasional 72 might show up in BRU for maintenance but then only fly in and out during day time. DHL made a commitment to the Belgian government to stop 72 night OPS in/out of BRU by the end of 2003. All 72's has now been redeployed, sold, scrapped or donated away.

Here's what happened to the last 16:

OO-DHK Flying in Australia
OO-DHM Flying in Latin America
OO-DHN Airframe scrapped
OO-DHO Flying in Indonesia
OO-DHP Airframe scrapped in Latin America
OO-DHQ Flying in Latin America
OO-DHR Still in storage at Lasham, UK
OO-DHS Donated to WAN at Charleroi Airport
OO-DHT Donated to KHBO in Oostende, BE (Briefly reg in Spain as EC-IDQ)
OO-DHU Flying in Latin America
OO-DHV Now operated by Swiftair
OO-DHW Still in storage at Southend, UK
OO-DHX Now operated by Swiftair
OO-DHY Now operated by Swiftair
OO-DHZ Flying in Latin America
OO-DLB Flying in Australia

(source: EAT's internal magazine "Linkupdate")

So if one is near you....... Take a pic !
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gerardo
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RE: Why No Boeing 727's In Europe?

Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:47 pm

Photo taken some weeks back:
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This aircraft was operating for Swiftair out of ZRH (I guess) for a short period of time. As far as I know, it has been taken out of service again.

Listening to her take offs, one can only dream away......

Gerardo
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FlySSC
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RE: Why No Boeing 727's In Europe?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:33 am

MEA-707,

The B727 was a great aircraft and was popular and widely operated by most of the big European airlines, beside their Caravelle, MD or B737 fleet : Air France, Alitalia, Iberia, TAP, Lufthansa, Olympic Airways, JAT, etc...

Air France started operating its first B727 (F-BOJA) on April 15th 1968 and operated the type until early 1993 ! 25 years of very reliable operation is quite important !

I think IBERIA was the last big regular European airline to operate the B727 until just few years ago.

Though not a European Airline, Air Algérie , AFAIK, are the last scheduled airline to operate the B727 to/from France.


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wing
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RE: Why No Boeing 727's In Europe?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:49 am

727 's are banned to fly from the European airspace unless they are Stage 3 hush kitted.Until year 2000 they were not allowed to fly after 8 PM and after that(I'm not certain with the year but should be around 2000) not allowed at any time.My father was a 727 captain and they sold their airplanes and switced type to MD-88 and 737-400.
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RayChuang
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RE: Why No Boeing 727's In Europe?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:24 am

It used to be that 727's were quite common in Europe because they were perfect for the type of high-frequency operations common there.

However, with stricter noise regulations and the sheer wear on the 727 airframes, they've been pretty much replaced by CFM56-powered 737's and A319/A320 planes since the late 1980's.