Leskova
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CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:27 am

Just heard this on the radio: according to it's President, Alitalia has about 20 days left to find a solution to it's financial crisis - if a solution is not found until 15 September, they would be forced into involuntary administration.

During the summer months, Alitalia had about 17 million euros less revenues than expected.

I haven't found any links in English yet - here's a report in German:
http://www.welt.de/data/2004/08/24/323611.html
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Horus
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:41 am

I genuinely hope Alitalia make it through this 'rough patch'.

Horus

EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
N774UA
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:20 am

I hope they keep on flying. I am flying with them in september.

N774UA
...follow his instructions, switch off at the stand.
 
mozart
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:25 am

Oh god, please let's not have another Swissair-like debacle with a great name going under...
 
ThomasCook
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:38 am

Hi,

This is awful news. I hope for the sake of Alitalia and all their employees that a solution can be found. Good luck to them!

Regards
ThomasCook
A380 Crew
 
Stratofish
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:08 am

Sounds odd to me... I'd reckon that payments were due at the end of a month...??

Probably just a despicable try to put more pressure on the unions to accept the slashing of a few thousand jobs.
And another proof that the least we Europeans need is a (so called) "consolidated air market".
Let's hope things will improve when Mrs. de Palacio leaves office next month. (unlikely  Sad )
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
backfire
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:18 am

"We hope to avoid a serious clash," said Fabio Berti, head of the pilots' union, told Dow Jones Newswires, but added that his group was willing to go on strike if necessary.


The 'Sabena Strategy' to getting your airline out of trouble.

Well, Mr Berti, you'd better be quick or you won't have an airline over which to go on strike.
 
AA777DFW
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:15 am

I hope they won't go down! Alitalia has such a beautiful livery,


good luck to them!

 
scotron11
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:10 pm

If AZ did go bust, who or what would replace them? VirginAzzura? A possible merger? With who? AF&KLM?

Maybe they should liquidate and start again from scratch, sort of like SR!
 
HB-IWC
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:29 pm

Maybe they should liquidate and start again from scratch, sort of like SR!

SR's restart hasn't been much of a success-story, has it? I doubt they would go for a scenario of continual decline and downsizing. Better go for a complete tabula rasa and start over the SN-way.

 
QIguy24
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:39 pm

SR are doing terrible!!

I would rather see them like SN then. But I still wonder why the heck they can't control their economy??? SAS has recently and finally gotten control of their economy. And it was the toughest time ever for SAS. But they managed to do it. So why can't Alitalia do the same???

Edit: And if it is because they are afraid that the personell will go on strike. Well, lets just do this then. Fire their asses and employ others who are interested in the existence of the company. That was the strategy SAS was running.

[Edited 2004-08-25 07:41:29]
 
HB-IWC
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:28 pm

The threat of massive strikes is very real. Alitalia is notorious for overstaffing and low productivity, and its unions are just as notorious for their unwillingess to cooperate in any corrective action. Alitalia's Unions are likely some of the last representatives of a sydicalism of times long gone by. Their counterparts at Air France and Iberia seem to have better understood the realities of the new dynamics of the airline industry. And look at how Air France and Iberia, once the struggling members of the European aviation scene, are doing today...

 
JGPH1A
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:15 pm

AZ need to start over from scratch, split out their domestic operation (ATI, anyone ?), focus on building a true single-type long haul fleet out of dual hubs (MXP, FCO - unfortunately, MXP sucks but they're stuck with it). They need to restart operations to Latin America and Australia, focussing on high--end business routes.

The Italian state needs to intervene in the ground handling arrangments in both airports. SEA and Aeroporti di Roma are both extremely inefficient as well, which slows down the AZ operation. Where necessary AZ should take over and run its own ground handling operations - the customer-facing ones anyway (they own the systems after all anyway).

AZ need to join an Alliance, any alliance - but until they get themselves sorted out, nobody will touch them.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Matterhorn
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:33 pm

"AZ need to join an Alliance, any alliance "


AZ is in Sky Team.
is it likely, that any Skyteam member will send some financial aid to Alitalia?
Last Flight: BSL-AMS on EZY, Next Flight: ZRH-LHR on LX
 
7LBAC111
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:45 pm

I'm going to buck the trend and suggest that Alitalia be allowed to fail
My reasons are that the airline has been unprofitable for ages, they have been bailed out by the government time and time again, they go on strike persistently and the staff tend to be very unhelpful (from a travel agent's perspective)

Italy should learn from this, dissolve Alitalia, and let a new name show the Italians how a national airline should be run.

Mark
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
stall
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:52 pm

Italy need a new national airline.

This one is simply to expensive for the country and the customers.

Staff and management need to understand that they have to change !!!

If they don't change their attitude, customers are going to use other airlines on both domestic and international flights.

As simple as that.
Flying is fun
 
DeltaWings
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:58 pm

Didnt AZ just order new ERJ-170s? Instead of fixing their fleet to their wishes, they should save money but lower their prices and offer more. Theyd get out of trouble soon.

DeltaWings
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sabenapilot
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:12 pm

Backfire,

You refer to the 'Sabena Strategy' when you attack the threat to strike at AZ from the Pilot Unions, yet you clearly failed to understand the strategy used at Sabena.

It seems the only thing the management and the majority shareholders of SN (at that time: SR and the Belgian Government) did well during those last months of 2001 was to spread the image of pilots going on strike without anysound reason and thus finishing of their own company.

Exactly the opposite was true!

The SN pilots were the only ones which saw the problems coming (SR was due to give SN additional financing according to an agreement signed a few months earlier, but all signs were there to believe the Swiss were not going to honour their financial obligations. Since the money was needed the same day it was supposed to be paid to pay back a loan, any delay in the payment from the Swiss would mean immediate bankruptcy of SN!) In order to FORCE the Belgian government to make contingency plans and look for alternative funding to avoid bankruptcy, we rang the alarm bell, yet were not heart, hence we went on strike to get public attention to this mismanagement of the Belgian government.

We were publicly called incompetent, foolish, crazy, and even economic kamikaze terrorists by Rik Daems, the minister responsible for Sabena at that time, which claimed SR was gong to honor all their financial obligations and that we had no clue.

Of course, the evening before the payment was due, SR faxed a lettre to the board of SN shareholders stating they were NOT going to pay and SN had no contingency plan for the next day, so they had to file for bankruptcy protection....

The rest is history, but you see, things are not always like they appear...
I would therefore prefer you not to refer to the Sabena strategy so lightly.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:19 pm

Sabenapilot,

hence we went on strike to get public attention to this mismanagement of the Belgian government.


But being in the situation SN where in towards the end of 2001, didn't anyone have the foresight to realise that any strike was only going to be the final nail in the coffin for Sabena, irrespective of the loan payment being made?

IMO, and I admit I may not know the facts, but striking when your employer is on the brink of collapse is, well, just a little foolish.

Mark


[Edited 2004-08-25 14:20:53]
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
lumumba
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:22 pm

Hi, sabenapilot.
It's maybe a simple explanation but the pilots(not only sabena) are making stikes without any regards to the other workers.Also at Sabena .This is not a way to do I yhink.A company is somthing together or not.
Regards
Patrice
 
Andreas
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:06 pm

Let it die... as simple as that.

AZ has proven repeatedly that it not able to sort out its structural weaknesses, that they heavily rely on the Italian government, that is, on the Italian taxpayer, and I'm not quite sure if the Italian taxpayers are actually happy to pay again and again for AZ to survive.

Besides other morbid industries might find the idea to be financed by others very attractive, too, and start complaining. Don't let that happen, let AZ die!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
slider
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:49 pm

I genuinely hope Alitalia make it through this 'rough patch'.

As Andreas alluded to above, the problem is that AZ's "rough patch" has lasted the better part of a few decades...my personal affinity for them aside, they're a disgustingly mismanged carrier, akin to a government bureaucracy, that has had a revolving door at CEO for far too long. Their MXP move was a perfect example of this mismanagement, among other things.

They've seen charter carriers cannibalize their Italian leisure markets and they've responded as quickly as a sloth.

The good citizens of Italy deserve better. Enough of the entire 'state-run' airline construct. Fish or cut bait. Live or die, but make up your mind. Best of luck to them, but the status quo is not sustainable.
 
LX001
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:53 pm

They will never be able to change into positive! Every little change turns into a strike. Think about the past. Their employees don´t understand the situation. Times are more difficult now, but they keep on living in the "economical past". No airline in the world is so overstuffed on the one hand and so unproductive on the other hand. Sorry, but maybe it´s better to make a total new start?!

[Edited 2004-08-25 15:57:55]
 
Unique
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:49 am

All you aviation experts out there:

In Italy, it is far from easy to just sack staff and hire new ones! The law just doesn't allow it! At least two years salary has to be compensated when somebody is sacked. Money AZ simply doesn't have!

I'm afraid they have to try and do it with the existing staff...
 
stall
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:06 am

Union can go on strike as much they want. If no customers fly with Alitalia the company will cease to exist. Period.
Flying is fun
 
Andreas
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:11 am

Interesting!

So they have a classical catch 22: The current staff has proven again and again that they are not capable to adapt to the desperate situation of their employer, so they have to change the situation...sounds like disaster waiting to happen very soon!

What happens if AZ doesn't have any money left? I mean they can sue as much as they like but if there is nothing there...I'm afraid AZ is one of those dinosaurs that are basically long gone but one that refuses to accept its own death. As an Italian taxpayer I'd go apeshit!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
boo25
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:16 am

I'm sorry and i wish good luck to all of the staff, but AZ has continually failed to restructure, is trying to fly in the face of denial of the real situation out there , and relies heavily on handouts to survive.

You cannot run an airline like this in 2004 .
Their arrogance may have cost them the entire company.

Perhaps the best solution is to fold and reform..............
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:33 am

@unique:

What does the Italian law say about unemployment benefit in case of bankruptcy? The government would probably have to pay for them, and that's the only obstacle that keeps them from pulling the plug I suppose (as AZ management and the government are so cosily intertwined).

My suggestion: put the airline out of its misery, pull the plug, and start from scratch, please!
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
slider
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:29 am

@unique:

What does the Italian law say about unemployment benefit in case of bankruptcy? The government would probably have to pay for them, and that's the only obstacle that keeps them from pulling the plug I suppose (as AZ management and the government are so cosily intertwined).

My suggestion: put the airline out of its misery, pull the plug, and start from scratch, please!


You beat me to the punch...I was just going to ask that. If firing an employee has that egregious of a severance package (which is insane, BTW), I wonder what kind of consequence it would be to just shut 'er down and build new.

Of course, they'd have to have startup capital, which goes back to the circular argument of them being a state-run airline. Either way, the taxpayers are getting rammed on this one and have been for some time.
 
ETStar
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Surviv

Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:13 am

Maybe it is time that Alitalia does go through real restructuring and re-emerge as a strong, lean company. How much longer can its uncertainties go on/
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:20 am

Yippie, only 19 days left till AZ planes never will fly again !!
I`m not against AZ but if it is true and not just bluff from the CEO, it is the right way to close AZ. The company would never able to earn profits so why keep it. There are other companies who can take over the AZ business.
B-717/722/737-200/300/400/500/600/700/800/900/B-747-100/200/400/SP/8i/B-752/3/B-762/3/4/B-772/LR/300ER/B-788/DC-10-10/30/L-1011-1/500/MD-81/82/83/90/A-319/320/321/AB6/312/313/332/333/342/343/346/359/388/TU154/IL-18/ATR-42/72/DH4/DH3/E145/E170/190/CR2/7/9
 
LJ
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:38 am

Anyone seriously thinking AZ will go bust??? I personally think that it will be a hard battle but in the end "someting" will be worked out (someting similar to Olympic Airways/Airlines) at the last moment. In the end the pride of Italy is at stake and thus the president himself will probably give the AZ employees the correct incentives to agree to the restructuring plan. If not, then the CEO must do what he said and let AZ put to sleep.
 
Andreas
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:49 pm

Delta: Actually I find it a bit ....misplaced, to celebrate the going belly-up of a company...in the end it means unemployment, tons of cost and an abhorrent proof of how inefficient capital markets can be!


Lj: No, I don't actually think AZ will indeed go belly-up, since too many personal interest are at stake here...unfortunately it will be a solution that doesn't hold for a longtime...this time it was around 2-3 months since their last "refinancing".

In the end it will be clear that a few people will decide that AZ remains the problem of the Italian taxpayer for good, so they'll keep on paying for AZ's losses, no matter what EU has to say in this ugly affair.

AF buying AZ?? You must be dreaming (whoever said that), they'd be completely insane...it's disaster waiting to happen again and again, why would they want that now that they grabbed KLM successfully.
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
JCS
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:24 pm

What will survive: AZ or this topic?

I think it is really a 'sensation remark' of this CEO. He likes to say that AZ is in big risk.
 
aamd11
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:45 am

I heard on the BBC today that Alitalia will run out of cash on around the 15th of September. Apparantly AZ is expected to lose over 500 million Euros or something this year, and it has already lost in excess of 300m so far.

I'd suggest to the Italians, if they are going to take any action, they start from a regional kind of platform as SN did. Rely on SkyTeam for international traffic.
 
EZEIZA
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:48 am

According to Italian press, AZ only has 72mill€ left, enough to pay September salaries. Doesn't look good ... I hope they can make it
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
NightFlier
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CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:56 am

According to RAI International Alitalia is laying off 7000 thousand employees for one month so they can restructure the airline. Alitalia also claims that they need to cut back the price on there tickets. We will just have to see what happens we have one month.  Wink/being sarcastic
Airplanes are only as good as the people who fly&fix them.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive

Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:09 pm

From ATW:

Alitalia reported a net loss of eur329 million ($400.7 million) for the first half of 2004 and warned that it will post a loss for the full year that will be close to the eur519 million net loss it registered in 2003 "unless the changes set out in the industrial plan are brought about."

The airline said its liquidity stood at eur72 million at the end of July, which is sufficient to last only until the end of Sept., making it even more crucial for the carrier to reach agreements with its unions.
However, despite threats by the Italian government that it will not grant a promised eur400 million bridging loan and will put Alitalia into administration if it fails to obtain an accord by Sept. 15, management and unions have not been able to reach agreement on the group's new restructuring plan.

Up to this point, few details of the plan have been released and unions on Monday called on Chairman and CEO Giancarlo Cimoli to present his full business plan, including redundancies and restructuring. Italian media have reported that up to a third of the roughly 20,000 Alitalia employees could be laid off, yet management has never confirmed or denied that number.


http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=4501
I scratch my head, therefore I am.

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