QF744
Topic Author
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Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:12 am

I was just reading the press release about SQ ordering the 773ER and noted that they are retiring their 744s..

On certain routes, would SQ not be better keeping the 744s (eg SYD-SIN, SIN-LHR etc)... i mean these flights do have good loads, so why drop the size of the plane... surely this will dent their annual profits?

i'm sure QF could do with a few of the 744s!

Also, SQ have canned the Airbus and Boeing proposals for regional routes!

here is the part of the press release..

"The order reinforces SIA's standing as the biggest customer for the Boeing
777. SIA presently flies fifty-five B777s, and has another four B777s on
firm order. With this latest order, the number of B777s in the SIA fleet
will eventually reach seventy-seven units.

"The B777-300ER, seating about 350 passengers and with a range of 7,000 nm, will be deployed on SIA's long-haul and medium-haul routes. The new order will allow SIA to achieve capacity growth of between 4 and 6 per cent a
year. At the same time, it will maintain SIA's fleet as one of the industry
's youngest, as the B747-400 is progressively retired.

"SIA had also sought proposals from manufacturers for suitable aircraft to
operate on its regional routes. The manufacturers offered the Airbus
A330-200 and the new Boeing 7E7 for evaluation. SIA has decided not to
place any order for the regional aircraft because the proposals submitted
did not meet SIA's financial criteria. The airline will continue to use the
B777-200 to serve the regional routes.
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE UPPER DECK
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:17 am

SQ are only retiring their oldest B744s at the moment so SQ will be keeping a good amount of B744s
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FriendlySkies
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:18 am

SQ wants to keep a very young fleet. They also get more commonality/cheaper costs with the 773ERs they just ordered. Those 744s will be picked up by other carriers, they still have a good 15 years left in 'em I believe.
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:19 am

On certain routes, would SQ not be better keeping the 744s (eg SYD-SIN, SIN-LHR etc)
The A380 would be much better on those routes.  Big grin

"as the B747-400 is progressively retired"
The oldest 744s are leaving soon, although the keyword is "progressively", meaning that tomorrow morning, the 744s are not going to be gone (they will most likely be retired as the 380s and 773ERs come).

-Will
Edited to add an "e" on what was "thos"

[Edited 2004-08-26 04:20:40]
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
NWAFA
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:28 am

Gosh it must be nice to be subsidized by a country.
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United Airline
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:14 pm

MOST of them will stay for a while. They are only replacing the oldest B 747-400s. NOT THE ENTIRE FLEET FOR A WHILE!

If Boeing builds a B 747 Advanced, again, I am sure they will order some, let's say 25-30.
 
Carpethead
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:32 pm

With the number of A380 and 773ERs on order, they will be retiring the 744 progressively. A380 will take-over the highest capacity routes such as SIN-LHR/NRT/SYD and increase frequencies to places where there aren't slot controlled airports with 773ER/772ER.

Perhaps pax version will be gone by 2010, which the newest 744 will be 8/9 years old. Remember this is a carrier that a 10-year old plane is old. For a certain red/silver colored US carrier that's still like fresh-off the line.
 
7673mech
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:46 pm

NWAFA:
The fact that they are government subsidized has nothing to do with it.
They are well run and efficient. Their fleet is well maintained and their employees are highly motivated. When SARS hit their government didn't bail them out, they made the tough cuts necessary to sustain a viable concern

Historically, Singapore turns over its fleet regularly. They do this to keep costs down ... higher resale values, not having to pay for more expensive heavier checks ... etc.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:59 pm

NWAFA:

As a SQ employee, I can assure you SQ is not subsidized! It is 57% owned by a holding company that is controlled by the Singapore government. However, there is no money from the government. In fact, the flow seems to be from SIA to the gov't in the form of dividends.

SIA has always had a young fleet. In fact, NWA bought some of our old 747F freighters if I'm not mistaken and they are some of the youngest classics in the NWA fleet.

Fly fast, live slow
 
lutfi
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:46 pm

Highly motivated...? Lol. So why are so many of the SQ managers resigning at the moment...
 
bill142
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:34 pm

SQ is a well run company with alot of cash. To the best of my knowlege in the entire time they have been operating they have only ever once posted a loss and that was in 2002 or 2003 and was mainly caused by the effects of SARS.
 
hkg82
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:10 pm

"Gosh it must be nice to be subsidized by a country."

This statement can be applied to Emirates Airlines, not Singapore Airlines. Look at EK's aircraft order plans for the next decade, their products & route expansion. That's oil money for ya!

Hkg82.
 
na
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:40 pm

The earliest 744s of SIA are now 15 years old and I believe with the xception of the airline´s beginnings they never had any aircraft which they kept for so long.
I also expect the 744 pax aircraft to be gone from SIAs fleet by 2010 completely.
Be sure that by then the first 20 or so 777s of SIA will be retired as well btw. That´s just SIA policy, they´re always the no.1 forerunners (threatened here by Emirates and Virgin nowadays)
 
fraspotter
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:51 pm

According to this website airfleets.net the AVERAGE age of SIA 747's is 8 years.

http://www.airfleets.net/ageflotte/?file=calcop&opp=Singapore%20Airlines
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ZKSUJ
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:08 pm

Who are buying up the 744's being retired? Are NZ going to get their hands on a couple of them? I feel that the NZ 747 fleet is a bit stretched.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:46 pm

Yes the NZ 744 fleet is highly utilized but I don't think they will want any more with the new 772 fleet arriving starting next year and those SQ 744's are P/W powered and NZ already operate GE and RR so I don't think they will want to add another engine type. That said as much as I would love them to get more 744's.

Sad to see SQ retiring the 744 pax aircraft but atleast they will be around for another 6-7 years yet.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:54 pm

Thanks for clearing it up NBT
 
na
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:04 pm

NZ no way. They have already a small, but odd 744 fleet powered by RRs and GEs. SIAs 744s have PW-engines.

SIAs early 744s which are currently withdrawn from the fleet are going or have gone to Air Atlanta/Iberia, Air India, Cathay Pacific and Dragonair. That are the known takers at the moment. Air Atlanta will most likely take more when the now 22 years-plus ex NZ/CX-742s need to be replaced in the next years. I could see NWA take some, and probably El Al in the form of SFs. And midterm all the airlines who operate aging classic freighters and pax-aircraft. Atlas, Evergreen, Kalitta, Polar, and so on.
 
changyou
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:15 pm

As a cabin crew for SQ...I'm glad that SQ decided to get rid of the 744s. They have so much problem with the cabin and galleys thus opening up complains to passengers...Geez...All hands raise for the 777-300ER!!
 
Ex_SQer
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:08 am

Carpethead is correct: The current thinking is that it is more profitable to operate more frequent point-to-point services with smaller aircraft. Hence, 772s and 773ERs will be deployed on those routes where slots and bilaterals allow higher frequency of service. The A380's niche is high density routes where slots and/or bilaterals do not allow extra frequencies, or where desirable landing and takeoff slots are hard to come by.

I hate to break this to the people who want the 744s to stay for a while, but my understanding is that the current plan is to phase them out completely; target phaseout date is around 2007 or so. Also, no passenger versions of the 744 Advanced are currently under serious consideration.


As a SQ employee, I can assure you SQ is not subsidized!

Philsquares is correct. The only direct government assistance is in the form of loan guarantees.


[Edited 2004-08-26 22:20:30]
 
elcapi1980
Posts: 204
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:03 am

I was trying to get how old are those DC9- from northwest, but they are not listed. does anybody know this?...
I love you barranquilla!!!!!
 
United Airline
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RE: Why Are SQ Retiring Their 744s?

Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:23 am

Well nothing is official about the 100% retirement of the B 744s. At least not for now. So I guess they will stay for a while. At least the newer ones, not the oldest ones.

I am sure they will consider the B 747 Advanced when things become more SOLID. Right now, everything is still at planning stage. So I hope they will consider it one day.
 
TRENT500
Posts: 95
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744's At LHR

Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:32 am

Long live the 744's.
Airbus might be more practicle but look shite.
Long live Boeing.

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