JMV
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American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:12 am

Just came across this while reading another thread. This Robert Agnew of Morton Beyer & Agnew is proposing AA and UA merger.

http://www.speednews.com/stw/default.html See article titled "MBA: American Airlines Should Take Over United"

With all due respect to Mr. Agnew, it is my opinion that the merger of those two carriers would simply result in both going out of business. I don't think AA's financial condition from an ongoing operational standpoint is strong enough to absorb the failing financial situation at UA, not to mention taking on the additional merger-related costs associated with union contracts, seniority issues, disparity of equipment and redundancies of systems (which carry a cost to eliminate).

The only ones that would benefit from this merger would be the consultants that try to make it work, followed by the bankruptcy lawyers that would shut this CF down.
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nwcoflyer
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:16 am

JMV, You are right! This guy is crazy. AA couldn't absorb all of UA's debt and problems. It has peltny of it's own to get through.

Plus the government would never let it happen. It would be so anti-competitive. I honestly don't believe that this guy is serious.
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SHUPirate1
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:17 am

American + United = The US-based version of Aeroflot
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iowa744fan
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:24 am

Agreed, the government would never let this happen.

However, it is interesting to think about. The two systems surprisingly would fit somewhat well together. Obviously, ORD could be combined with UA. AA's next two main hubs of DFW and MIA are both in areas that UA does not have a significant presence. AA would finally have the Asia presence, and UA would have their larger European presence. Just imagine an ORD where almost all of the central terminal area (1, 2, 3) is one airline! Like I said, never going to happen. Just amusing to think about it a second. Perhaps this guy has been hanging out with Ricky Williams a bit recently!
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:30 am

Iowa-Think about all of the different fleet types too...

AA: S80, 738, 757, 762, 763, 300, 772
UA: 735, 319, 733, 320, 757, 762, 763, 772, 744

Anybody want to try to run such a convoluted operation? I don't think Bill Gates could successfully dip his entire life's savings into saving that one...
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artsyman
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:34 am

While I agree this wont happen, there has been plenty of talk of super mergers recently due to the fact that the current situation is unsustainable for virtually all airlines in the US. The government cannot help everyone, and if there is another 9.11 type attack, then none of the US carriers will survive it. Therefore, if the government is going to step in and do something to keep the existence of air travel going, it would be easier to work with less carriers. The network of UA/AA is large enough to do this, where as many of the others are not vast enough to cope with the entire country alone.
 
DIA
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:35 am

Combined, they would become the old Aeroflot of the U.S.S.R. with all the a/c varieties and the sheer # of a/c. Okay, much smaller than the old Aeroflot. . .but still very large.
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:23 am

If AA wants any part of UA, they'll purchase them before UA goes "Tango-Uniform" or wait in hopes of a discount price at a Chapter 7 liquidation auction.

There is no way that AA is interested in assuming UA's debt, contracts, and employees. This article is yet another shining example of how all the newly-minted Wharton or Thunderbird MBAs in the world don't know the first thing about running an airline
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ual777contrail
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:31 am

The only thing that would change is AA would then have some class, and be a real airline.

If the gov. wouldnt let UA/US merge, they wontlet UAL and AA merge.

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DIA
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:33 am

"There is no way that AA is interested in assuming UA's debt, contracts, and employees."

The "and employees" part I'm sure that all former TWA employees would back your statement up 100%.
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aa777flyer
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:36 am

Today is not April 1st is it? Ok just checking. What the heck is that guy thinking, not only does AA not have the money to buy UA, but AA has enough of its own problems to fight for its own survival. The DOT would never approve it, the transition would be the biggest CF in the world. The different fleet types, different engine types on the same types (757,777 at UA at PW the 757 and 777 at AA are RR).....I would be willing to bet my lunch this will never happen. AA MAY buy some bits and pieces of UA if they ever do liquidate which I dont think will happen.
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aa777flyer
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:44 am

Here I cut the article so it is easier to read!

As one of the foremost aviation consulting firms, Morten Beyer & Agnew (mba) this week proposed the merger of United Airlines and American Airlines as the only practical solution to the financial problems of both airlines.

"We propose that American take over United, as the stronger of the two carriers and the one who possesses the more successful management", said Chairman Morten Beyer. "United is burdened by its huge unfunded pension liability, continuing heavy losses despite its bankruptcy and cost reduction efforts, and has thrice been refused government loan guarantees required to fund its recovery."

Mr. Robert Agnew, President of MBA, pointed out that American's balance sheet is stronger than United's, with $3.853 billion in cash compared to $2.226 billion at United, and stockholder's equity only minus $122 million compared to minus $6.624 billion at United.

"It is obvious that Major U.S. carriers face a dim financial future as they battle the steady growth of low cost competitors, ruinous competition among themselves, and relentless cost pressure from labor unions, rising fuel expense, and the costs of maintaining their inefficient hub-and-spoke route systems," Mr. Beyer said. "A major impediment to a merger of United and American may lie in DOT and DOJ concerns over the anti trust implication of such a combination, but we believe there is no realistic alternative if we are to avoid the liquidation of United and the resulting adverse consequences to our air transportation system," stated Mr. Agnew.

"We have always had the doctrine of saving failed corporations, including airlines, through merger, the most recent being American's takeover of TWA," stated Mr. Agnew. "We see the following major advantages to a merger of the two carriers:

American will become the dominant international carrier between the U.S. and all areas of the world,
The merger will save the jobs of many of United's 80,000 employees and possibly as many as 200,000 airport, servicing, and other employees,
Service will be maintained over United's extensive domestic route system and preserve competition with other Major carriers,
Wasteful competition between United and American will be eliminated in major markets and excess capacity reduced,
The investment and financing in both carriers' extensive fleets will be preserved,
As American has more employees, its unions and their better labor relations will prevail,
As American has the stronger management, progress in overcoming the merger's problems should be swift and effective,
The combination of station facilities, headquarters staff, and real estate will save hundreds of millions in unneeded duplication, and
A buy-out by American will no doubt be the best deal that United's creditors will ever get," Mr. Agnew concluded.
"What with the IAM suing to get the appointment of a trustee for United and the continued financial failure of the carrier, it is high time to take decisive action. We believe that the prospects of a merged company and the combined assets are sufficient to support the estimated $10.0 billion in additional equity and loans required to support the merger," Mr. Beyer concluded.




Just a question....What is Stock Holder Equity?
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Aaron747
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:57 am

The only thing that would change is AA would then have some class, and be a real airline

get over yourself.
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:16 am

The "and employees" part I'm sure that all former TWA employees would back your statement up 100%.

Oh spare me. I'm getting really tired of former TW employees whining about AA.

FACT - without AA, TW wouldn't have made it out of the year 2000, let alone survived 9/11.

FACT - AA was under NO OBLIGATION WHATSOEVER to hire TW employees

FACT - the vast majority of TW employees hired by AA received pay increases over what their TW salaries were



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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FA4UA
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:21 am

Alright... who's passing out the crazy pills?

I read this and I laughed, I cried, and then I felt ill.

a cold day in hell....


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Tom in NO
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:21 am

I would look at a merger of AA and UA as the 2004 version of the PanAm and National merger, only on a much larger scale.

Tom at MSY
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moman
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:56 am

EA_CO_AS

"FACT - without AA, TW wouldn't have made it out of the year 2000, let alone survived 9/11."

TWA made it out of 2000 alone, the merger/buyout/sellout whatever you want to call it was announced in Jan 2001 and completed later that year.

"FACT - AA was under NO OBLIGATION WHATSOEVER to hire TW employees"
This might be true, but they did say they would maintain a vast majority of TWA's route network, (which they have done to some extent) which implies that they would need some TWA employees to run the route network, unless they planned on shutting down AA's route network and only running TWA's (and no one was thinking they would do that!) or hiring new employees (which to my knowledge they have not done).

I don't think too many TWA employees are complaining anymore. Most are without jobs and complaining isn't going to get their jobs back. I believe that many AA employees did not want the TWA employees, hence the problems integrating the seniority lists. My neighbor works for AA and used to complain about how "TWA employees are stealing AA blind", etc, etc, so it's not only the TWA employees who are complaining. The people of Missouri are complaining because AA has not held to their word with the TWA merger. Sen. Bond (R-MO) held hearings about the TWA-AA merger trying to sort why TWA was taking the brunt of the cuts. Most of us understand that after 9/11 all cards were off the table but still.....

STL has been dealt a severe blow. I feel sorry for PIT right now.

Moman
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DIA
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:17 am

"Oh spare me. I'm getting really tired of former TW employees whining about AA."

Right. A^A tried to do a wonderful job at integrating the TWA employees. . .please. Yeah sure

So really, spare us from this "they did everything they could" B.S. And besides, I really don't care if your "tired" of it. . .go fly a kite. . .or read a book on "fair" mergers and acquisitions (something that includes employee integration).  Yawn
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:05 am

Right. A^A tried to do a wonderful job at integrating the TWA employees. . .please.

There you go again.

AA didn't try to integrate TW employees "fairly" because they didn't have to. End of story. TW employees are lucky they had jobs for as long as they did under AA.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
N6376M
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:15 am

Any acquisition of United would have to be done as part of a pre-packaged bankruptcy plan so most if not all of UAL's debt and contingent liabilities would immediately disappear.

Secondly, I really don't think the DoJ would hold up any airline merger right now. Given the fact that the LCC are eating the majors alive, I can't see how the government could in good faith stop a merger. At most, I could see them requiring the combined entity to divest itself of certain assets.

 
DIA
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:21 am

"AA didn't try to integrate TW employees "fairly" because they didn't have to. End of story."

Therein lies the problem. This is why so many people had a problem with how it went down. Just because A^A "didn't have to" doesn't mean that they shouldn't have given more of an effort to show they are a respectable and ethical company. . .it would have been a good, no, a great time for some positive PR, but they took that idea and threw it out the window.

Sure there was a lot of bad blood and stressed reltionships throughout the course of the merger between both airlines' employees. . .but other large cmpany mergers had these same dilemmas and they figured them out as fair as they could. . .usually seeking out several outsourced specialized consultant firms who specialize in this gray area of merging to companies. If A^A did anything like this, they should have asked for their money back and sued their consultant, and fired several of their own HR people. . .but it seems that the final outcome was pretty close to what A^A was expecting anyhow. At least that is what all reports on the merger seem to conclude. . .both federal and contributing outside editorials/investigative probes.
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planemannyc
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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:35 am

Coming back to the topic, I feel that even if the DOT would allow such a tie up, AA and UA would probably not want to merge for several compelling reasons, including some that have been voiced above:

a) lack of money by either carrier
b) fleet un-commonality
c) lack of trust for each other (these carriers have been at odds for decades)

Besides, the fastest growing competition comes from LCCs. A merger of these two would not necessarily address that threat. The domestic network of either is pretty much saturated. Sure, you can save some cost by cutting out overlapping routes, but the main question is how do you compete against the likes of Southwest, JetBlue and AirTran? I would think the competition from these are bigger concerns for AA or UA rather than a merger.

My $0.02

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RE: American / United Merger Proposal

Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:42 am

Just because A^A "didn't have to" doesn't mean that they shouldn't have given more of an effort to show they are a respectable and ethical company. . .it would have been a good, no, a great time for some positive PR, but they took that idea and threw it out the window.


IMHO, the positive PR was there - in the fact that AA was saving nearly 20,000 employees from having to seek other jobs when TW (without AA's intervention) would have defaulted on a large note coming due.

AA opted to take on the employees for the goodwill it would provide, coupled with the fact that an already-trained workforce was better than ramping up a new one.

The thing to keep in mind is that integrating TW's employees in seniority order would have been unfair to AA employees, many of whom

  • Had once worked for TW but "saw the writing on the wall" and ditched their TW jobs and seniority to start over at AA, the more successful carrier

  • Would have been the first to bear the brunt of job cuts during downturns thanks to a merger they didn't ask for in the first place


  • In other words, AA employees had no upside here - they had everything to lose and nothing to gain, whereas TW's employees had nothing but upside. They had nothing to lose and everything to gain.
    "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

    Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
     
    LMP737
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    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:06 am

    If one thinks that integrating the AA/TWA employees was a near impossible task this would be a disaster from the outset. No that the government would allow it anyway.

    Let me tell you if I ever need an "aviation consulting" Morton Beyer & Agnew would be the last place I would call. To ever purpose something like this shows that they are on something!
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    DAYFL
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    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:07 am

    Never going to happen!
     
    moman
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    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:19 am

    EA CO AS:

    You do bring up a good point on the employee integration but I still feel that, IMHO, regardless of if TWA was going to make it or not, AA never had intention of keeping the TWA hub, route network, or employees long term. They were doing this to answer to the UA/US merger and get some sweetheart assets of TWA and dispose of the rest. This, of course, was never publicly stated. AA got a sweetheart deal by TWA filing for bankruptcy so they could get the assets only, as noted by Sen. Christopher Bond. After the deal closed (around Dec 1 01 if memory serves me) it was all downhill from there. Supposedly AA immediately cut the vast majority of poorly performing TWA routes. As a former TWA pax and fan, I now choose AA for all my travels when possible as they did keep some number of TWA employees for a while.

    Would you feel the same way about United employees if AA were to take it over (and I certainly don't feel that is likely)?

    Moman

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    gilesdavies
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    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:30 am

    I dont how it compares in the US but if two companies of this size were in the UK there is a goverment regulatory body called "The Panel of Takeovers and Mergers Commission" and they would not legally allow this kind of merger go through. As this would create a monopoly on many routes and would be a too dominant carrier, I would have thought the US has a similar government board that can enforce these kind of rules...

    Any kind of merger of this size would cost billions and would take years before the cost savings begin to show and neither airline has this sort of money available in the short term.
     
    moman
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    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:34 am

    Gilesdavies:

    The US does have this kind of board, it is called the Federal Trade Commission. They, along with the Antitrust Dept of the Justice Dept have to review all mergers. I find it quite unlikely they would approve a merger of this size unless either carrier was close to liquidating. Remember that they nixed the merger of UA/US in 2001 but approved the merger of TW/AA.

    Moman
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    wdleiser
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    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:10 am

    If you ask me, I think if they did Merge United would be the name. I think to most of the world United is much better known and atleast to me is a symbol of US aviation. Imagine an American 744... hideous. It would be easier to paint the planes into UAL and yada yada yada. United has a large presence in Europe so not much shake up would happen there, they have the Asian market, they use to have a huge presence at Miami too.
     
    LanFan
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    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:16 am


    I'm for it. Why not? Look at it from a business perspective. AA CEO Arpey himself said that it was not likely the industry can sustain growth in shareholder value. Let's remember these are public corporations which must ultumately answer to their owners -- the shareholders.

    For this to work the Bush Administration would have to take measures to bring back the Civil Aeronautics Board and regulate fares -- arguably the reason we are in this mess in the first place was Carter's fantastic idea to derregulate the industry...commercial aviation should not be a corporate free for all!

    Serious integration issues would exist, but they are all solvable matters.

    J.
     
    Indio66
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    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:14 am

    Where can I get some of the drugs this guy is taking!!
     
    ual777contrail
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    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:23 am

    Isn't it sad when people who are suppose to be aviation experts are the dumbest in the industry?

    To even print this nonsense and have this be the 31st reply is sad, they probably fly on 5 different airlines a year and assume the role of aviation expert.

    AARON747,
    OK, OVER MYSELF, STILL FEEL THE SAME WAY. Insane


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    ultrapig
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    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:28 am

    I'm a bankruptcy lawyer as some of you know-

    This would be a gigantic mess impossible to do with union objections and objections of various creditor groups and bondholder (If you were an AA Bondholder would you want to take the chance that your collateral was diluted by unfunded pension of obligations of United?) The Union integration problem would be impossible. AA's union would insist that its members had seniority and United would demand integration.

    As to TWA (I'm from St. Louis) Once and for all-TWA was out of money when the acquisition was announced. Their Bankruptcy Counsel told the board of directors that they might be personally liable for excise taxes on tickets which had not been paid and which was not separately kept in trust. TWA had no chance to stay open even another week. As a St. Louisan I would have preferred that the TWA people kept on because more of them were STL based than were their AA cousins-but tell me-if you were a AA Union official what would you have told your members-"We are taking on employees from a company about to go of business-we are integrating the seniority list so if our business shrinks some of the new TWA people will have jobs after you have been laid off". AA did what its union insisted upon.

    Pilots especially should realize that although they have a skill-the main think they hold in terms of value is their union seniority
     
    AZjetgeek
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    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:42 am

    Chance of a UA/AA merger equals "chance of a snowball in Phoenix in July". As one poster pointed out, there is a long history of bad blood between the two carriers. I doubt seriously that AA has ever forgiven UA's Dick Ferris for breaking away from the "Big Four" and supporting deregulation. Grudges don't just go away overnight.

    Given AA's own financial situation, I can't see the airline surviving if they attempt to take over UA. UA is akin to a drowning swimmer. If AA dives into the water to rescue United, both are likely to drown.

    The UA/US merger that was shot down is an example of our government not wanting two struggling carriers to merge. The last thing our country needs is for two major airlines to fail to the point of liquidation.

    UA needs to emerge from Ch 11 as soon as possible if they have any possible hope of another major airline forming a merger with them. Given numerous delays to achieve that goal (emerging from bankruptcy), I cannot see any U.S. carrier willing to take such a tremendous risk. DL certainly isn't in any position to save UA. That leaves CO and NW as the only major carriers with the remotest ability to rescue United. IMO, I just don't see that happening.
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    srbmod
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    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:13 am

    AA/UA merger, never would happen; there are only two major airlines that I could see AA being involved in a merger with, Delta and Continental. The chances of AA merging with either of these two airlines is pretty low, but not as low as the chances of an AMR/UAL merger. A DL/CO merger would have a greater chance of being approved than a merger between AA and any of the Big 6 airlines. There is going to be a consolidation within the US airline industry within the next few years, it has been on the horizon since before 9/11. The United and American plans to take parts of US Airways was thought to be the beginning of such a consolidation, but the rejection of the planned mergers shoot down the idea for the time being. I wonder how financally screwed would American, United, ACA (they were going to buy US Airways' wholly owned Express carriers), and DC Air had the US Airways breakup would have been consumated?

    As for the AA/TW merger, TWA was in a bit of a bind. Go out of business or let yourself be acquired. AirTran made an exploratory inquiry about acquiring TWA back in mid-2000, but after seeing the books, dropped the idea. Several months later, when TWA was really on the ropes, it was either be acquired by AMR or let Carl Icahn reacquire the airline, which was not a very palatable idea, seeing how he was partially responsible for the financial state TWA was then in.
     
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    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:25 am

    AA got a sweetheart deal by TWA filing for bankruptcy so they could get the assets only, as noted by Sen. Christopher Bond.

    With all due respect, what prized assets did AA really get? A bunch of 767s they returned anyway? 757s that weren't compatible with the rest of their fleet? MD-80s that would have been easily acquired in a bankruptcy auction in short time?

    AA wanted STL, and only STL. They envisioned being less reliant on (and having the ability to schedule additional frequencies around) their operation at ORD.

    Senator Bond's concern was based solely on the fact that he wanted to grandstand for the labor unions under the guise of "protecting their interests" and garner votes for his re-election to the Senate. He knew AA was the only savior these people had, but chose to meddle in the name of politics. Shameful.
    "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

    Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
     
    LMP737
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    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:33 am

    Ual777contrail

    "The only thing that would change is AA would then have some class, and be a real airline"

    Is it me or do I detect a touch of bitterness?
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    Matt D
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    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:01 am

    Three words:

    No f-ing way.
     
    trickijedi
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    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:14 am

    The only ones that would benefit from this merger would be the consultants that try to make it work, followed by the bankruptcy lawyers that would shut this CF down.

    Yes, I agree. Well and a few retiring employess who will see their stock options go up a few days after the merger.

    And of course the biggest losers will be us, the flying consumer public, because competition will be a lot to be desired when we go to ORD or DFW and see 4 out of 5 terminals being monopolized by 1 airline.

    The biggest idiot? The head of government who would approve the merger.
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    milesrich
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    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:03 am

    American + United

    The Penn Central of Airlines!

     
    moman
    Posts: 708
    Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:17 am

    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:06 am

    EA CO AS

    I concur that AA did want STL and this was a strong reason for their purchase, but if AA only wanted STL wouldn't it have been cheaper just to increase their schedule there? I know there weren't too many empty gates then but I'm sure they could have worked out some sort of deal. Plenty of gates now....

    Moman
    AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
     
    FriendlySkies
    Posts: 3540
    Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:23 am

    This is the most idiotic and completely absurd statement I have ever heard. UA and AA merging......this guy needs a life, or needs to get out of the airline analyst business. And I couldn't stand to see UA's beautiful livery (either of them) painted over in that god awful bare metal "livery" of AA. I fear another AA/TW, but this time, AA would go Chapter 7. No way this could happen, I don't need any classes or college education to tell me that.
     
    Matt D
    Posts: 8907
    Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:27 am

    Americans purchase of TWA was little more than a mercy killing.

    Had that transaction not occurred, TWA most likely would've died within weeks if not days of the final decision from the DOJ and others. They sure as hell wouldn't have survived 9/11. AA got them for a song. And pretty much the only reason it was approved was because everyone knew it.
     
    cancidas
    Posts: 3985
    Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:34 am

    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:04 pm

    amazing, they still haven't learned from the first time around...

    no way AA/UA!
    "...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
     
    bill142
    Posts: 7853
    Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:49 pm

    United might as well go out of business rather then merging with AA. Alot of staff would probably get sacked and alot of aircraft would get sold. To me that makes about as much sense as selling ice to eskimos.
     
    aa777jr
    Posts: 2269
    Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:59 pm

    Would like to see AA buy some UA 744s. That would be awesome! Go AA!!!
    A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
     
    sllevin
    Posts: 3312
    Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:18 pm

    The only thing UA has that AA would want is Asia. The other "crown jewel" is LHR access, which they already have.

    Everything else they already do, or could do, themselves -- Europe, and a west coast presence.

    Steve
     
    Bobs89irocz
    Posts: 599
    Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 4:52 am

    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:24 pm

    Aa777jr- Im sure everyone would love to see some 744 in the AA livery....i know i would.

    Thats just another "when hell freezes over" kinda thing.

    This thread has turned into a bad case of armchare ceo's worst nightmare. (which BTW was not directed towards ANYONE but the write of that stupid column).
     
    ILSApproach
    Posts: 398
    Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:59 am

    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:52 pm

    Too funny...............never happen. Imagine being held hostage for ticket prices at ORD!!
     
    rwylie77
    Posts: 322
    Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 6:11 pm

    RE: American / United Merger Proposal

    Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:18 pm

    Morton Beyer & Agnew have actually been very clever with this one - I'm sure they don't believe for a minute the contents of the report, but they knew it would create debates like this in the media and has been fantastic PR for them. How many of you had heard of Morton Beyer & Agnew before yesterday?

    As for the merger, there is no way it will happen. The government may let it happen if it saves United's pension plan, but AA would be better off waiting for United to go into bankruptcy and then all airlines across the US will pick up the bits and pieces of United that they want. For example, American may buy the Pacific routes, America West some of the slots in LA, Virgin America some of the slots in SFO, some planes will be parked, the rest sold in bits and pieces across the world. The creditors will lose out, but everybody else would gain. Why would AA buy United and take on all their liabilities? They could probably buy the airline for next to nothing, but why take on all that debt etc?

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