A320319318
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MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:51 am

Mexicana or Aeromexico to China;

In Reforma newspaper (respected Mexico City paper) on 25August there was an article that stated that Mexican officials were in China negotiating a bilateral air transportation agreement. Mexican citizens visiting China will not require a visa. Cathay Pacific said they might be interested in a Beijing/Hong Kong-Mexico City route. Mexican government (CINTRA) said Mexicana would be the likely choice, though no aircraft are availabe at the time, and studies are being conducted on profitability of route.
In the same newspaper another commentary said both MX/AM were being considered for the route, although none had aircraft presently.

Who will win???????????????????????????/
(a secret............MEXICANA!), since AM has routes to Europe.
What do you guys think?

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
EddieDude
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:32 am

Unfortunately, it is more likely that a Chinese airline (or CX) will start flying to Mexico before a Mexican carrier. The reason is not just aircraft availability but also the precarious financial situation of CINTRA. AM and MX expected to post a profit this year but CINTRA will likely end up losing 100-150 million dollars during fiscal 2004 as a result of the oil prices.

Another issue is range. While it may be possible to do a non-stop from Chinese territory to Mexican territory using a 772LR or an A345 in a low-density configuration, it is almost impossible to do a non-stop from Mexican territory to Chinese territory. A technical stop in YVR or something would be needed and this might be a reason for not starting flights.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
DYK
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:04 am

Under the Canada-Mexico bilateral agreement a Mexican carrier will have fifth freedom rights ex Canada to any point. So I think a stop in YVR would serve a Mexican carrier very well, as traffic to Asia and Mexico from is enjoying healthy growth.
AC,CP,PW,WD,ND,UA,AA,NW,CO,DL,WA,AS,QX,PR,SQ,AI,TG,MH,JL,9W,IC,UL,PG,BW,NZ,QF,DJ,BA,LH,KL,OA,OS,ME,RJ,HA,AQ
 
ghost77
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:16 am

According to several articles looks like CX will be the one flying the route and MX will only place its codeshare in the route.

But CX will sure be forced to do a techincal stop somewhere on their way back! YVR could be a possibility, meanwhile mexican carriers could flythe route from TIJ!

That route sure needs a MD11, A340, B747 or at least an A330 which MX and AM lacks of all and also add to that the recent fuel prices raising all the way to FL500 in the last months and according also to Reforma and Dario's Celis respected column, SADLY I think CINTRA will not post a profit in 2004, but I really hope they do the opposite way... !


Ricardo APM

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
N754PR
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:30 am

It will be a codeshare, I guess CX on their LAX flight and then Mexicana to Mexico.
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
pilotcoex
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:35 pm

There was an article last week on Bloomberg.com ( Latin America) and also the Asian Wall Street Journal about the Mexican and Chinese Governments allowing direct flights between MEX and China. However, the article did not mentioned CX. It mentioned China Southern (B777), China Eastern (A340) and Air China (A340) as possible candidates.
 
jopavon
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:11 am

Iniciarán en 2005 vuelos a Hong Kong por Mexicana y Cathay
Lunes, 23 de Agosto del 2004 (15:26:41)


Fuente: Crónica

MÉXICO, DF.- El año entrante podrían iniciar los primeros vuelos de México hacia Hong Kong, consideró Miguel Torruco Marqués, presidente de la Asociación Mexicana de Hoteles y Moteles (AMHM). Lo anterior luego del código compartido que se aprobó entre Mexicana de Aviación y Cathay Pacific.


This comes to say that MX and CX have or will have a Code share on flights to Hong Kong. Here's the link to the story. Only in spanish sorry. If that happens...MX will have codeshares on four of the actual eight members of Oneworld: AA, IB, CX & LA.

http://www.transportesxxi.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4128

The rest of the story says that it's unknown if MX or AM will get the codeshare on flights to Pekin.

[Edited 2004-08-27 17:16:07]
 
EddieDude
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:25 am

I think Mexico-China flights will not start in the short term. The signing of the agreement between the 2 governments does not mean that flights will start right away, but rather that now they are permitted.

DYK, thanks for the info on the bilateral. I didn't know that Mexican carriers have 5th freedom rights ex-Canada. It looks like MX should get an A340 and do MEX-YVR-PVG 2 or 3 times weekly. Sadly, as Ghost mentions, the financial situation of CINTRA is not improving as a result of the rise in fuel prices, so this looks very unlikely. (On an unrealted side-note, I would not call Darío Celis' column "respected", the guy can't write decent Spanish and makes up half of the things he writes about).
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
anthsaun
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:07 am

What ever airline does CHINA - MEXICO needs 744s because one main money maker will be cargo.
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
adriaticus
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 am

Recommend reading of a related thread:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1688246

Cheers,
__Ad.
A300/18/19/20/21 B721/2 B732/3/G/8 B741/2/4 B752 B762/3/4 B772/3 DC8/9/10 MD11 TU134/154 IL62/86 An24 SA340/2000 E45/90
 
chinaeastern
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:24 am

well, if CX is gonna start the service, sad news, as PVG would certainly miss out
 
pecevanne
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:02 pm

I heard that they are looking to fly from Mx City to SJD and then to china. Or maybe from TIJ and china.
What kind of bird...777 or A-340..Which airline?... As Mexican citizen nobody knows....
If bilateral agreement with Canada permits fifth freedom rights to Orient I think the airline will be MEXICANA.
Let Me say that everything will be in secret until last minute. That's the way we always proceed.
 
EddieDude
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:20 pm

The Los Cabos area has in my opinion a lot of potential to become a major premium touristic destination on a global scale, so your comments sound interesting Pecevanne. I can definitely see a lot of wealthy Asian travelers spotting whales in the Sea of Cortés, playing golf in the wonderful golf courses of Los Cabos and enjoying the luxurious spas and resorts that are mushrooming in the area. And if the government goes ahead with the very ambitious Escalera Náutica infrastructure project, the whole Baja California peninsula will become a major touristic hotspot. Does anybody know if SJD can handle a big widebody?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
pecevanne
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 11:20 pm

Good question...My personal opinion is yes, SJD has enough space to deal with a big jet.
Rwy length is 3000 thousand meters.
 
adriaticus
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 11:44 pm

It's not only runway length, but width, and, most specially, a Pavement Compaction Number (PCN) that matches that of the incoming aircraft's own compaction number (ACN).

The same goes for TIJ...

Cheers,
__Ad.
A300/18/19/20/21 B721/2 B732/3/G/8 B741/2/4 B752 B762/3/4 B772/3 DC8/9/10 MD11 TU134/154 IL62/86 An24 SA340/2000 E45/90
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Sun Aug 29, 2004 12:33 am

What ever airline does CHINA - MEXICO needs 744s because one main money maker will be cargo

The Hunchback of Puget Sound is actually one of the worst modern longrange widebodies for concentrating on cargo when in [typical density] pax config...
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
ghost77
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Sun Aug 29, 2004 12:51 am

I would not call Darío Celis' column "respected", the guy can't write decent Spanish and makes up half of the things he writes about).

Ok, but he along with Rosario Áviles from La Crónica are the ones that know a little bit more things about aviation than others.


About SJD and TIJ

IMHO - TIJ is the best option for MX!


Let Me say that everything will be in secret until last minute. That's the way we always proceed.

Truth and Sadly... While other carriers especially Asian carriers shout about their new orders and planes here its is the opposite way while we all know the reality. I hope Flores and Romano soon confirm the T7 order and the A340 order!


Ricardo APM

Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
EddieDude
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:10 am

I would say the 772ER order has been tacitly confirmed. I mean, it was on the letter of the CEO in AM's June or July inflight magazine.

And sorry to insist on staying off-topic but I don't think Darío Celis knows about aviation (or about anything for that matter), I think he just repeats whatever rumors he hears or reads. I probably sound too antagonistic but it is really annoying to read all those wrong facts he writes about every day.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
cessnalady
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:32 am

I can see the benefit of both routes: MEX-TIJ-Asia, with a focus on business and cargo being the money driver of the flight, and MEX-SJD-Asia, with a focus on business and leisure as the money drivers of the flight...

I don't think AM's Fernando Flores would make the "oso" of announcing the B777 in a formal "Letter from the CEO" - and then don't go for it...

However, MX hasn't said anything official about the A340...

so the bet is in the air... Who will it be, AM or MX? (Or CX?)

Marie
 
navega
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 1999 10:58 pm

RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:02 am

Mexicana will be the carrier. They have been very involved
with the China trade commissions and have participated
in travel shows in the orient. They also have a very impressive ticket office/agents in the orient just look at
their time tables.



 
fly727
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:23 am

Good question...My personal opinion is yes, SJD has enough space to deal with a big jet. Rwy length is 3000 thousand meters.

I've seen my self a 747 in SJD.... to be precise, a British Airways one not so long ago...

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
Marcus
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RE: MEXICANA/AEROMEXICO To China?

Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:24 am

A couple of years ago there was a diplomatic gathering of heads of state in Los Cabos, of course the airport saw a bunch of presidential transports arrive, while the airport could handle widebodies it could not handle that many of them so some of the aircraft were flown to nearby La Paz while the meeting was in effect, and then flown to pick up Presidents, Prime Ministers and the like.
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown

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