runway23
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Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:47 am

http://nowaviation.com/content/view/77//

"The airline is due to announce that this change in strategy is due to changing market conditions though according to our sources the real reason resides in the Indian Minister of Civil Aviation asking Air India management to reconsider their A340-300 order"

Looks like this leaves room to the GECAS 777LR rumour which has been going around here for some time. Interesting to see what developments go on during the next few weeks.

[Edited 2004-08-29 22:51:20]
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:32 am


I'm shocked!! I thought it would have happened sooner!  Nuts
 
hz747300
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:30 am

Will the 772LR be able to fly DEL-JFK nonstop? I imagine that is what they are shooting for.

Related to Air India, I think it is amusing that whenever I price NYC-LON for a weekend getaway on short notice, AI is the cheapest by far. Never even close. It would be great to do that on a new plane.
Keep on truckin'...
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:50 am

 Nuts ... I love this airline.... I really do

Will the 772LR be able to fly DEL-JFK nonstop? I imagine that is what they are shooting for.

Yes, a 777-200ER and 777-300ER could do this as well. The 777-300ER (or maybe A346?) might be the aircraft of choice, well sized, very modern. At this point, just let them get *something*

Looks like this leaves room to the GECAS 777LR rumour which has been going around here for some time. Interesting to see what developments go on during the next few weeks.

It does indeed, but unless they plan to service South America, what do they need the 772LR for? Carrying huge payloads on B-market routes? Hot and high performance?

[Edited 2004-08-30 01:54:17]
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:54 am

this change in strategy is due to changing market conditions though according to our sources the real reason resides in the Indian Minister of Civil Aviation asking Air India management to reconsider their A340-300 order

Umm, wouldn't Air-India mgmt know MORE about changing market conditions that the Minister of Civil Aviation? Can't he keep his nose out of Air-India affairs? If not, why not?




I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
copaair737
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:34 am

Would, if the US-India bilateral gets reworked, AI be able to fly SFO-Mumbai, Delhi, or Bangalore nonstop? With the 772LR that is.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
jaysit
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:40 am

You people seem to have forgotten the A340-500 - an aircraft that makes perfect sense for AI's route network.

I doubt if Airbus will give up on the Air India deal. They're not exactly going to roll over and die now that the Minister has nixed the A343. They will probaly undercut the price on the A345 considerably to make it VERY competitive.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
mrniji
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:44 am

Are the planned acquisitions and the planned lease running parallel or will the lease definitely be on cost of the planned acquisition?? No idea what to believe anymore, will wait for given facts (so far the fact is only that nothing useful is happening..)

By the way, afaik the AI Board wanted to finish most of the leasing deals by Sep 1 due to the proposed tax.. any news, i.e. any deals fixed??
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:51 am

I am sure it has much more to do with politics then performance and market issues. There is no other reason a government official would get involved. With a lot of US company's shipping work over to India I am sure that the Indian government is trying to kiss a$$ to the US with the order.

-m

 Big thumbs up
 
mrniji
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:52 am

You people seem to have forgotten the A340-500 - an aircraft that makes perfect sense for AI's route network.

w/o starting a A v. B.: completely agreed... I would be surprised if A (and the F Government) would give up an almost secure deal to B.. a mixture of 332, 345 and 346 makes sense
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
jaysit
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:54 am

"Umm, wouldn't Air-India mgmt know MORE about changing market conditions that the Minister of Civil Aviation? Can't he keep his nose out of Air-India affairs? If not, why not?"

Because India in spite of 14 years of liberalization at the edges is still run by a bloated bureacracy of corrupt greedy bureaucrats who over 40+ years have fine tuned a bloated socialist economy to further their own interests. As the Minister is at the top of this endless food chain, it is only natural that he and his countless minions at the so-called Aviation ministry will be rooting around the trough. There's money to be made in subcontracts for everything under the sun here - carpeting, seat fabrics, toilet paper (a larger 773 will naturally mean more loos than a smaller A345, so more in TP subcontracts), etc. India's bureaucrats and ministers will surprise even the most entrenched Soviet insider in their rapaciousnes and ability to bilk the public coffers.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
jaysit
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:55 am

"With a lot of US company's shipping work over to India I am sure that the Indian government is trying to kiss a$$ to the US with the order."

Hon, then you don't know the Indian government.

They expect everyone else - including the mighty US of A - to kiss their heinies !
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
mrniji
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:56 am

There is no other reason a government official would get involved

Since AI is state-owned.. no surprise

With a lot of US company's shipping work over to India I am sure that the Indian government is trying to kiss a$$ to the US with the order.


Neither is there any decision nor an order for B yet.. easy, man! Who knows what happens.. maybe A makes the 380 apart from the 345/6 attractive.... Big grin
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:58 am

"Why would the need 772LR?"

DEL-LAX

DEL-ORD?

DEL-AKL?

DEL-SFO

 
jaysit
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:00 am

In any case, its good that the A343 order is dead.

Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:01 am

You people seem to have forgotten the A340-500 - an aircraft that makes perfect sense for AI's route network.

True, but there is one other factor at work here, GECAS. GE Capital is rumored to be close to firming an LoI for 8 772LRs, and it has been stated that the leasor is not a current 777 customer and is located in Asia. Now all of the sudden, the A343 order at AI is cancelled, and they are working with GECAS for 777s of unannounced type....

w/o starting a A v. B.: completely agreed... I would be surprised if A (and the F Government) would give up an almost secure deal to B.. a mixture of 332, 345 and 346 makes sense

Nothing makes sense in this deal....
 
mrniji
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:02 am

DEL-AKL?

 Big thumbs up


Good laugh before going to bed... good night guys, hope to see tomorrow more of your words of wisdom  Big grin
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:02 am

Hon, then you don't know the Indian government.

Very true...Just speculation...I stand corrected

Since AI is state-owned.. no surprise

There are plenty of other state owned carriers all over the world who make the final decision as to funding for new aircraft with out getting involved with the carrier as to which aircraft to purchase. But as mentioned above I am not as familiar with Indian politics as some others here are.

-m

 Big thumbs up
 
whitehatter
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:05 am

In any case, its good that the A343 order is dead.

Did you read the linked article? Obviously not.

It isn't dead. The bidding has been re-opened, Airbus could still pull it off.

However the original decision did seem flawed and a Boeing type package must be considered favourite for many reasons. None of which can be banked due to politicians being involved so deeply in the state-run Air India.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
mrniji
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:07 am

Now all of the sudden, the A343 order at AI is cancelled,

The 343 has never been ordered, just to clarify

Nothing makes sense in this deal....


Probably not for you, but for others

GE Capital is rumored to be close to firming an LoI for 8 772LRs, and it has been stated that the leasor is not a current 777 customer and is located in Asia. Now all of the sudden, the A343 order at AI is cancelled, and they are working with GECAS for 777s of unannounced type....

This is indeed an interesting info and comes perfectly with the Sep 1 deadline for teh leasing tax..


[Edited 2004-08-30 03:09:16]
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
texdravid
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:18 am

I think Jaysit has it right on...the Indian bureacracy is an entrenched, rigid system where buying a new aircraft of any kind takes a long time....don't hold your breath people.

I personally think that AI should stick to getting used 744's and used 343's. Cheap, easy, and easier to get through the bureacracy.

Finally, again only personally, I don't think I would trust AI with a ultra-long route like JFK-DEL OR ORD-DEL, because those flights are probably more than AI can chew maintenance wise. Just my opinion...
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:27 am

Finally, again only personally, I don't think I would trust AI with a ultra-long route like JFK-DEL OR ORD-DEL, because those flights are probably more than AI can chew maintenance wise. Just my opinion...


That is insulting and bordering on racist. Where is your evidence to support this?

Air India is a long-established international carrier. Just because there is a capital-acquisition issue doesn't mean that you can make totally unfounded accusations concerning their engineering.

They have operated 747s for many years, are you saying that they shouldn't have them? Or that PIA should have their 777s taken off them and the 772LR order cancelled? After all they are neighbours and the same kind of people...?

If it is "your opinion" then your opinion is disgraceful and insulting to Air India and its engineers.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
jaysit
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:13 am

"I personally think that AI should stick to getting used 744's and used 343's."

You mean used A310s, right?

"After all they are neighbours and the same kind of people...?"

Yeah, in that we all like biryani, paan, and Aishwarya Rai, . After that, the resemblances get murkier. In any case, AI engineering, from what I've heard, holds itself up to exacting standards that no babu's greedy paws can diminish.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
gamps
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:44 am

Today's (Aug 30) Business Standard newspaper has an article as well. The article also says IA has been asked to scrap its 43 A320s plan as well.

A-I, IA told to submit new fleet plans

The government has scrapped Air-India (A-I) and Indian Airline’s (IA) fleet acquisition proposals. Around a fortnight ago, Civil Aviation Minister Praful Patel wrote to the two national carriers asking them to dump their respective fleet acquisition plans.

http://www.business-standard.com/common/storypage.php?hpFlag=Y&chklogin=N&autono=165588&leftnm=lmnu2&lselect=0&leftindx=2

Patel’s decision has profound implications for the two airlines’ plans because coming up with entirely new aircraft acquisition plans and obtaining government approval for them will take around a year or two. Also, Indian Airlines deal with aircraft manufacturer Airbus Industries to buy 43 aircraft may be cancelled. Indian Airline’s fleet acquisition proposal had reached the Cabinet approval stage after over two years of deliberation and discussion. The Indian Airlines board had cleared the proposal last year.

Edited to remove the annoying "Iraqi Airways" for "IA"


[Edited 2004-08-30 04:54:11]
 
behramjee
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:19 pm

I think now the best thing to do is to wait and see what aircraft has been OFFICIALLY chosen rather than guess as we all know how often AIs mgmt heads as well as the Indian Govts mindsets change.

From the looks of it, its the A 345 versus B 772LR...if AI order the B 772LR, I really hope that for their sake the USA Govt reviews their bilateral aviation agreement with India and let AI fly to more USA cities from India such as SFO-IAH and IAD.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:27 pm

From the looks of it, its the A 345 versus B 772LR...if AI order the B 772LR, I really hope that for their sake the USA Govt reviews their bilateral aviation agreement with India and let AI fly to more USA cities from India such as SFO-IAH and IAD.

In the past, a Boeing/Airbus order has had zero implication on bilateral landing rights and the degrees of freedom an airline recieves. The U.S. government plays no favorite to what you fly into the U.S.
 
behramjee
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:48 pm

Im not implying that USA would favor u if u flew in a B 777 instead of an A 340 to USA...all Im saying is that if BOEING wins the B 772LR order for a dozen approx jets from AIR INDIA then as a reward to AI for choosing the American aircraft manufacturing company, the U.S. Govt should award AI extra landing rights in USA as well as the authority to serve SFO-IAH and IAD from India.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 1:40 pm

I guess with a bit of luck they can still get their hands on the last A345 or B772LR off the line in Toulouse or Seattle. It is really a shame that the Government of India, whether they're Congress or Nationalists, can't get their act together and start building a truly world wide airline.

It is remarkable then that, given the administrative quagmire plagued by corruption, collusion and nepotism, Air India still succeeds in putting out the product it does. A product, I might add, which, maybe apart from the Inflight Entertainment, exceeds that of most American carriers any day.

What a shame that it's gonna take at least another 2 years before they can start building the airline and its presence. Meanwhile, the Lufthansa's and Emirates' of this world will continue to run away with ever increasing chunks of India's aviation market.

 
IndianGuy
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 1:47 pm


Lufthansa's and Emirates'
<?I>
u can add Sri Lankan, Qatar, Singapore and even Aeroflot to the list! I was stumped when a client suggested I take J-Class Aeroflot to London instead of Air India in Y!

While international carriers are making hay, Indian travellers dont yet have the option of choice with an Indian carrier. They have to be stuck with a thrid rate Air India!

-Roy
 
texdravid
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:33 pm

Whitehatter,

In case you don't know, I AM an Indian, specifically born in Madras, now living in Texas. YOU are the one with WHITE in your username.

How dare you suggest that I am a racist simply because I hold AI in contempt?
I don't care who or what runs AI. I am simply saying that running an ULTRA-LONG HAUL flight nonstop for 15-18 hours is beyond AI's caliber right now.

I hope they prove me wrong, but it takes more that aircraft or capable pilots to do these routes...it takes an operational bureacracy, not a stifling, political one.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
Vimanav
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:04 pm

and the saga continues...

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
Alessandro
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:08 pm

IA face a lot of competition nowadays, new comer Air Deccan with
A320 want to establish itself as low-price airline domestically, Air Sahara start
to fly internationally, Jet airways is competing
as well as Indian Airlines. Then internationally they compete with the likes
of Lufthansa, so I don't think AI will be able to fly old airplanes and be competitive.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
TKMCE
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:45 pm

By the way since the Leasing Tax issue has been mentioned quite a few times.

The tax has been put off for another year. Saw quite a few reports in the media quoting the finance minister.

Tex Dravid - Nationalist sentiments aside, if you take a closer look at Air India engineering's achievements over the years, you will find that they are some of the best. The airline's safety record is of the highest standard and you will find that in many of the airlines you may worship in terms of engineering capabilties, there are quite a few staff who mastered their trade in Air India.

 
Vimanav
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:02 pm

if you take a closer look at Air India engineering's achievements over the years, you will find that they are some of the best. The airline's safety record is of the highest standard

Bang on. I really don't understand why there is such skepticism regarding AI's technical capabilities (as this is not the first time insinuations have been made about AI's tech reliability and safety). Even leaders in technical excellence have made major boo boos, eg. LH (the B747F that they successfully broke in two), SR, JL.. you name it.

Today's (Aug 30) Business Standard newspaper has an article as well. The article also says IA has been asked to scrap its 43 A320s plan as well.

I believe IC's is not a case of scrapping the order but reviewing it because they feel that IC would require some widebodies as well (which IMHO is absolutely essential). Since the present plan of 43 aircraft were all narrow bodies, they wanted to get some widebodies included as well.

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
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PanAm_DC10
Crew
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:14 pm

What impact does this have on the 18 738 that Air India planned to acquire? This was announced at the same time as the order for A343 is the narrowbody decision also to be re-evaluated or are they going ahead with this order?

Regards
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
Vimanav
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:21 pm

What impact does this have on the 18 738 that Air India planned to acquire?

They are apparently going ahead with the 738s. But I'd only believe it when I see the aircraft in AI colors operating a scheduled flight.

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
Hamlet69
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:29 pm

"I believe IC's is not a case of scrapping the order but reviewing it because they feel that IC would require some widebodies as well

What impact does this have on the 18 738 that Air India planned to acquire?
"

Unfortunately, that is no longer the case. When the gov't first spoke on the issue, they said they would only review the case. Then, they wanted both airlines to 'modify' their acquisition plans through leases - AI to get ultra long-range aircraft, IA to get widebodies as well as the A32Xs. From the gist of this article, both fleet plans have now been scrapped - to start again from square one. That means IA's planned Airbus order, and AI's planned A340 & 738 order.

Did anyone honestly believe we had reached the end. . .  Crying

Regards,

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
flyhigh@tom
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:16 pm

Now what????? No new planes ...heck for how many years should we wait now?

-Tom
 
zvezda
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RE: Airbus: Thai To Buy 6 A380

Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:26 pm

HB-IWC:
"It is really a shame that the Government of India, whether they're Congress or Nationalists, can't get their act together and start building a truly world wide airline. "

It is really a shame that the Government of India, whether they're Congress or Nationalists, won't get out of the way, privatize AI and IA, stop interfering, and let private companies build airlines.
 
na
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:36 pm

Another proof that the avaition big shots in India are better in talking than doing.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:27 pm

I dont want to gloat: but earlier when i mentioned that the lease tax proposal would be reviewed, *ahem* one member with connections in high places was at my throat then. If u Look carefully dear, I am doing my *told u so* dance right now!!  Laugh out loud


I believe IC's is not a case of scrapping the order but reviewing it because they feel that IC would require some widebodies as well (which IMHO is absolutely essential).


ABSOLUTELY!! Both carriers are being asked to rework their current plans and make it more long-term in approach. So IC has been asked to include widebodies so it can be competetive in the situation when the intl skies are freed from AI's monopoly and other Indian carriers are allowed to compete: something that I think will happen in a phased manner WITHIN the next 5 years. We dont want a situation where IC has to again wait for 7 years to purchase widebodies while 9W and S2 go international. Ditto for AI.

Which is why I think IC will submit a reworked proposal for not just 43 Airbus A32X's series (20 A321, 4 A320 and 19 A319- incl 11 for Alliance.) but also a mix of A332/A333 aircraft which would complement their existing fleet of 40 A320's very well. For AI I think we are not going see the A343 scrapped, but rather expect to see A345/346 added to the order. Such a bulk order with one mfr would enable the airliens to negotiate a joint deal and get bulk discounts.



-Roy
 
mrniji
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:18 pm

Finally, again only personally, I don't think I would trust AI with a ultra-long route like JFK-DEL OR ORD-DEL, because those flights are probably more than AI can chew maintenance wise. Just my opinion...

Then don´t board these aircraft.. No one needs passengers like you, who are probably quite shameless on board. You bring neither prove nor arguments for your allegations

I hope they prove me wrong, but it takes more that aircraft or capable pilots to do these routes...

How do you know the pilots won´t be capable?? Save us of your proposed words of wisedom in future.. that you are an NRI is regardless of teh fact that your comments are absolutely helpless, unnecessary, useless and crap



Finished in rejecting some stupid comments, noz as for the essence of the thread.. This is disappointing news. The best Patel could do is giving AI and IC the necessary autonomy - financially etc. - to decide on their own matters in a speedy way.. but no, he continues just hoz the NDA has ended, namely in rewriting the never-ending story..
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:27 pm

Niji: I seriously doubt that Air India would EVER introduce non-stops to the US. No i dont doubt their technical capabilities. But i just dont think they are
imaginative enough to be pro-active.

AI is so used to flying in a subsidised, sanitised and highly protected environment, that it has lost the ability to be proactive, to be a market leader. What we have is a third-rate, third world airline that is totally reactive, with an inflight product that is as horribly outdated as their aircraft and indeed their mentality.

Continue to expect all flights to the US/Canada routed via a dozen or atleast one European gateway. Maybe if Jet Airways is allowed to fly internationally, mebbe THEY would introduce such a flight, and then mebbe AI would introduce a similar non-stop as a response. But on their own? Dont bet on it!

-Roy
 
mrniji
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:32 pm

AI is so used to flying in a subsidised, sanitised and highly protected environment, that it has lost the ability to be proactive, to be a market leader

Roy, principally agreed with what you say.. but one thing that I have observed the last years that although AI is operating in a comparative protected environment, their product has improved significantly the last years.. I am only waiting for the GOI to give Ai their necessary autonomy, and they could do quite well... but as we know, the latter will probably not happen with the sorts of politicians in power...  Sad
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:38 pm

But i just dont think they are imaginative enough to be pro-active.

Even if they are imaginative or proactive, there is little they can do if the Indian government takes forever to process their aircraft orders. There is no way AI can develop if the Indian Government ties it hands and doesn't let it buy new planes to expand.

In that respect, India should take a leaf out of Pakistan's book. If the state owned PIA can acquire B777s and Dash8 the way they have, I don't see why India cannot do it.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:43 pm


their product has improved significantly the last years.

If th einflight product has improved as you say, i shudder to think what it must have been earlier!

IFE: None! Unless u call the overhead screens and the pursers hammering at the screens to get them to work as entertainment! This when the competetion has PTVs in Y!

Equipment: Competition operating spanking new Airbus A330's and Boeing 777's on routes where AI sends out ratty old A310's.

Routes: How many routes is AI operating on its own metal? What is proportion of these routes to the codeshares? What percentage of the O&D pax does AI
carry as compared to the competion?

And why have things come to such a pass? Aah! ofcourse, its the fault of the favorite whipping boy: The Govt and the babus! Its all their fault!

I am not sayin the Govt is above blame. But the hole that Air India is in is of its own digging!

-Roy
 
IndianGuy
Posts: 3126
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:48 pm


there is little they can do if the Indian government takes forever to process their aircraft orders. There is no way AI can develop if the Indian Government ties it hands and doesn't let it buy new planes to expand.

Well you cant blame the govt if the Technical commitees report on which aircraft they want looks worse than the report submitted by a 12 year old for his school project!

But yes the Govt is at fault: For not opening up the intl market sooner. Open Skies-2, which is only now coming in a phased manner, should have come 4 years earlier! The indian aviation sector cannot be held hostage to Air India's ability to compete. But it has been and thats a disgrace.

Air India can go to hell for all i care. The passenger must have the choice of taking an Indian carrier and getting good service. Why should Air India be protected at the expense of the passenger?

-Roy
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:54 pm

True, but there is one other factor at work here, GECAS. GE Capital is rumored to be close to firming an LoI for 8 772LRs
A few weeks ago, Boeing's order site (http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm) showed GECAS down for 8 777s, but now GECAS is no longer listed.

Does anyone have any more information?

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:57 pm

As we near April 2005,Things are getting very Interesting.
BTW,Had a look at the Air Deccan A320 on the 26th at Mumbai,Sure looked good from the Outside,although they struggled with the Towbar,prior to pushback.The NDTV sponsored logo looked neat too.
regds
HAWK
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
jaysit
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RE: Air India To Cancel A340 Proposal Order

Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:00 pm

" If the state owned PIA can acquire B777s and Dash8 the way they have, I don't see why India cannot do it."

The stock response from the GOI is "We are a democracy and things take time in a democracy." Then when you tell them that "the US is a democracy too" they say "Aha, but that is the US, this is India." The GOI has a circular logic to it, that defies the senses !
Atheism is Myth Understood.