airliner777
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Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:46 pm

Based on this report, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. will build the wings for the Boeing 7E7. There will be $318 million dollars invested in this project. Currently Mitsubishi Heavy is negotiating with Mitsubishi Motors for a land space in Nagoya, so they could build the plant there.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1503&ncid=1503&e=18&u=/afp/20040830/ts_afp/japan_air_mitsubishi_040830082316
 
AUAE
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:02 am

You beat me to post!!! I just read that too. Boeing is showing its master plan. With headquarters in Chicago, I knew it was only a matter of time before they really starting moving "wholesale" production outside the US. The wing is a really big step. It begs the question of whether or not Boeing would move final assy outside the US. I think it is highly probable now!

Shawn
Air transport is just a glorified bus operation. -Michael O'Leary, Ryanair's chief executive
 
transswede
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:31 am

Isn't this really old news on this forum?
 
N79969
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:41 am

Auae,

Boeing has already decided that final assembly will occur in Washington state.
 
kl911
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:50 am

Giving the wing away is almost like giving everything away. The wing technology is almost the backbone of an airplane. I wonder why they gave this away? What was the reaction of the unions? I thought they were powerfull. Imagine next time the whole plane is build in Japan....

KL911
 
boeingbus
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:06 am

Boeing is a global company and this news release is just one example of being global. Airbus does the same... I believe most A jets consist of over 30% US content. So its not as European as you think it is? It's smart business if you ask me. If they can sell 7E7 to countries that produces parts - its a WIN-WIN! This will also share expenses of producing aircraft and so on.

Just like if one purchases a BMW or a Mercedes in the US and you will find out that they are built in America. But its still German engineering, right? Look at the success of Toyota producing cars where they sell. A tremendous success and shining example of globalization.

Being an American, I don't think of Boeing any less as the company itself continues to invest, design and manufacture airplanes in the US.
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
rabenschlag
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:09 am

fancy cars come from europe, reliable ones from japan. maybe this also applies to commercial planes in the future?

i don't mind driving a camry, so i definately won't mind flying a mitsubishi.
 
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STT757
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:19 am

EADS/Airbus is a consortium of European Aerospace companies, with different parts and assembly lines in different countries. I can see Boeing moving their Commercial Aircraft Group towards such a set up with Japanese companies like Mitsubishi, it would benefit both Countries tremendously since both compliment each other so well.

It's one thing if Boeing were outsourcing production to Mexico or something to reduce labor costs, it's another thing to share risk and start up costs with Japanese companies in exchange for some share of the production.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
N79969
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:26 am

I think Kl911 raises a valid point here. The construction of the wing is a key piece of technical know-how in building airliners. Proprietary knowledge and processes are a source of competitive advantage. That said I am not all that worried that Mitsubushi is going to run Boeing out of the market.

Japanese firms have been careful with exactly what production processes they send overseas. Sharp has went further than that for example by introducing certain manual steps into their flat screen TV production process that could be fully automated. That way they can ensure (or try to) that a rival simply does not buy the same machine tools and compete against them.

I think the story linked above is very relevant because it raises the question of what Boeing will be in future. It looks they are moving away from manufacturing and more into the role of a leading prime contractor and marketer. Given the important role of aerospace in national defense that does potentially raise some interesting issues for the long term.


 
AUAE
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:28 am

I am sorry, I meant for moving final assy to apply to future aircraft, not the 7E7. As far as old news, I was thinking that farming out the wing was only speculation. But I don't read every 7e7 thread so I may be behind the times.  Smile

Shawn
Air transport is just a glorified bus operation. -Michael O'Leary, Ryanair's chief executive
 
kl911
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:31 am

'''I think Kl911 raises a valid point here. The construction of the wing is a key piece of technical know-how in building airliners. Proprietary knowledge and processes are a source of competitive advantage. That said I am not all that worried that Mitsubushi is going to run Boeing out of the market. '''


I'm also not afraid of that, but I was thinking about the jobs being lost in the US when they start building planes in Japan for example..
 
gaut
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:12 am

Hi guys

Does Mitsubishi also design the wing or only produce it??

I understand Boeing wants to build part of the 7E7 in Japan... They will receive subsidies from the Japanese government and it will boost the sales in this country. But as already pointed above, the wing is a key part of the aircraft and it will be the FIRST carbon wing in the commercial aviation history. I don't know if Mitsubishi has already build a wing but if not it will not be a piece of cake for the Japanese company. Anyway its a good news for the company and I wish them good luck.

How long will it take to transport those wings to Seattle???

Do you think it could be possible in the future to see an Asian manufacturer based on the Airbus creation? It could ease the relationship between all those Airbus and Boeing fans  Big grin



Regards

Gautier

«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
 
radelow
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:21 am

What concerns me about this is what experience does Mitsubishi have in producing Carbon Fiber wings? I was initially not nervous about flying on an all-carbon aircraft as Boeing has significant experience in building carbon fiber aircraft. Now we have basically an unknown aircraft manufacturer going to be producing a very advanced piece of work. Makes me nervous to fly on a 7E7.

Mark
 
robsawatsky
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:00 am

I wouldn't worry about Mitsubishi and carbon fibre technology. For example:

- They are a major supplier of carbon fibre (the fibre raw material used in carbon fibre composite structures)
- Are certified to aerospace standards for CF
- They make CF cloth and resin impregnated CF cloth
- They built space qualified structures for the International Space Station and Japan's rocket programs
- They've built components for previous Boeing aircraft with both aluminum and composite structures
- They've also built aluminum and composite components for Bombardier, Airbus, and their own aircraft designs
- They make or contribute to the production of several US designed military aircraft and missiles under license.

Don't worry, Mitsubishi puts up almost as many different things in the air as Boeing does.

 
radelow
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:34 am

I stand corrected. I browsed around Mitsubishi Heavy Industries' website and wow they make a lot of stuff. Looks like they made the CF pieces of the 777 tail...

Mark
 
Superfly
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:43 am

Doesn't Mitsubishi also make tuna?

It may be good for Boeing execs. but this hurts the workers in Washington.
The once mighty Boeing is relying on a tuna maker for it's wings.  Sad


Bring back the Concorde
 
luisde8cd
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:08 am

I believe mitsubishi once sold private jets. According to a friend of mine, those bizjets were a failure because of poor performance and some crashes... Is that true? what's mitsubishi experience in GA aviation?

PD: By the way, I own a '98 mitsubishi eclipse GS and it's the best car I've ever owned! it has given me no trouble. Only have had to change oil and brake pads.
 
BH346
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:52 am

Mitsubishi is a huge Japanese conglomerate, they are in a variety of industries. This includes banking, shipbuilding, aircraft manufacturing, automobiles, electronics, construction to name some. After spending some of my summer in Japan, I hope their automobile quality won't show in the manufactring of aircraft components. Mitsubishi Motors is under fire in Japan right now due to some corporate scandals as well as quality control issues (MMC execs failed to announce many recalls and their SUVs are catching on fire and having axles that break).

I did a quick search on the tuna thing...I didn't look very thoroughly but it sounds like that they are just rebranding the tuna...somebody else actually processes the tuna.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:58 am

Mitsubishi has made planes for a long time.

You may have heard of the Mitsubishi A6M Zero-Sen Fighter of WWII fame. http://www.aviation-history.com/mitsubishi/zero.html

There's also the Mitsubishi MU-2 http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=288.

View Large View Medium

Photo © Jeff Miller



The Mitsubishi MU-300:

View Large View Medium

Photo © Erick stamm



And of course the Mitsubishi F-1 which was derived from the SEPECAT Jaguar:

View Large View Medium

Photo © Erik Sleutelberg

http://www.milavia.net/aircraft/f-1/f-1.htm



[Edited 2004-08-31 03:59:55]

[Edited 2004-08-31 04:00:50]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
BH346
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:06 am

One more thing...the Mitsubishi Diamond business jet has been updated and is still being made by Raytheon as the Hawker 400XP. It was formerly known as the Beechjet 400A.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
gigneil
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:11 pm

Looks like they made the CF pieces of the 777 tail...

Toray Industries made a good fraction of the composites of the 777 tail. Mitsu may have contributed.

N
 
Carpethead
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:27 pm

MHI builds the F-2 (basically spruced-up version of the F-16) fighter wing, which is primarily composites. There are some issues with the plane, but what new aircraft doesn't have some teething problems.

The Japan aeronautical research institute has been continually doing supersonic and subsonic structural R&D for some time, so the technology may be jointly developed with Boeing. Thus the reason for MHI building the wing.

With the cost of developing aircraft so high, Boeing would have a very difficult task of launching an aircraft program by itself, so in today's global world it seems natural to extend the hand to us Japanese & others around the world.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:55 pm

I think the F-2/FS-X wing problems are overwith. The chief problem with it is cost. The price tag is $100mil per copy, and they've only so far ordered half. Based upon the comments of their Defense Minister in this week's AvWeek, we may see them cancel the project and order more F-15s.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
AUAE
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:02 pm

You guys are forgetting one the first planes mitsubishi made....

the AM Zero.

 Smile

All composite at that.  Smile

Shawn
Air transport is just a glorified bus operation. -Michael O'Leary, Ryanair's chief executive
 
airliner777
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:07 pm

Superbird: "Doesn't Mitsubishi also make tuna?"

HAHAHAHAHA

Boeing's newest commercial on TV......... "Boeing 7E7, the flying Tuna"!  Big grin
 
N79969
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:00 am

I recently read that the FSX program has been killed by the JASDF. To get back to KL911's point for a moment now that I understand it better, the decision to farm out this key production process may mean fewer jobs in the US further down the road.

Personally I doubt that Mitsubishi or any other Japanese contractor will move to compete against Boeing or Airbus for that matter. The barriers to entry in this market are still high. They seem to make good money as subcontractors without having to assume a lot of the risk that Boeing has had to face.

Japan's large heavy industrial manufacturers are working to develop a small passenger jet that will fill a niche left open by Bombardier and Embraer.
 
planemaker
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RE: Boeing 7E7 Wings By Mitsubishi

Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:53 am

Just to add a wee bit more MHI civil aircraft info regarding detailed design and manufacturing:

Global Express/5000 -- wings and centre fuselage
Challenger 300 -- wings
Dash8-Q400 -- entire fuselage including v/stab & h/stab minus cockpit
CRJ700 & 900 -- aft fusleage
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein