CMHSRQ
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SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:17 pm

This is very good news for SRQ, finally. Looks like SRQ will recieve a 1.5 million dollar grant to subsidize Air Tran services, 3 a day minimum starting in March to ATL and BWI.

http://www.newscoast.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040831/BUSINESS/408310437/1060
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MAH4546
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:45 pm

And what happens when the subsidies are gone and airTran can't make money without them? airTran leaves (alla Tallahasse; alla Toldeo). The unfortunate thing about these grants is that airlines take the new service as a "trial" service. And if after the trial, they can't make money, they leave. American Eagle did this too, in Duluth. Let's hope they can make it. I do think it is a market that can support it.
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DeltaMIA
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:56 pm

I do think it is a market that can support it.

Either do I. SRQ can support additional service, just like any other smaller airport in Florida, however there is no way they can support a city that is already serviced by another airline. DL has 7 flights a day to ATL and while they do well there is no way the community can support at least 3 additional not to mention what DL will add as the dominant airline. The community probably could support flights into DC and may even settle with flights to BWI. But again they won't fill three. I don't know who demands 3 flights a day in order to get the grant, but at most airports it is only 2. I see FL flying for the required amount of time and leaving.

Fortunately DL is about to announce new service into several secondary markets into Florida and show the Florida communities how much their loyalty means to DL who has been operating into these markets w/o gov't subsidies. Look for all the new flights to be announced by 9/8, when the winter schedule gets loaded into our system.
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CMHSRQ
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 1:32 am

SRQ can easily support 3 Airtran flights, they can probably support 7 to 10 a day. I would assume that most of the traffic will connect in ATL not O/D there. I was a ramper in SRQ from 94-97 and the airport supported significantly more flights then what is currently operating, In the past 10 years, to many carriers to list have left. Then SWA moved to TPA and the death bell was rung. It is estimated that a million pax drive to TPA instead of flying out of SRQ. Most people complain about the lack of flights and higher fares. We will see if things work out. my fingers are crossed. I can easly see AirTran doing something in SRQ like they have in CAK.
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MAH4546
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 1:36 am

Most people complain about the lack of flights and higher fares.

That's true, but they'll still fly Delta. Once airTran comes in, Delta will match airTran fares, and maybe even undercut them. And most people will choose to fly Delta over airTran. It has happened before (Toldeo, Greensboro, and Tallahassee) and will happen again.

I wish airTran good luck. The market is there for more service, though Delta will find a way to keep them out.
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CMHSRQ
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 2:02 am

Good point MAH4645, so we all know all the current carriers will match fares on the Airtran routes and flights. This should cause a massive increase in pax at SRQ. I'm guessing carriers will probably add flights as well, like FLL and where ever Indy Air goes. As long as AirTran makes money I don't see them leaving. Of course the people need to fly Airtran, if that doesn't happen then they have no right to complain.
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moman
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 2:11 am

Isn't TPA and RSW too close for their to be any sort of big operation at SRQ? I think more flights there are good, I might drive there from TPA if the price is right. I just doubt that it would be anywhere near the size of FLL like Cmhsrq was saying. I think TWA used to have a flight there from STL.

Moman
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A330323X
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 6:09 am

so we all know all the current carriers will match fares on the Airtran routes and flights.

US Airways already offers GoFares on WAS/PHL-SRQ.

That being said, the lowest fares will probably come down a little more.
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CMHSRQ
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 6:39 am

Moman, you misunderstood me, when I brought up FLL I was refering to the massive buildup of flights. It's now a focus city for several airlines all trying to protect market share. I'm sure Airtran will pull down fares and add flights in SRQ, other airlines will want to protect the turf and add flights to keep from losing market share. Of course if no one flies Airtran then it just won't matter.
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MAH4546
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 6:43 am

Moman, you misunderstood me, when I brought up FLL I was refering to the massive buildup of flights. It's now a focus city for several airlines all trying to protect market share. I'm sure Airtran will pull down fares and add flights in SRQ, other airlines will want to protect the turf and add flights to keep from losing market share. Of course if no one flies Airtran then it just won't matter.

Nothing against Sarasota, but it is not that important a market for airlines. There will be no FLL-like addition of services if airTran comes.
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BH346
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 6:51 am

I'd be surprised if SRQ couldn't support a few flights a day. If it had reasonable fares, then it could probably take in a good amount of people in the Suncoast area as well as people from Sarasota, Bradenton, Port Charlotte, Punta Gorda, and the area those cities cover. In some of those areas, SRQ would be competing with TPA and RSW for passengers but I think the convenience of the airport would attract locals and people who are familiar with the area. The subsidies can attract AirTran, which has not shown interest in the airport since they already serve RSW and TPA. I hope for the best for SRQ, I hear it's a wonderful little airport.
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Skyway1
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:04 am

Delta will almost assuredly match AirTran's fares. Here at DAY AirTran announces service to FLL and TPA. Delta then announces MCO and FLL.....no schedules uploaded for TPA as of yet.....and guess what.....DL matches AirTran's fares. It will be good for the airport....I have relatives that live right down the street and the airport is convenient. Beats the hell out of having to drive up to TPA.

Chris
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kith
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:18 am

IS there a list of all the grand awarded this year? -Matt in KITH
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:18 am

The big question is what kind of business community does SRQ have? The prime reason Airtran left TOL,TLH and GSO is not because of a lack of traffic, but a lack of business traffic. If all Airtran gets are a bunch of vacationers and snowbirds, they'll only stay in SRQ until the money runs out and then be gone.

This is one reason why I think business sponsored travel banks are a better idea than just plain subsidies. A travel bank compels businesses to put money up and then actually use the LCC. Whereas a simply cash subsidy does little to bring business travelers in, it just subsidized leisure travelers.

 
papatango
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:22 am

I love it when a city pays another airline to come in and undercut the airline who has been loyal to the city for years. If I was Delta as sure as hell would be asking for my !.5 million too!
 
Skyway1
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:30 am

KITH.....

There is a site that lists the applications and reasons for them to the government. Not sure where it is though(I'm too damn lazy to look around for it). A while back it was posted here.....I remember browsing through and saw that DAY requested a grant to pay AirTran to start DAY-BWI service. Yep...you guessed it AirTran commenced the service just a few months later!

Chris
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DCA-ROCguy
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:08 am

Yeah, Papatango, Delta must have been really loyal to Sarasota, offering lots of low fares. Overcharging a market to the point that they feel the need to seek subsidy to help bring in an LCC means that the incumbent Cartel carrier has not been "loyal." It means they are overcharging. Delta has already extracted far more than "their 1.5 million" from the market.

According to the Census Bureau, Sarasota's MSA (Sarasota and Manatee counties) has a population of 589,000 as of 2000. Wichita has 571,000, and Tallahassee has 320,000. Tallahassee was borderline to begin with because of low MSA. But as FlyPNS1 notes Sarasota is big enough to be viable if there's some business traffic. I was last in Sarasota 23 years ago and don't know what its economic make up is.

When I was there, both Tampa and Ft. Myers were about an hour's drive from Sarasota. AirTran has 12 dailies at TPA (7 ATL/ 1 CAK/ 1 MKE/ 1 PHL/ 2 BWI), and 3 at RSW (to ATL); at that capacity and destination spread, both of those markets probably wouldn't feel much effect from an SRQ station. I'd give AirTran at least 50-50 at SRQ, more if they remain the only scheduled LCC. I haven't heard anything about plans by Independence Air to go there, has anyone else?

Jim
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GroundStop
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:27 am

Not to get off the subject, but just correcting some information about our service out of TPA and RSW. TPA has 13 dailies (the daily GPT turn was left out). Also, RSW has 2 dailies to ATL, one to DCA, and one to BWI.

JP
 
MAH4546
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:33 am

Yeah, Papatango, Delta must have been really loyal to Sarasota, offering lots of low fares. Overcharging a market to the point that they feel the need to seek subsidy to help bring in an LCC means that the incumbent Cartel carrier has not been "loyal."

Delta doesn't overcharge a market. They charge what the market pays. Obviously, the flights might have been expensive, but people were clearly paying the fares. Why should Delta have to lower them? Airline fares are dictated by market demand. Yes, it may make airfares out of reach for some, forcing them to drive to Tampa, but the market controls airfares.
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Logos
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:38 am

Just FYI, Manatee County (where Bradenton is, just north of Sarasota) is the fastest growing county in Florida, which is saying something considering all the growth going on elsewhere in the state.

Definitely curious to see if they can keep this up after the subsidy is gone. Left unsaid in all of the observations that Delta will match fares is the relative ability of the two carriers to make money at the low fare level. The day will come when Delta will not be able to play that game, one way or another.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
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qantas777
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:00 am

MAH,

I do not think Delta will keep AirTran out of SRQ. I think both can thrive in this market and the good folks at MCO HQ have thought this one out...trust me.

 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:04 am

Obviously, the flights might have been expensive, but people were clearly paying the fares. Why should Delta have to lower them? Airline fares are dictated by market demand. Yes, it may make airfares out of reach for some, forcing them to drive to Tampa, but the market controls airfares.

Actually, people weren't paying the fares...according to the article Cmhsrq provided, traffic at SRQ had dropped by half since the early '90s. Airline fares are not simply dictated by market demand, because there are two airline industries. If a market doesn't have an LCC, fares on a lot of routes tend to be artificially high as the network carriers bleed the market. An air market can easily be distorted if the LCC industry is not present. Delta's high cost structure is not Sarasota's problem.

In SRQ's case, an airport with LCCs is just over an hour's drive away, which is a lot less driving than many markets have to undertake. But now at least SRQ gets its own chance to prove that it can support an LCC. Apparently the market has before; I have 1985 and 1986 People Express timetables that show they served SRQ.

Jim
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bwione
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RE: SRQ Receives 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:07 am

Not to be picky, but I don't believe from anything that's out there that AirTran is receiving any subsidies for the Dayton-BWI route. Also, a couple of notes on the Florida service. BWI gets a third daily Tampa trip in October and gets a 737 on one of the northbound flights in December (the aircraft turns to Atlanta) and a second daily Ft. Myers in November (probably seasonal). Sarasota can probably support a daily flight to Washington (and yes BWI is a Washington airport, DeltaMIA) and maybe even a second flight when you consider the possibility of a direct flight from Boston via BWI to SRQ. The more likely scenario, BWI gets one flight and Atlanta gets two. I think we can all safely assume that Delta will match any FL fares out there though.

Tony
 
Skyway1
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 1:06 pm

Bwione.....

I didn't say in my post that DAY recieved the grant or paid it to AirTran to start service......only that it was applied for by the city of Dayton to subsidize the service.

Chris
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CMHSRQ
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:38 pm

Like I said I was a ramper in SRQ from 94-97. The winter/spring of 94/95 USAir had 7 flights a day, 4 to CLT, 1 to each PIT,PHL,LGA. COA has 2 to EWR, 1 to CLE, ATA, had 1 or 2 a day to each MDW, IND, FLL, MIA, AA eagle had ATR 72's 4-5 times a day to MIA, NWA had 2 a day to DTW and weekends to MSP, TWA had 2 a day to STL, USAir Express had 3-4 a day to MCO, as did Comair. This plus the 7 dailies to ATL and 2-3 to CVG with weekends to BOS and a 757 that went TPA-DFW all for DAL. Check out what SRQ has now. USAirways a couple CRJs to CLT, COA has 1 to EWR and COX has a IAH, TWA is gone as is AAeagle, USexpress, Air Sunshine, NWA offers seasonal service. DL offers mainline and express to ATL and CVG, ATA has reduced service. I don't see why Airtran couldn't support to ATL most of the people would connect to other cities in the network. Again in regards to FLL, SRQ is no FLL, however if 5 flights a day are added it's a significant increase in ASM's at SRQ.
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CMHSRQ
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RE: SRQ Recieves 1.5 M Grant For AirTran

Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:29 am

On a side note, SRQ subsidized CO's ERJ flight to IAH to the tune of $100,000 this year. This is an offer to all airlines, add new service and landing fees are waived for the first year.
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