speedport
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:08 pm

Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:42 pm

UAL plans on cutting 6,000 employees and trim an additional 655m out of the operating budget. The plan will be released by the end of this month.

At the same time UAL announced it is recalling 375 FAs - a move which suggests an increase in flying.

Anyone care to speculate where the 6,000 and 655m will come from?

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/8585bc00-fb94-11d8-8ad5-00000e2511c8.html
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Wed Sep 01, 2004 1:22 pm

Domestic mainline operations, mainly sharp reductions or outright converstion to RJ service on marginally profitable or totally unprofitable routes. UA, like other legacy carriers, are getting their ass kicked domestically, the money just isn't there anymore.

Increased flying? 375 recalled F/A's? Yep. All international, Asia and Europe primarily. Depending on what happens at US, UA should pick up a lot of int'l. business out of IAD. I would also look for UA to restart IAD-MXP as well, based on what's going at AZ these days. Time will tell.

And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
ZID
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 4:33 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Wed Sep 01, 2004 1:22 pm

Hmmmm, maintenance maybe? It would be ironic if United axed their union mechanics in San Francisco, and outsourced the maintenance to AAR to perform most of the work at the old (Can you use the word old when describing a seven year-old state of the art facility?) United MOC II facility in Indianapolis.
I'm not joking! This is my job!
 
Thrust
Posts: 2585
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Wed Sep 01, 2004 1:31 pm

I feel sorry for the 6,000 cut employees. But, hopefully this will be worth it for UA in the long run.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Wed Sep 01, 2004 2:01 pm

Wow...one of the articles even mentioned that the 767-200 fleet could go! That's huge...I never would have guessed that...never heard of that idea before... Insane
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Wed Sep 01, 2004 2:28 pm

B767-200 is indeed going. The final pulldown will start in October as the reconfigured 3-class B757s are introduced on the JFK-LAX/SFO transcons.

Indeed look for increased international flying. Some new destinations are in the works indeed in Europe. Dont hold your breath about MXP however.

From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
The777Man
Posts: 5926
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Wed Sep 01, 2004 2:47 pm

I've heard (rumor?) that all ramp work would be contracted out just like cargo and cabin services. Not sure how many total that works ramp but all together, it could come up to 6000. There are about 800 here at IAD and probably more at ORD and about the same at LAX and SFO.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
IL76TD
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:02 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Wed Sep 01, 2004 2:53 pm

I have always believed the best way for united to surivive was to reduce domestic operations and focus solely on expanding internationally. That's where the money is and where they have the ability to really expand their market share.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4928
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:04 pm

I really hope that these changes work out for UA.

Lastly only for them to come back to AKL.
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:27 pm

UAL Has job groups that are union ramp, they are called CG job group. They(UAL) have a lot of OLD CG stations with union ramp. They have already furloughed 18 CSR's out of SEA and 25 RAMP(CG) out of SEA as well. There are Old CG stations like OMA and such that will get the cut, there is NO need for a union ramp in stations like OMA. They wont cut the hub ramp, they will always stay CG. I feel in my heart they will cut many stations, thin Elk Grove, and cut smaller stations and expect more from their own employees.

I feel RES. Will take a hit as well, now 6000 jobs is a lot. Considering they are recalling about 200-250 pilots before year end, and now 200+ FA'S? It has to come from CS,MX,RES, and such. UAL Needs to eliminate a few VIP spots, free up some money that way.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
SFORunner
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:23 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:28 pm

Related Article:

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/8c0269ae-fb97-11d8-8ad5-00000e2511c8.html

The airline could also simplify its fleet of aircraft. “The 737-500 fleet could go, and the 767-200s,” said one person familiar with the discussions. “They are now looking at fleet types, rather than just focusing on a bottom-up approach, negotiating each individual aircraft deal one by one.

“But the network does not require a lot of restructuring. I don't expect major adjustments to hubs.”
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Lufthansa To Replace 733/735 Fleet

Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:37 pm

UA's domestic network needs to be focused on feeding traffic to its international routes. Trying to compete with the LCCs would be pouring good money after bad.

Outsourcing more maintenance is really the only low-hanging fruit left in terms of cost reductions.

There has been consideration of retiring the B767-200s for a long time. They have much higher seat mile costs than anything else in UA's fleet. About five years ago a plan was considered to move premium transcon services to A320s reconfigured with 20F. Looks like the B757 won out.

I agree that UA will see growth at IAD if US ceases operations first. Look for UA to take over US's FF program or at least comp status.
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1636
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RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:50 pm

sforunner,
23 of the ual 737-500s are sched to be turned back to the leasing companies starting on the 8th.....i could see all the 37s going away and sticking with the bus on the narrow body side........
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
na
Posts: 9173
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:57 pm

Bad times. Bad news. One thing is for certain. UA looses 6000 clients that will avoid flying this airline. But UA must act hard to come out of Ch.11. Has any important airline ever spend so long a time under the rule of the bankcrupcy court?

That the 767-200s will be slashed soon is inevitable - one way or another - they´re mostly oldies with 20 years or even more tough service on their wings. Not much usable life left in them, especially in theses times we live in.
 
AZjetgeek
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:53 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:30 am

I wish UA all the success in the world in pulling itself out of Chapt. 11. That having been said, I would tend to agree with IL76TD's suggestion about reducing UA's domestic structure and focusing more on their international route system. UA paid $750 million in the mid-1980's to get Pan Am's Pacific routes. As IL76TD stated, international service is the money maker for UA.

On the surface, TED may have seemed to be a good idea to Tilton and his management crew, but it's not the niche Tilton's predecessors sought so many decades ago. Their previous efforts to compete in the LCC market have been failures. UA really cannot afford to compete with WN or B6 in the LCC arena. To do so, the airline would have to expand further and I would seriously doubt that the bankruptcy court would permit that, given UA's decision to stop making pension payments. You can't spend money you don't have.

My suggestion is for UA to sell much of its domestic routes to either HP, CO or NW. This would accomplish two goals: (1) Immediate injection of capital; (2) Stop the bleeding (losses) on many of UA's domestic routes.
Long live the RJ!
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:39 am

The thing is, for the domestic routes you do not need to sell them, any carrier can fly them if they chose to. What the have that is worth something is some of the International routes to the slot restricted airports.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:52 am

Some of you have no clue what you are saying.
AZJET,
You don't give up routes to get healthy. Why would you give up routes to only let your competitor take them over? That would be giving up market share and put us deeper in a hole.

NA,
They're now 6000 people are who anti-united? Are they going to be joining this site? 6000 people aren't going to be anti-united, most will hope they return to UAL. Most people who have flown UAL will continue to do so, after flying UAL you don't want to degrade yourself by flying CO or AA or DL now would you. Smile

SO IN SHORT, thank GOD none of these armchair ceo's have a say in the company, we would be gone for sure.


UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
aaway
Posts: 1239
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:02 am

The rumor I've heard around LAX is upward of 50 aircraft to be parked by December '04. Possibly the combination of 767-200s and 737-500s mentioned in the previous replies.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
rwylie77
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:48 am

Why not pull the 777's and 747's out of the desert and put them on international routes, and park domestic planes that are unprofitable and try and use US Air and TED as a feeder for their international routes when needed? United already have though such good routes for international flights...
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4448
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 3:17 am

And so UAL is the latest airline to decide that international routes will save the company. Get in line: EVERY legacy carrier has reached this same conclusion. US plans to rule the Caribbean; Delta is going to take over JFK and Latin America; AMR is upping the ante in the Pacific; CO is planning to put 757s at a bunch of mid-sized European cities; etc.

Having lost the domestic dogfight, UAL will now enter an international one. Good luck.
 
LJ
Posts: 4127
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 3:49 am

Why not pull the 777's and 747's out of the desert and put them on international routes, and park domestic planes that are unprofitable and try and use US Air and TED as a feeder for their international routes when needed?

I don't know why many people think that the solution is intercontinental traffic. Yields on US - Europe are already bad (and in some cases really bad) and US - Latin America/Asia/Pacific can only absorb x number of flights before yield will go down. Intercontinental traffic is only a money maker if, like any other market, you don't overflow the market (which is limited) with too much capacity. BTW aren't we forgetting that the reason why PANAM went bust was because they didn't have a domestic network and thus didn't have any feed???

Furthermore, how do you intend to attract a high yield interconitnental traveller if you use a LCC like TED as a feeder airline? Or do people really think that a passenger paying USD 4,000 for AMS-LAX-AMS doesn't mind to be in cattle class for two or more hours when he can fly C-class all the way with a competitor for the same price.

Outsourcing feed traffic to USAirways wouldn't be smart as I doubt the cost of the feed would far exceed the benefit (USAirways doesn't exactly hav e alow cost structure and giving a competitor a chance to steal your pax away isn't smart).
 
cloudy
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:23 pm

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 3:57 am

BTW aren't we forgetting that the reason why PANAM went bust was because they didn't have a domestic network and thus didn't have any feed???
----
Well, they did acquire a domestic airline (National, I believe) to try and fix this but the merger did not work out very well. So a case can be made that the management's botched efforts to fix this problem caused Pan Am's fall more than the problem itself did.

Nobody is suggesting that United abandon domestic flying, just to cut it back and reduce it to more of a feeder status. Another idea mentioned is to turn most of it over to lower cost subsidiaries (TED) or contractors("regional" airlines). These are viable ideas.
 
AZjetgeek
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:53 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:30 am

UAl777contrail - It's not necessary, nor is it respectful, to degrade others to make your point. Invoking the name of God to emphasize your point shows your character, or lack thereof. I have three words for you: GET OVER YOURSELF!!!!!

UA is rapidly closing in on the 24 month mark of being under the protection of Ch 11. Some here want to pin the blame on the unions. Others cite bad management practices. Pointing fingers of blame isn't going to get UA out from under Ch 11 any quicker.

Having difficulty obtaining wage concessions from employees is nothing new at UA. It's nothing new in the industry itself, especially among the major carriers. United's history and legacy are lengthy and sometimes very strange. If you'll recall, Dick Ferris was the first of the CEO's of the "Big Four" who broke away from the pack in the late 70's and supported deregulation.

In the late 80's, UA became the first of the majors to attempt to take on Southwest head-to-head in markets such as PHX and LAX with their ill-fated "Shuttle By United".

Despite all their efforts to regain the No. 1 position among U.S. carriers, UA remains No. 2. I admit I was wrong when I said UA could sell off some of its domestic routes. But I don't think I'm wrong when I suggest that they abandon some of their less profitable ones. When Gordon Bethune took over at CO, that is exactly what he did. He jettisoned routes that were losing money. He sought and found a niche in the domestic market - business travelers.

Glenn Tilton and his management cadre at UA need to re-define their niche. Is it international service, a la Pan Am, is it business class, such as CO, or is it the LCC market? UA cannot afford to try to be all things to all travelers.
Long live the RJ!
 
speedport
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:08 pm

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:57 am

I agree with 777contrail, all ramp, except for the big hubs, will be contracted out.

AZ - you made your points well, but maybe PanAm isn't the best example to cite as a future business model.

MX - They have a big bull’s-eye on their back. MX at MIA will be phased out and most believe that UAL's MX operation will be patterned after WN. WN has over 70% of its maintenance contracted out with the rest at the terminal. Rumors have been flying - no pun intended - around the MX base at SFO. Some find it impossible to believe such a large operation will be closed down. I see that as wishful thinking. The same thing was said over the recently closed Indy MX base. They won't close Indy, they said; it’s too new, it’s too state of the art.

Res - they have had a bull’s-eye on their back for a while. The recent announcement by NWA to charge $5 for a RES booked ticket says it all. There will always be someone to man the phones - to handle problems and the like - however UAL will force the issue with web based E tickets. Up to now UAL has allowed a choice to book tickets, but no longer. If you want low fares, your choices will go the way of in-flight meal service. Those who have access to the web will have no problem. Those who don't will have to pay.

CS - More self check-in Kiosks and longer lines, .

Management - Don't hold your breath. Too many chiefs and not enough indians, you say? Well...some of the ivory tower chiefs will find themselves in front of the public more putting out the fires the indians once took care of. What is the difference between management and employees at a drug store? One wears a tie and the other doesn't. Resistance is futile - you will be assimilated.

I can see where the 6,000 will come from, my biggest question is where the additional 655m will come from.
 
rsmith6621a
Posts: 1507
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:58 am



>Anyone care to speculate where the 6,000 and 655m will come from?<

Reservations Call centers for one..............

Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:42 am

Has any important airline ever spend so long a time under the rule of the bankcruptcy court?

Yes...Continental...spent three years the 2nd time around. Clearly, it was time WELL spent...look at them now. Conversely, look at US who only spent what, 1 year? Look at them now...2 weeks away from Ch. 11 AGAIN, and sadly for the employees, probably Ch. 7.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
speedport
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:08 pm

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:25 am

Good point Steven.

Love him or hate him, you have to agree that Mr. Tilton is effective at making the changes he wants to make. Sure...UAL has been in BK a long time, but what is wrong with that? I don't blame UAL for staying in BK given the sorry state of the industry.

CO stayed in BK until the judge told them no more extensions and the same thing is happening here. UAL wanted an extension until December and the judge said no.

The larger picture is the affect these moves will have on the other legacies. What happens here will carry over to AA and DAL. Employees there should be just as interested in what occurs as UAL employees.
 
klwright69
Posts: 2399
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:53 am

CO entered BK in Dec. 2, 1990. They exited in April 1993. That is 2 years and five months. Will UA stay in chapter 11 longer than CO? Only time will tell.

MasseyBrown, I disagree somewhat. DL will is not close to AA in Latin America (and behind CO also), AA is not close to competitors when it comes to the Pacific. US would like to dominate the Carribean if they are still around. You are right on CO. They see 757s to smaller European markets as a special niche all their own....

 
AirEMS
Posts: 625
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 6:34 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:43 am

Anyone know what impact this may have on DEN? Just living here and UAL being my favorite airline here and I do have alot of friends that work there I hope that they come out of this ok...... Could Ted have had a major impact on this down turn or is this just a build up of things??? (Sorry I'm still just a person looking in  Confused ) Good luck all of you in UAL land I hope this gets better soon (From the son of a Father who work for Frontier the first time around)
If Your Dying Were Flying
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:25 pm

And so UAL is the latest airline to decide that international routes will save the company. Get in line: EVERY legacy carrier has reached this same conclusion.
US plans to rule the Caribbean
Delta is going to take over JFK and Latin America
AMR is upping the ante in the Pacific
CO is planning to put 757s at a bunch of mid-sized European cities; etc.


1. US: They won't be ruling anything unless something changes fast in negotiations.
2. DL: Maybe they succeed from JFK to Latin America, maybe they don't. Pretty volatile area of the world to count on consistent revenues, given the socio-economic and political situations in any given country down there. Biggest brigh spot for DL (and AMR) is if US goes down, their Latin American business will pick up, especially in the Caribbean.
3. AMR: Upping the ante in the Pacific, huh? Why all of a sudden now? Why didn't they do this YEARS AGO. Sad reality is that it's too late. NW and UA rule the Pacific markets. At least they have some NRT slots.
4. CO: Continental and their 757's. EWR-EDI, big deal. Among others. Yawwwwwnnnnn.. They and NW and DL don't have the LHR slots like AA and UA do. Too bad.



And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
lat41
Posts: 461
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:23 pm

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:05 pm

Who knows the UA fleet consist at present?
 
The777Man
Posts: 5926
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 3:40 pm

I think ALL of CG could go including hubs, that plus some cuts at ORD will make it 6000. When was at ramp at IAD in July, they were waiting for new uniforms but they had been delayed. Why order new uniforms if you will contract out the whole department ? I think the reason they will get rid of CG is that their contract is more restrictive than the public contact contract (RR, CS).

Just saw the job cuts was mentioned on Headline News and UA had no comment which must mean that this is true, that 6000 jobs will be cut. If not true, they would have denied the report.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
jfkaua
Posts: 972
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:42 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:01 pm

ahhh I sure do hope they stay up for I booked a trip to Florida on them for my family in Febuary just days before I joined this forum and was enlightened to their problems.
 
airfrnt
Posts: 2002
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:38 am

To answer the question about DEN and UA, I can not see UA shutting down DEN unless they are really really desperate. DEN's airport board has repeatedly stated that they have very interested carriers who want to hub in DEN if UA leaves.

My suspicion is that UA would cut IAD and LAX well before DEN. LAX is highly competitive and UA's margins there are pretty ugly. DEN is there primary connecting hub and they can't cut DEN because they can't transfer the traffic to ORD (which is already at capacity). ORD has great O&D, but UA does not control enough of the market to match DEN's margins.

I can't really see ORD shutting down, even with AA's presence there. I can see some traffic getting moved to DEN for connecting purposes only.
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:43 am

FROM THE 777MAN,
I think ALL of CG could go including hubs, that plus some cuts at ORD will
make it 6000. When was at ramp at IAD in July, they were waiting for new uniforms but they had been delayed. Why order new uniforms if you will contract out the whole department ? I think the reason they will get rid of CG is that their contract is more restrictive than the public contact contract (RR, CS).

Just saw the job cuts was mentioned on Headline News and UA had no comment which must mean that this is true, that 6000 jobs will be cut. If not true, they would have denied the report.
*********************************************************
To add to your wonderful post, very good point on ordering uniforms, it takes 6 months to get them first off(ordering is slow). I do feel Hubs will be safe from the CG AX, but big line stations are going down faster than a dress on prom night. But, that wont be the 6000 jobs, maybe 1000 at most.

I do feel job cuts are coming, and I think at the expense of RR, We will probably contract out RR to Ross Perot and his NOVA SCOTIA diamond mine.

That will be around 4000 jobs roughly, their are around 7000 RR I believe. And the rest will come from us, THE csr'S. With ual adding all the self check-in kiosks, it is obvious that CS will take a bit of the hit. It is a good sign that they are recalling pilots/FA's. That means either we have been using our fly guys and stews so much we need more for our weary comrades or we are continuing to add flights instead of getting rid of them, however I know TED requires more FA's but still..... I do hope Glen and his posse have a plan because we need to know.

Lastly, they need to announce what is going to happen. I wish Glen would read articles from The DENVER POST/TRIBUNE and such and see employees are nervous, let us know. Holidays approach and WE may not be employed, let the backbone of the company rest easy with a simple news real revealing their plan.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL



 
speedport
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:08 pm

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:54 am

Here are the numbers per UAL's COO Pete Mcdonald:

200m from maintenance
150m from airport operations (Ramp)
120m in sales and distrubution (CS)
60m from call centers (Res)
50m from fuel consumption
45m from the regional carriers

These total 625m, not the 655m mentioned in the FT new story.

That story separated the two - 6,000 in layoffs and 655m in budget cuts.

I guess my point is "where will the 655m come from that is not included in layoffs or are the two one in the same?"



http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=13740
 
JC5280
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:24 pm

The 6000 number is speculation by the media because it sells. I challenge you to find any of the media text that quotes a UA rep mentioning the 6000 number. The folks at Elk Grove do not know where the 6000 number came from, but the cost savings numbers are real (but nothing too new).

They are not two seperate initiatives though. The $ figure is the goal of the reduction. This is fact.

More job cuts are enevitable, but who, when, and where they come from is pure speculation at this point. But speculation does not sell papers as well...
 
speedport
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:08 pm

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:29 pm

Thanks JC.

No one has yet to mention the C word - concessions. I am wondering what consideration, if any, has been given to further pay cuts. U air pilots are on the verge of accepting a huge concessionary revision to their contract and I'm sure WHQ is watching the situation very closely.

With 40,000 employees on layoff since 9/11, an additional 6,000 did sound unrealistic so I'm glad you cleared it up. Labor has already been cut to the bone and another 6,000 would be like taking that bone and throwing it in water to make soup.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4448
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:49 pm

StevenUhl and Klwright69,

I didn't mean to imply all those airlines will be successful - just that they ALL are trying more international routes at the same time. Now UAL wants to try it, too, after they walked away from their Latin ops.

I'm not sure what else the legacy carriers can do; but only two or three will succeed with significant international growth.
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:42 pm

after they walked away from their Latin ops

Huh???? They did? When....in the middle of the night? While they have all but abandoned flights out of MIA, they just started ORD-EZE, and continue to operate flights to South America out of IAD primarily. LAX has flights to Central America. DEN just got authority to fly to CUN and I think PVR also. Hardly walking way from Latin ops...

And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
The777Man
Posts: 5926
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:55 pm

UAL777CONTRAIL: I can see an RR office or two going but not the whole department, at least not now. As for the res.center in Nova Scotia, they have MAJOR problems because they can't retain people, people quit after a few months or weeks. They only have about 50-70 people there, not the 200 that they were supposed to have. UA may very well close the office that I'm working in but then I'll just go somewhere else. IF they close res. office, I would think a smaller office like FWA, SBN or BMG would be more likely.

I agree that it's time that managment comes out and tells us where cuts will be. They been talking about cost savings for a long time but never been specific.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
ual777contrail
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RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:04 pm

SPEEDPORT You said,

No one has yet to mention the C word - concessions. I am wondering what consideration, if any, has been given to further pay cuts. U air pilots are on the verge of accepting a huge concessions revision to their contract and I'm sure WHQ is watching the situation very closely.
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Not to say this is the end all of the C word, but with CS they are taking 2 weeks of paid vacation from the senior folks and making the cap out for the vacations a lot less.

That is what was told to us, and they said nothing about any wage concessions. I imagine they are a comin.

777MAN,
Thanks for clearing up the res. Situation regarding Nova Scotia, I had no idea. I assumed they would cut a couple grand, but maybe I am wrong.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:04 pm

I heard on the news (We all know that the news is a full bunch of idiot people when it comes to aviation, etc...) that UA plans to cut 6,000 employees which we all know and will save UA $655 million.

BUT...I also heard that if UA does go forward to the cuts, the workgroups involved with the cuts will sue the airline. Anyone know about this?

Also, the employees also are protesting against the current management at HQ and calling for an 100% ouster of the entire management. Sounds like they want a regime change. Again, anyone know more?

IMO, this is totally bad timing and not realistic thinking by UA. If the employees unions bring a lawsuit against UA, we could probably be seeing the end of UA....MAYBE, but maybe not. Im only saying that because of the legal fees that UA would have to pay, etc etc.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
ual777contrail
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RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:07 pm

If they remove Tilton and the boys we are done. It is a plow in my opinion from the IAM to try and gain approval from us, that they are working for us. They have laidoff 35,ooo people since 9/11 why would they sue now? Idiots
I bet Canale and goons want a raise for their hard efforts of being a speed bump in the way of progress.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
JC5280
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RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Fri Sep 03, 2004 9:46 pm

Too late....FWA, BMG and SBN have been closed for some time now.

As far as the lawsuit goes, I have not heard that before. But I wouldn't rule any lawsuits out. The problem is that under BK protection, there is little you can collect from a company that is under BK. I guess thats why they call it BK protection.
 
The777Man
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RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:51 am

JC5280: The reservations offices in SBN, FWA and BMG are still open, the only one in Indiana to close was INDRR.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Sat Sep 04, 2004 7:01 am

BUT...I also heard that if UA does go forward to the cuts, the workgroups involved with the cuts will sue the airline. Anyone know about this?

If I'm not mistaken, the IAM already tried to sue UA over the pension payment delay/termination. The court denied it and said it belonged in the bankruptcy court. The IAM doesn't care about those employees, they care about the union dues they won't get anymore if those employees are gone.  Big grin
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:21 pm

If they remove Tilton and the boys we are done

Damn right. If you work for UA today, you can thank Tilton and CFO Brace...remember how everyone thought UA would have gone Ch. 7 right away? Well...they would have if that moron Goodwin were still in place.

UNITED WILL STAND...thanks to Glenn Tilton, Jake Brace, and the THOUSANDS of dedicated, positive, professional employees who love United and want to restore it to it's rightful place as the #1 airline in the U.S. For those that don't, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
ual777contrail
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RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:03 pm

StevenUhl777 said,
UNITED WILL STAND...Thanks to Glenn Tilton, Jake Brace, and the THOUSANDS of dedicated, positive, professional employees who love United and want to restore it to it's rightful place as the #1 airline in the U.S. For those that don't, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

couldn't agree more, I know UAL will weather the storm, and when they do? Ual will emerge as a stronger and better airline.

Lets talk about how hard AA has done to restructure their airline, and now CO passing on a pension payment, now it seems UAL isn't the big ol' bad airline like everyone says they are.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
masseybrown
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RE: Major Restructuring Expected At UAL

Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:24 pm

StevenUhl:

after they walked away from their Latin ops

Huh???? They did? When....in the middle of the night?
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They pulled the longhaul flights out of JFK, LAX, and MIA, the three BEST-BY-FAR Latin markets, and added a few flights from IAD and ORD. They'll probably pull down the one remaining LAX flight to SAL as soon as AMR starts the route - in December, I believe. The Mexican flights are low yield seasonal stuff.

I'd call that walking away from the market - giving up the routes on which Panam was number one not that many years ago.