LimaFoxTango
Topic Author
Posts: 804
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:05 pm

Someone please tell me that this big fella for UA is just going for a repaint and not something else. The reason i ask is that GYR seems to be a place where aircraft are sent to be stored or scrapped. I wouldnt like to see this 777 taken from the skies soo quickly...


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You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:09 pm

You can tell that she is not getting a re-paint as she is all covered up.

Many UAL 744s and 777s are stored in the desert. Some re-joined the UAL fleet, some are with other airlines, and some are still in the desert. For more information on the planes, do a search.

It will be a long time before you see a 777 broken up.

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:09 pm

Don't be scared, this T7 will not be scrapped  Big grin

Just put in storage.

Frederic
 
LimaFoxTango
Topic Author
Posts: 804
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:15 pm

Well i was just flipping through more pics from GYR and I notice quite a few 777's are there in storage. Any particular reason why they are being stored? Is it because UA is in hard times and probably cant afford to keep them in the air?
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
IL76TD
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:02 am

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:21 pm

yea, pretty much, they own i believe all of their 744's, so even with the increased operating costs of using a 744 instead of a T7 it is still cheaper than the T7's operating lease payments.

I also believe they are trying to get the most use out of their 747's before retiring them, as the T7's will be around for a much longer time.
 
na
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Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:49 pm

"I also believe they are trying to get the most use out of their 747's before retiring them, as the T7's will be around for a much longer time."

Not true, as some UA744s are newer than many 777s in the fleet. UA has, I believe, more 777s parked than 744s, at the moment. Several 744s have been returned to service, others have been sold, 5 or 6 are still parked.

Why nobody picks up the 777s would be a mystery to me, if I wouldn´t know how damn expensive this type is. Seems that they are too expensive for secondhand-buyers. Some are standing around for 2 years now!
 
Lurch
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RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:57 pm

Hi ive herd that 2 United 777s will be going on lease soon I think its to ETHIAD ive probably miss spelt their name.

But they are supposed to be N205UA/N206UA I think if I find out any more ill let you know its supposed to only be until they get there next batch of A330s
 
na
Posts: 9206
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:01 am

Etihad? Hardly thinkable unless for a one- or two year lease-term as the airline seems to be clearly aimed at a 100% Airbus fleet after their massive order.

I read somewhere Varig might take exactly these two aircraft you mentioned.
 
MEA-707
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:06 am

It's also a matter of the leasing corporation/bank who actually owns the aircraft that they don't want to spoil the market... the same reason why you see top notch offices and appartments in the centre of expensive cities staying empty for years...
Let's say the typical lease rate of a 777 is $ 1 mln a month. United tells the bank/leasing company "hey, from now on we only want to pay $ 800.000, if you don't like it, you can collect your 777." If the leasing company agrees with only receiving 800.000, they have a short term better cash flow but then they will have a hard time to ever lease it or other 777s out again for $ 1 mln if the market pulls up. So they rather gamble that after a while United gives in when they really need the aircraft again or another carrier desperately wants them.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
ramerinianair
Posts: 1452
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:03 am

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:33 am

It is my understanding that when an A/C is due for a huge maintenance overhall, they choose that A/C for parking. It was stated that the 744s that UA has are all owned. They do operate 2 that aren't owned but rather leased from Wells Fargo Bank Northwest and State Street Bank and Trust. Thoose two are among the older 744s so I think they would of opted to store them first. If anybody can confirm that, their registrations are N171UA and N105UA. They still aren't all that old delivered in 89 and 94.
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:43 am

I don't believe UAL has any 747's in storage. The pictures you are looking at are probably from earlier this year, things have changed since then. The 777's that are stored are stored for the reason above, the leasing company wouldn't come down on the price. So my guess is, soon as the lease expires they will return them to the lesser.


UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
SCRAMJET
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:43 am

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:56 am

I may be wrong, but wouldn't it make more sense to store a paid-for plane that's less cost-efficient than storing one in the desert, unused, but still being paid for?
 
GaleaoCumbica
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:11 am

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:01 am

Hi,

I heard that RG will take 2 parked UA T7's.

But I don't know how true is that!

Cheers

GaleaoCumbica
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:05 am

UAL 777 Contrail,

Don't know where you got your info, but UA currently has 37 744 in storage and 8 777 in storage at Victorville among other fields. Check out www.airfleets.net to get up to date info on stored, retired, or new planes ordered by any carrier.

Regards,
AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
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RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:09 am

one more thing,,,talked to my older brother who is a currier with FedEx Air and he said that UA has sold or is currently leasing alot of thier 37 B747 in storage. Not all will be at the storage facilities.

Regards,
AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
starrion
Posts: 974
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:19 pm

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:13 am

37 744's in storage? I don't think so.

At the height they had 15 in storage.

Are you sure you aren't counting older -200's or ther types?
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:19 am

I meant to say 747, not the 400 series alone, the second post I left, corrected, sorry.

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 2:50 am

I don't believe UAL has any 747's in storage.

Here is the exact link for stored UAL 747s: http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/index.php?file=flottecies&opp=United%20Airlines&app=b747

The 37 747s includes all variants of the 747. UAL has either 9 or 10 744s in storage according to Air Fleets. I saw them with my very own eyes in July.

As far as UAL 744 and 777 rumors go, I have heard that Corsair and NWA are looking at the 744s, and RG is looking at 777s. A few people have mentioned Aero Mexico looking at UAL 777s, but that seems to be more of a wish than reality.

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
ultrapig
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:38 pm

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 6:57 am

Ignoring capital costs-on a flight of at least 5 hours-which is cheaper to operate per hour 777 or 747?

Which is cheaper per seat mile?

Does anyone know how the lease rates differ on these two for used aircraft?

Why wouldn't an airlines with peak summer demand like ELAL simply lease some of these planes if they are otherwise sitting empty-are T7 with similar engines configure similarly so that an airline can have slightly different models with the same pilots?
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2567
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:30 am

With UA announcing additional service to Asia, those 744s & 777s in storage will be coming out or some 744s or 777s due to heavy overhaul will replace those that are in storage.

Either way I just hope UA gets its act together. I can't wait to see what the 744s look in the new scheme. I have only seen one and the only 777 to date and it looks pretty good.
 
DfwRevolution
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Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:34 am

Why wouldn't an airlines with peak summer demand like ELAL simply lease some of these planes if they are otherwise sitting empty-are T7 with similar engines configure similarly so that an airline can have slightly different models with the same pilots?

El Al 772ERs have the Trent 800 engines not the PW4000 on these birds, also the UA birds are 772 A-market, which lacks the flexibility of the 772ER that many carriers require. Engine compatibility can be a bitch for anything longer than a short-term lease, one of the reasons Boeing is integrating a common pylon on the 7E7.

I may be wrong, but wouldn't it make more sense to store a paid-for plane that's less cost-efficient than storing one in the desert, unused, but still being paid for?

Actually (I think) both 744 and 772ER are leased, with the 744 at lower rates.
 
UnitedTristar
Posts: 842
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 6:45 am

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:58 am

I know for a fact that UA only has 4 744's still in the desert. The 777's that are in the desert are leased aircraft that will be returned soon and are due for heavy maintence. So pulling the 744's out of the desert and doing the heavy maintence on them now, as they need it as well, as opposed to having to do the 777 then returning them and then having to do the heavy maintence on the 744...It just makes since to only have to do the overhaul on only one jumbo....not two. The ORD PVG route is soon going to a 744 next year as planned and the SFO PEK is going to a 747 and SFO CAN is going to be operated by a 744 so pulling the remaining 4 out of the desert makes since. Two were just recently re-entered into service. I will check with my friend at UA to see if I can get the N numbers on the remaining desert Queens.

-m

 Big thumbs up
 
Lufthansa
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RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:05 pm

Ignoring capital costs-on a flight of at least 5 hours-which is cheaper to operate per hour 777 or 747?

Which is cheaper per seat mile?



Why would you ignore them?

This represents one of the three biggest costs of operating an aircraft so it is important. To anwer the question, the 744 has the lowest seat mile costs on long haul routes. But the big difference is, say, UA has to pay an extra 20% in fuel burn. Lets say fuel is 20% of this airline's expenses. That converts to around an extra 3-4% in total operating costs. Now if you don't have to make lease payments, well, even though one would claim depreciation, that isn't cash flow. Which means it is on paper and doesnt have to be found (as you paid already when you purchased the aircraft).
Hence the NW DC-9s still flying. A few dollars more in fuel but a lot less in leases.
 
jfkaua
Posts: 972
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RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:19 pm

ahh the font color strains your eyes..
 
Thrust
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RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 2:43 pm

The 744s may be cheaper to operate than the 777s, but in the long run they will wear down. The 777s are far too new, far too fuel-efficient, and far too advanced to be scrapped right now. N790UA can't be more than like 6 or 7 years old. The Triple Seven could last well up to 40 years in active service I would think.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
dkny
Posts: 558
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:00 pm

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:21 pm

ET were talking about leasing 2 T7's from United? Anyone heard anything on that?
 
sdkualeb
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:13 pm

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:09 pm

OK Here is my list, there are 11 747 that appear to still be in VCV, 3 which show to be in storage, nose numbers are 8106,90,92. 8 are showing to be sold, not sure what they mean by being sold, weather it was a lease return or someone is picking it up. The nose numbers are 8172,83,84,85,86,88,89,91. As for the 777's there are 8 in GYR 2 showing storage and once again 5 showing to be sold. Nose numbers 2367 and 2990 show storage and 2366,70,2707,08,2789 all show sold. Once again not sure if they are lease returns or some other Airline will be getting them. It looks like 2705 may also be in GYR
 
na
Posts: 9206
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:54 pm

"The Triple Seven could last well up to 40 years in active service I would think."

No way. I bet that a 777 will be as economical compared to newer competition in 20 years as a DC-10 or 747 Classic is now.
I even think its possible that fuelprice-issues will kill any traditionally fuelled airliner prematurely. China´s steep rise does already harm a lot to the demand and price now. In ten years the fuel could easily cost twice as much as now, may be its even worse. That brings in other technologies becoming relevant.
It is well possible that by 2025 we might see 777s scrapped which are just 15 years old. We should even beg for it that technology can provide us with such a leap!
 
rwylie77
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:04 pm

Thrust - just because they are in the desert does not mean they are going to be scrapped!!! They are only being stored there before being returned to the leasing company who with then send the 777's to another airline - Varig has been mentioned for example...
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7190
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:46 pm

Doesn't UA have to do a D-Check prior to the aircraft being returned to lessor?

You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
Lurch
Posts: 721
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:54 am

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 9:10 pm

Hi my info on the 2 UA 777s got jumbled with some other information and ive sorted it out those two UA 777s are due to go to Varig some time soon with a batch of Iberia 757s for Varig as well!
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:50 pm

also the UA birds are 772 A-market,

Um, no. At least 7-of them are ERs my friend.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:29 pm

If NWA does buy any UA aircraft, they should probably start with N106UA, it is a 747-451. At least some of the A/C in storage are going to Corsair, but NWA has been talking about picking up more 744s, so since they have PW powered craft too, that makes sense. Additionally, the 744s are mostly owned (many were even paid cash) and easier for UA to fly right now.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
hz747300
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

RE: UA 777 Gone To Greener Pastures?

Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:33 pm

Aren't all of NWAC's 744s leased? I thought that was the difference between UA and NW.
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