cumulonimbus
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:13 pm

Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:25 am


I was wondering how well the Q's are doing. I have heard that several airlines are looking at them, Including ATA,Delta,and US!!! Is there any truth to this? How are the order books currently? Will it have any future with fuel prices rising as they are?

Mike
 
S12PPL
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:28 am

This topic is becoming as regular as "When will NW replace they're DC9's, and "Why are Air France planes so dirty?" lol

I wouldn't expect any airline you mentioned to buy the Q400 any time soon. Especially since US is supposed to be bankrupt in about two and a half weeks, and out of business. And, ATA just basically announced they're in no possition to buy new planes.
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cumulonimbus
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:13 pm

RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:39 am


Funny reply S12PPl!!! when will NW replace there DC-9's or when is Air france going to wash there planes!!? But the point about US and ATA is Right on the Money. Delta is up in the air and the most legit I think because I was talking to Pilots and a Ramp Manager said There new CEO likes the Q's. Makes you wonder?
Ps for FS 2004 I modded an Air France Plane with the wash me Written on it covered in Dirt!!

Regards, Mike
 
United4everDEN
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:36 pm

RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:40 am

Why do you hate it so much? You can state your oppinion, but atleast back it up.

I have flown on it once, and wish I had done it again instead of the CR7. A 15 second takeoff roll with a 80% load, amazing.
 
supa7E7
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RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:41 am

Zweed, tell us how you really feel.  Smile

The Q400 is cool since it is a lot more fuel efficient than RJ aircraft. It's an environmentalist's plane.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
ba319-131
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RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:45 am

I've flown the ATR42,ATR72,ATP,DH8-100 & DH8-300,not the -400 yet.

Im many ways thet are similar,generally nosier than a jet and vibrate a little more,but apart from that I enjoyed all the flights.

What is so bad with the -400?
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A330323X
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RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:05 am

I have heard that several airlines are looking at them, Including ATA,Delta,and US!!! Is there any truth to this?

Bombardier was trying very hard to sell US the Q400, and Dave Siegel was quite interested in using them at Piedmont. They'd really be a good fit for markets like AVL, CHO, EWN, FAY, HHH, OAJ.

However, Bruce Lakefield doesn't seem at all interested in a new turboprop order at this time.

I wouldn't expect any airline you mentioned to buy the Q400 any time soon. Especially since US is supposed to be bankrupt in about two and a half weeks, and out of business.

Whatever some people think US is supposed to be doing in two and a half weeks, it hasn't stopped them from taking delivery of about 60 new aircraft so far this year, including about 40 from Bombardier, with more coming every week.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
matthewroy
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RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:59 am

I love the Q400. Zweed-- maybe you had a bad flight? I've been on it more times than I can count and I have never had a bad flight.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Non pilus tam tenuis ut secari non possit
 
Olympus69
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RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Fri Sep 03, 2004 8:52 am

I don't think the backlog of orders for the Q400 is very healthy right now. I doubt if Bombardier has come close to the sales break-even point yet. Reliability problems in the early days - particularly with SAS Commuter and Augsberg Airlines, seemed to take a long time to overcome, and that didn't help sales.
 
Carpethead
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RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:02 pm

Problem with turboprops is the image portrayed to the general public. The public thinks if its a turboprop, it's old, noisy, slow, & less safe.
Most of us on this net think otherwise, but we are only a fraction of the world population.

Sales will be slow at best for any t-prop for the time being.

Here in Japan, the Q400 are being ordered because comparable size RJs cost too much to operate. RJs are classified as jets, so despite their lower gross-weights have to pay a greater airspace fees, etc to comparable t-props. Also at Itami there are slots issues that allow only t-prop operations.
Air Nippon & Japan Air Commuter selected the Q400 over the ATR basically because it has greater Japanese content.
 
Zweed
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RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:11 pm

I just hate it because its so small and total lack of comfort
 
S12PPL
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RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:35 pm

It's not supposed to be a totally comfortable airplane, Zweed. It's a regional turbo prop for crying out loud. The 5 or 6 times I've had the pleasure of flying on her, she's performed increadibly. I think it's a great airplane, and I'd fly on it every chance I get. I think she can out perform any other turbo prop out there.
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Blackhawk144
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RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:16 pm

To be honest, I think she's a fun plane to fly. Sure the mechanics must hate it, but I'm not a mechanic, he he he he  Smokin cool. I like flying on the Q400, and I get to do it a lot since I fly QX a lot.

Anthony
Time is the best of all teachers. Unfortunately, it kills all of its students!
 
planemaker
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RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:01 pm

Air Nippon & Japan Air Commuter selected the Q400 over the ATR basically because it has greater Japanese content.

A wee bit of an understatement... the entire fusealge including the V/stab and H/stab are built by Mitsubishi!!
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
N1120A
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RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:34 am

QX actually seems to prefer their Q400s to their CRJ700s. They even converted some orders to Q400. The reason is that they are just as fast over most missions and much, much more efficient. I think they mention something as ridiculous as a 30% break even load factor. LAX gets them more and more for services to vacation resorts like Sun Valley, Utah and Bozeman, Montana
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
hz747300
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RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:44 am

LAX to Bozeman? Are you sure?

A while back in Airliner World, they talked with the head of Horizon Airlines. He brought up the Q400 and said that most customers were not reluctant to fly on a prop plane, and for routes that are about 350 miles, there is no performance difference in time between a RJ, or Q400.

I have only flown on the shorter Q-series, and let me tell you: Don't fly through a thunderstorm in one of those! US Airways Express, LGA to Ithaca, and the aisle way became a river of vomit. What's worse, is as we were walking to the terminal, I saw a 1900 taking off into that mess!
Keep on truckin'...
 
Greg
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RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:02 am

No, that's not entirerly true...QX changed two options because they had more routes applicable for the 400 instead of the 700 in the delivery period where their obligation to purchase is in force. The 700's will still likely increase in number as longer hauls are introduced. Under 500 miles, the Q is significantly cheaper to operate (source is AVITAS).

As a passenger that has flown both---I'll take the RJ over the Q, anyday.

The Q may likely be the most economical 70 seater in the air--but it will shake your teeth out. I've never had that problem in the 700's.
 
A330323X
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RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:35 am

I have only flown on the shorter Q-series, and let me tell you: Don't fly through a thunderstorm in one of those! US Airways Express, LGA to Ithaca, and the aisle way became a river of vomit.

I don't believe US Airways Express/Piedmont has ever flown its Q200s on LGA-ITH. I think the only Dash 8s scheduled on LGA-ITH have been Allegheny's old Dash 8-100s.

(In any event, US has disabled the special "Q" functions on its few Q200s, making them basically identical to its regular Dash 8-200s, in order to save on maintenance and increase commonality.)
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
Arrow
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RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

"The Q may likely be the most economical 70 seater in the air--but it will shake your teeth out."

C'mon, Greg. You've clearly never flown any piston props -- they do shake your teeth out. I've never flown the Q400, but I've flown dozens of trips on the 100 and 300 models (the non-Q versions) and I found them to be extremely comfortable, given their design parameters. I'm scheduled to fly on a 100 this Sunday, and I'm looking forward to it.

Expecting a Dash 8 to give you the same comfort and ride as a 777 is ridiculous. That's like expecting a Ford Escort to give you the same comfort as a Rolls Royce.

T-props are extremely efficient compared to the RJs, and on the short legs (500 km or less) an airline that wants to stay in business and offer a reasonable ticket price would be nuts to use jets. Horizon in the US and Flybe in the UK are proving this out right now. With crude oil at $45/bbl, I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few more Q400 sales -- they would pay for themselves in a couple of years just in fuel savings over the RJs.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2563
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:01 am

Hz747300, it doesn't matter what type of plane one sits in, if you fly through a thunderstorm, the plane is going to get tossed around. I have been tossed around in anything from a Saab 340 to a 744. That's why planes tend to go around these clouds.

Planemaker, thanks for the educating lesson. I didn't realize it was that much Japanese content.
 
Inbound
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 7:59 am

RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:27 pm

In the caribbean, we are flooded with Q300s and we are quickly realizing that 50 seats per flight aren't enough.

whoever doesn't like the Q400, send them all down here, we will make good use of the extra 20 seats and glass cockpit.
Maintain own separation with terrain!
 
dreamcraft
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 8:47 pm

RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:04 am

In the caribbean, we are flooded with Q300s and we are quickly realizing that 50 seats per flight aren't enough.

whoever doesn't like the Q400, send them all down here, we will make good use of the extra 20 seats and glass cockpit.

Hey Inbound,

I could not agree with you more! There was one in Antigua a few months ago as Bombardier was pitching it to both LIAT & C-Star. Hopefully, one of 'em will buy or lease.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
SuperDash
Posts: 352
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RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:18 am

I don't call it SuperDash for nothing. I think it is as comfortable as coach on a 777. Horizon's planes are great rides with great legroom. I would rather be on the Q400 over any RJ and any jet as well (as long as I don't have to fly 2000 miles). I hope to see more in North America. I think this is just another mistake the major carriers have made. RJs cost too much. They pay way too much for regional feed. The Q400 could dramatically cut costs while giving a great base of revenue. Northwest, for example, could cut their costs by 50% on the DC9 runs that are under 2 hours. And guess what? They probably don't fill many more than 70 seats any way, so there would likely be little spill (or hey, add another flight if there is). Anyway, thank you Horizon for being a great airline with great planes and free beer.
 
SUPRAZACHAIR
Posts: 474
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RE: Future Of Dash-8 Q400

Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:16 pm

Anyway, thank you Horizon for being a great airline with great planes and free beer.

LOL, that cracked me up.  Big grin

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