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ERJ170
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7E7 Llikely Routes

Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:32 am

Since there is discussion on the "Big Bird" (A380), I was just wondering which new P2P routes would the new 7E7 open up..

The current buyers are NZ, ANA, Blue Panorama, and First Choice.. as the latter 2 are charter providers (I think...), where is NZ and ANA going to deploy their 7E7?
Aiming High and going far..
 
as739x
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:38 am

I am going to guess ANA to use the 7E7 on some inter-asia routes. Possibly use it to open some new N. American destinations. Las Vegas/Denver maybe? ANA's will have no First Class, so it won't be at SFO/LAX/IAD/JFK/ORD.

ASSFO
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whitehatter
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:41 am

The current buyers are NZ, ANA, Blue Panorama, and First Choice.. as the latter 2 are charter providers (I think...), where is NZ and ANA going to deploy their 7E7?

Anywhere those carriers currently fly their 767s to, and probably some more which are enabled by the 7E7's superior performance.

FCA's Carribbean destinations will probably benefit from the added range and payload, and routes headed east are a possibility.

From Japan there is the possibility of developing the long and thin routes that a 777 is too much plane for, and the 767 not as flexible. Secondary destinations in Europe would be one area to consider.

[Edited 2004-09-05 02:43:52]
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UNITED777300
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Sun Sep 05, 2004 11:51 am

NH's 7E8's will mostly be used on long thin routes, to cities like DEN, MAN, ZRH, plus intra-Asia routes. And the 7E8 could also possibly be their return to Oz. While on the other hand their 7E3's will be used almost exclusively as a 767 replacement on the domestic Japanese routes.
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DLKAPA
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Sun Sep 05, 2004 11:56 am

I won't be holding my breath for NRT-DEN service anytime soon.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
ramerinianair
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:25 pm

Basically I was under the impressions that the 7E7 was going to be very economical and offer the range of larger A/C with out the mass. I figure that a smaller plane with a longer range will allow the airlines to offer routes to Europe from the smaller cities in America.
I figure that they can offer flights like this:
RDU-CDG
BNA-AMS
IAD-OSL
also flights like:
PDX/OAK/SFO/SAN/DEN/PHX/SEA TO KOA/ITO
SR
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DfwRevolution
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:10 pm

I won't be holding my breath for NRT-DEN service anytime soon.

That's actually a very likely route.... UA has many domestic connections out of DEN and NH are Star Alliance partners. The 7E7-8 is not a huge aircraft to fill either... only about 210 seats if they are configured like the 763ER....

I think the 7E7 will help big inland hubs that currently have huge domestic connections but relativly few international flights. DFW and DEN in particular, I could see AA opening up some new routes via the 7E7.... (once they get the money  Big grin )

ANA's will have no First Class, so it won't be at SFO/LAX/IAD/JFK/ORD.

Definitly not... these city pairs are large enough to use a 772ER
 
spacecadet
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:15 pm

I won't be holding my breath for NRT-DEN service anytime soon.

That's actually a very likely route....


Not for ANA it isn't. Is there some big pent-up demand in Japan for travel to Denver that I don't know about? ANA's customer base is about 90% Japanese (even when flying routes like JFK-NRT), so it doesn't make sense for them to fly anywhere that's not a major Japanese destination. It would make sense for them to code-share on a US airline's flight if one exists (and maybe they already do this), but I can't ever seen them filling up a 7E7 on this route in either direction. Unless, they're very sophisticated about travel (or they have no other choice), Americans just don't fly ANA, even though they should.

I wouldn't ever expect to see an ANA 7E8 outside of the Asia-Pacific region or perhaps to cities like Vancouver or San Francisco where there is actually just enough travel demand in Japan to make it worthwhile. LAX, JFK, etc. will still get 747's because there's actually more demand there than they can even satisfy right now.
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777ER
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:12 pm

NZ on some of their B763ER routes also on possible new routes.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:50 pm

For NZ, probably somewhere in the vicinity of AKL-SIN or AKL-KIX. I believe that a few new routes will open up as well. Maybe BKK or DPS or KUL (hope to see NZ there soon again)
 
GLAGAZ
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:50 pm

I think FCA would use their 7E7's for tx services from MAN and GLA etc, leaving their 767's to expand their operations.
Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
 
DeltaWings
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Sun Sep 05, 2004 8:13 pm

......Just a question: Will the 7e7-8 be like an Airbus A340-200? It will be able to take the same amount of pax with similar range ( long-range)

DeltaWings
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MAS747
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Sun Sep 05, 2004 8:58 pm

MH could probably use it on thinner routes that they have, routes that dont fully utilise a 744. Im guess maybe the flights to south america... but i have no idea about the sort of loads you get on those flights
 
keesje
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:49 pm

Just a question: Will the 7e7-8 be like an Airbus A340-200? It will be able to take the same amount of pax with similar range ( long-range)

oh, oh, Deltawings that a very unfavourable comparison for the folks around here .. sh.t .p ! %!$#$!  Smile


IMO the Pan Blue & Fist Choice leisure airlines would not change their destination if they replace their aircraft. They probably got a very good deal to do so, but won´t change their travel packages bacause of it...

Same goes for ANA IMO, as far as replacing their 767´s .. you don´t stop a service because you bought a new aircraft...
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
gkirk
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Sun Sep 05, 2004 10:45 pm

I think I read somewhere on here that Crosswind said the FCA 7E7s will be used predominiatly on long haul flights
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DfwRevolution
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:39 am

......Just a question: Will the 7e7-8 be like an Airbus A340-200? It will be able to take the same amount of pax with similar range ( long-range)

Teehee Keesje  Big grin

The 7E7-8 is actually much smaller than the A342... remember it is a direct 1:1 767-300ER replacement. ASAIK, the 7E7 should have longer range, and a better Z-chart which will hopefully mean it can carry more cargo. The A342 was a little ahead of its time... but the 7E7-8 can always fall back on direct 763ER replacement if ULH point-to-point is a flop
 
zvezda
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:35 am

The 7E7-9 will be almost exactly the size of the A340-200, however the former will have much greater range and lower operating costs.
 
N1120A
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:53 am

The 7E7 will also be much faster and have better performance than the 342 and 343.
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iowa744fan
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:03 am

Well, it has been mentioned before that opening Asian routes to Boston might be an option. As has been discussed, there is a large amount of local traffic for the route.
 
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solnabo
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:44 am

"7e7 will also be much faster/better performance than 342/343"

That´s remain to be seen!!!

Micke/SE  Big grin
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DeltaWings
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:57 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
The 7E7-8 is actually much smaller than the A342... remember it is a direct 1:1 767-300ER replacement.

Hmm. The width of the 767-300 is 4.7m, while the length is 54.9m
The width of the 7e7- 8 is 5.7m, while the length is 56m.

With that extra length and it beeing 1 m wider than the 763 it cant possibly be a 763 1:1 replacement. The 7e7-8 can , will, take more passengers. I would say the 7e7-8 would be more kind of a 767-400ER 1:1 replacement.

Regards

DeltaWings
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VSXA380X800
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Mon Sep 06, 2004 4:04 am

If the 7'E'7 is suppose to be "Efficient' I wouldn't be surprise if they put them on the same routes as the '77s, Are they?
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DKF1
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Mon Sep 06, 2004 5:08 am

ANA/Air Japan currently flies a 767 to HNL from NRT, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the 7E7 used on that route.
 
EddieDude
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Mon Sep 06, 2004 5:32 am

Once more carriers start getting their 7E7's, do you think there will be a chance that someone will decide to fly a 7E7 to MEX?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
UA772IAD
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Mon Sep 06, 2004 8:25 am

It seems that a lot of people are thinking it will replace 767 routes.... here's a question (or 2):
1) Why replace the 767 when it is still a good, efficient, aircraft that is still being made by Boeing?

2) Why is the 767 inflexible?

Just wondering...
 
whitehatter
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:56 am

1) Why replace the 767 when it is still a good, efficient, aircraft that is still being made by Boeing?

2) Why is the 767 inflexible?


1. If that was good design philosophy, we'd all be driving Model T Fords. 767 good, 7E7 better...

2. Who says it isn't? The 767 does suffer some limitations in range and cargo capability, which the 7E7 will tackle and improve on. Which brings us back to 1....
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:41 am

If the 7'E'7 is suppose to be "Efficient' I wouldn't be surprise if they put them on the same routes as the '77s, Are they?

The 7E7 might replace a few 777s/A340s/A330s, but this would be the exception rather than the norm. For many carriers, why lose 50-150 revenue seats (that I assume you can fill) just to save 15% on gas every year? The 773ER can replace older generation 747s and, depending on fleet planning, 747-400...

With that extra length and it beeing 1 m wider than the 763 it cant possibly be a 763 1:1 replacement. The 7e7-8 can , will, take more passengers. I would say the 7e7-8 would be more kind of a 767-400ER 1:1 replacement.

While the lenght/width might be true, when looking at a profile of a 7E7-8 you can see that a greater proportion of the aircraft length is in the stretched tail and nose, but the 767 is rather stocky. The 7E7 will also offer more passenger space than the 767. When comparing seating capacities, they are almost exactly matched-

(3-class) (2-class)

767-300ER (218) (269)
7E7-8 (217)(289)

767-400ER (245)(304)
A330-200 (253)(293)
7E7-9 (257)(~315)

As you can see, the 7E7-8 is really a 767-300ER replacement. This is how Boeing is marketing the aircraft and, suprise suprise, what aircraft is ANA and Air NZ phasing out when the 7E7-8 arrives? None other than the good 'ole 763ER...
 
MAH4546
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:48 am

For ANA, the 7E7 is perfect for opening new routes to Tokyo to cities that can't really fill a daily 777 profitablly...in the US you are looking at Boston, Denver, Miami, and San Diego. In Europe, I'm thinking cities like Brussels, Madrid, and Manchester.
a.
 
N1120A
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:27 pm

<<"7e7 will also be much faster/better performance than 342/343"

That´s remain to be seen!!!>>


It remains to be seen if the A380 will be able to fly as far as airbus claims. Since we go by the design performance, the 7E7 is supposed to fly at .86M and be able to climb out of 767 airfields to fly 8000 miles. The 342 and 343 can't do that
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Carpethead
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Mon Sep 06, 2004 8:43 pm

Now some people have ambitious dreams about NH flying to Europe & N. American but this is only valid if the shorter runway at NRT gets lengthened. Otherwise, forget it. Then again, we have around 5 years before the introduction.

Not quite sure what the breakdown in the NH's order but going from history, they will first introduce it on domestic routes, then Asia, then finally long-haul routes.

Next route structure will depend on demographics. The number of Japanese going abroad over visitors coming to Japan doesn't even compare. Starting next year the Japanese population will start on a gradual decrease. Unless more visitors come to Japan, routes such as NRT-BOS/MIA/MAD will never see the light.

Finally, depending on the situation at Tokyo Haneda, the number of follow-on 7E7 orders will change. If the fourth runway at HND is built, expect the wipe out of all 744Ds & maybe 773/772 from domestic ops. Approximately two 7E3s can be ordered for each 744D and NH could operate over 100 7E7 series planes.
 
JoFMO
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:26 pm

Capethead, just 2 comments:

Japanese population is decreasing, but on the other hand I guess the number of wealthy retires is still increasing, isn't it? And Japanese retires spend a lot of money for travel abroad. In summer all pitoresque European tourist spots are full of Japanese retires.

I don't see all 773/772 and 744D going by the time. Maybe an 4th HND runway will ease congestion at HND, but ITM and FUK are both surrounded by heavy populated areas and I don't see more capacity at them over the time. Especially ITM is still virtually full, and only the proposed maglev train which will do Osaka-Tokyo under two hours might change that. But the maglev is far away from being built.
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: 7E7 Llikely Routes

Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:49 pm

For NRT I was thinking BOS PHL YUL MCO DEN LAS MEX CLT

For KIX I was thinking LAX JFK MCO PHL

IMO I think PHL is the great untapped resource for Asia.

I always thought US should open PHL NRT but don't know if the 762 or the A333 has the range with a full load. If UA was to open the route I think it would do quite well.

-m

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