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mariner
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De-icing - Who Does It?

Mon Sep 06, 2004 8:12 am

I'm interested to know who provides the de-icing service at various airports (DEN and PHL in particular).

Is it the responsibility of the airport or the airline, or any specific airline as provider to all the others?

TIA

cheers

mariner

[Edited 2004-09-06 01:13:00]
aeternum nauta
 
EMBQA
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Mon Sep 06, 2004 8:15 am

In most every case it's the airline. Normally a Grounds Crewman that has been trained to apply the fluids does the cold job.... the lucky one gets to sit in the warm truck.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
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mariner
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Mon Sep 06, 2004 8:22 am

EMBQA:

Thanks, but I'm still a bit confused. PHL is advertising for a de-icing provider for all the airlines - I can't get it to link, though.

It suggests that there is one main provider, and that the individual airlines pay for the service.

cheers

mariner
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modesto2
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:34 am

At JFK, JetBlue uses it own Ground Ops Crew to deice the aircraft.
 
AirEMS
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:37 am

I know in DEN that during the busy holiday season that a lot of Firefighters hire on as Part Time employees I've had a lot of friends go and do that for the holiday cash (just an interesting fact that I thought I would share)  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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freshlove1
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:50 am

Yeah the cold job, tell me about it. I was the "lucky one" who got chosen to go to the class to learn about all the different express and mainline planes and where to spray and where not to, then ontop of that I get to come back to the station and have everyone watch one of these cheesy videos on spraying all the different types of planes and then give them a test to see if they understand. It is really common sense (which I see that some of my employees don't have) and could be taught to someone in a few hours. I see no reason why it took 2 days for initial, but yet takes 4 hours for recurrent and it is the same stuff. They could teach you all the stuff in 4 hours easily even in initial. Then there is the part about the different fluids..Type 1 or Type IV. There is always one captain who screws the whole thing up by asking for Type IV when we are spraying Type 1. But as we are taught if he wants it he gets it. It's really kind of fun to spray one of them down. If you ever get the opportunity just hope you are in a covered bucket or you will smell like glycol for days!!!......Oh yeah just an F.Y.I did you know that propylene glycol (de-ice fluid) is a preservative in twinkees and other foods like that?
 
L-188
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:05 pm

And depending on the airline it could be the ramp crew, the maintaince crew, or contractors that perform the deice.
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Jetmek319
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:36 pm

know in DEN that during the busy holiday season that a lot of Firefighters hire on as Part Time employees I've had a lot of friends go and do that for the holiday cash (just an interesting fact that I thought I would share)

And some airlines will even give the Fire Fighters/EMS/Police a couple of standby passes!
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FriendlySkies
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:57 pm

United does their own de-icing. I know because my uncle is the chief instructor for aircraft de-icing at ORD for UA.
 
N1120A
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:05 pm

Propelene Glycol is also the anti-freeze of choice if you want to not worry about pets or kids getting in to it
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AA B777-200
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:04 pm

At Schiphol Amsterdam, KLM has its own staff to cover this. There's actually also a number of guys who work in offices (Technical Dept.) but have that de-icing "skill" so in peak winter times, they know where to knock on the door.
 
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mariner
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:26 pm

This is all good stuff, but we're missing the point a bit.

I'll use JetBlue as the example, but it could easily be any airline:

Modesto2 says JetBlue does its own de-icing at JFK - but what would happen at - say - SLC? Surely, JetBlue doesn't own de-icing equipment there, so:

(a) do they rent the equipment from someone else and use their own staff, or:

(b) do they contract another airline to do it, or:

(c) does SLC Airport provide the equipment (to be rented to the airlines) and/or the staff to operate it?

(d) are there contractors who provide de-icing services?

As I say, I've used JetBlue/SLC as the example, but it could as easily be Southwest at, say, OMA, or F9 at BWI.

cheers

mariner
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EZYAirbus
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:20 pm

British Airways got their own fleet of De-Icer trucks, they all a one man operation too! Nice warm cab and great fun to drive around at 80ft, they also got new ones that reach out far enough to de-ice the new A380!

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RDUDDJI
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:55 pm

At RDU all carriers or whomever they sub their ramp out to do their own de-icing. Most carriers do have their own trucks. It fact last year I got stuck up in the air due to hydraulic failure in a de-ice bucket while de-icing the tail of a BAe-146 at 9pm at night in a snow storm. Not fun. I had to midair jump into another de-ice bucket from a DL truck to get down! I think you'll find most airlines do their own deicing at airports were snowfall is minimal. I heard a rumor once that some airport in the midwest (maybe MSP) has a de-ice hanger, that works sort of like a carwash and recycles the used glycol.
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qm001
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:05 pm

I think that some clarification will be needed on the question! Do you want you know who does the de-icing at the airports? Who is responsible for it? Who manufactures the fluids? Or do you want to know who performs the physical act? they each have very different answers!

Mariner. Let me know which you want to know the answers for.
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QANTASforever
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 pm

Qantas usually comissions airports to de-ice aircraft.

QFF
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Jetblue15
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:05 pm

As far as Jetblue goes, the only cities where we do our own de-icing is JFK and BUF. Maybe BOS as well. Other cities such as SLC use a contracted company. Off hand I dont know the company but can find out.
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mariner
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:01 am

QM001:

I'm not sure how to clarify it more than post #11.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Basically the question is this: does each airport provide de-icing services, or do independent contractors do it?

I'm guessing, from the later responses, that it's a bit of both.

cheers

mariner
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yhz78
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:18 am

Mariner, in airports where the airline has ground staff they usually provide the de-icing equipment and staff. In smaller outstations where the work is contracted to vendor companies they usually provide de-icing as part of the contract. In some cases (YYZ does it) the airport authority will be responsible for it and contract one company to provide this service for all airlines regardless who does the ground handling.
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mariner
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:48 am

yhz78:

Thank you. That's what I wanted to know.

cheers

mariner
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Refueler1974
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:06 am

At AEX, Mesaba and ASA (Delta) do their own deicing, but we (from the FBO) have to do the job for Continental Express.
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Av8trxx
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:35 am

"Oh yeah just an F.Y.I did you know that propylene glycol (de-ice fluid) is a preservative in twinkees and other foods like that?"

True. Some might be surprised to know how many products they use everyday that have it. "It's stabilizer (in prepared fruits, vegetables and bakery goods) and a solvent in flavor solutions and extractions (in food additives, such as colors, antioxidants, enzymes and emulsifiers)...Propylene glycols are commonly used in many types of cosmetic formulations like-
Skin care (creams, moisturizers, cleansers, lotions, sun care products)
Deodorants and antiperspirants (roll on, stick and gel deodorants)
Hair care (shampoos, conditioners, styling gels, and coloring products)
Shaving products (creams, foams, gels, and after-shave lotions)
Bath and shower products
Perfumes and colognes
Baby care products (baby wipes)
Hand cleansing and disinfecting gels
Color cosmetics (blushes, eyeliner, lipsticks, eye shadow)
Dental care (mouth washes and toothpastes)

Who woulda thunk that, eh?

from http://www.flexpro.com/propyleneglycol/app/foodflav.htm
 
NW7E7
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RE: De-icing - Who Does It?

Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:28 pm

I have noticed at LIT, DL has their own de-icing equipment but I dont know about any other airline. NW uses their own equipment at GRR.

[Edited 2004-09-08 05:29:24]