Matt D
Topic Author
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The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:12 am

Thanks to CALMSP for digging this up.

Anyone remember Pro Air?

Remember how they were to restart using MD-90's instead of the 737-400's? There was a lot of discussion on that topic on this site.

But everyone assumed it was a legend. No pictures were ever found. And to my knowledge, no one jumped on this picture.

Well take a gander at this picture. I see no less than three Pro Air MD-90's on the right side of the picture in the middle background.

So it WAS true!

I'm only surprised that whoever took the picture didn't take better shots of those mysterious planes. I did not see any in the database.

So why didn't the M90 plan pan out?


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gerhard Plomitzer

 
luv2fly
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:20 am

I think they went out prior to the starting up using them. I have also seen a better photo of them on here as well, though it was not a shot about them, if I get the chance I will try to find it.;
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
EZYcrew
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:22 am

What a good sense of observation Matt!

I remembered reading alot about them before they shut down. Particularly when a famous blizzard back in the 90's stranded hundreds of pax inside NW planes for up to 8 hours at DTW, while Pro Air passengers were treated to McDonalds in the terminal, gracioulsy brought by flight attendants who drove to the nearest drive-in.
 
dc8jet
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:48 am

Better shots of them do exist. I have seen them on some of the slide auction sites.
 
Matt D
Topic Author
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:50 am

Anyone know what that 727 in the front right is? It looks like a spade on the tail.
 
Ljungdahl
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:50 am

This had been discussed in the past, when this photo appeared in the DB:

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Photo © Sam Chui


 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
/Johan
 
yow
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:54 am

Anyone know what that 727 in the front right is? It looks like a spade on the tail.

Although I could be wrong, that looks like a parked All Canada Express 727 freighter.
 
luv2fly
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:57 am

You found the picture I had remembered seeing before, THANKS
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
qqflyboy
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:13 am

Anyone know the regs of those three MD-90s? I wonder if they are former QQ birds? And if not, does anyone know what happened to N901RA-N905RA? There is a great site developed by Ben Wang, frequent contributor to A.net, that documents the history of Reno Air planes, but there is no info on there of where the 90s are now. Here's a link to that site.

http://home.netcom.com/~flyqq/index.html

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
srbmod
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:36 am

So why didn't the M90 plan pan out?

To put it quickly, 9/11/01.

ProAir was planning a late 2001, early 2002 restart when 9/11 happened. They decided that relaunching the airline was not the smartest idea considering the way the industry went in the aftermath. Had they relaunched, they probably would have not have lasted more than 3-6 months in the post-9/11 airline industry. Even if they would have decided to go ahead after 9/11, I would venture to think that their backers probably would have bailed.
 
nwa man
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:46 am

I remembered reading alot about them before they shut down. Particularly when a famous blizzard back in the 90's stranded hundreds of pax inside NW planes for up to 8 hours at DTW, while Pro Air passengers were treated to McDonalds in the terminal, gracioulsy brought by flight attendants who drove to the nearest drive-in.


Nice story, but it's a bit misleading at best, and possibly completely false.

Pro Air flew out of DET, not DTW, and as their fleet back then likely only consisted of the two new 734s that Stamper and his crew bought, they wouldn't have such a tough time offloading passengers at City Airport. I'm not making any excuses for NW's screwups that day, but the two situations were completely different.

Likening Pro Air's circumstances to those of Northwest on that day is an apples-to-oranges comparison.


Regards,

N-Dub
Create your own luck.
 
A340Spotter
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:00 pm

Ah my favorite topic, answering questions about my former airline...

N-Dub, the famous snowstorm in fact did involve DTW as we couldn't operate into DET due to the visibility and snow, causing DET to be shut down. We had the 3 planes (at the time, N360PR was still with us) fly into DTW and park on the Signature ramp. Like the rest of the city, we waited until it was over and DET reopened and ferried back over. The pax were treated well and we came out smelling like roses, albeit for the short time after.

As for the MD-90s, QQflyboy, these 3 painted examples were the 2 ex Air Aruba ones and the Aserca colored one, all P4- regs (MDF/G/H I believe).
The Reno ones are still languishing either at VCV or MZJ at this time.

And for Srbmod, yes 9/11 was the final nail, but it wasn't for lack of investment. The bankruptcy court judge that was hearing their case to get restarted and recertified laughed at the carrier, saying that no small low fare carrier was going to make it in a post 9/11 society. Their hearing was right around 9/11, I believe either the 14th or 17th, not 100% sure at this early time of the morning, but in reality, I think they would have had a fighting chance to survive in their second coming.

All in all, the MD-90s looked great in the feather scheme and I proudly hold one of the MD-90 slides shot rampside at MZJ which we all know is quite hard to do. There is but one person who makes those shots happen...and he's not on a.net

Cheers
Jeffrey
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
psa188
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:51 pm


The Pro Air MD-90 slides were auctioned off on Alpha Tango.
http://www.auctiontransportation.com/html/topsales.html

The seller may or may not put more up, I have no idea but it might be a good idea to montor the site from time to time.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:58 pm

I usually detest comments about bad experiences with a particular airline, as everyone has at lease one. But Proair was just a disaster.

Everyone with whom I came in contact with was sooo unprofessional, and down right rude. I flew them only once, DET-LGA-DET and they made my all time no fly list up there with Peoplexpress and Southwest.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
azo
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:51 pm

I flew ProAir four or five times to PHL, EWR and LGA and I do not recall having any poor experiences. Maybe once was not enough to get an accurate experience of the airline. There are always bound to be screwups once in a while, but just flying them once does not mean every trip or crew is bad.
Kalamazoozoozoozoozoozoozoo
 
qqflyboy
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:50 pm

A340Spotter...

Thanks for the info! I sure wish those MD-90s could find a good home with someone. I miss working on them. BTW... did you know or hear of Jimmy Dunn? He was our director of in-flight at QQ and last I knew he was working for Pro-Air at the Seattle HDQ.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
DC3CV3407AC727
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:53 pm

I used to jumpseat them quite a bit between DET-EWR, I thought they were a good group,quite professional, and I was sorry to see them go.
the rumble of round engines is like music to me,likewise the thunder of thr JT8D
 
A340Spotter
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:49 am

Qqflyboy,

Jimmy Dunn's name sounds familiar, but I can't place what he did for us at Pro Air. We did have a pair of Reno Air folks that I was quite familiar with, Jim Walsh and Amy Chamberlain. Amy's still a good friend of mine, she was like me, a former Supervisor of Operations Control.

Jeffrey
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
qqflyboy
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:04 am

Yes, I remember both. Jim was once the GM at the RNO station and if I remember correctly, Amy worked in Ops at RNO, also. Jimmy probably would have been in the in-flight department, maybe even director like he was at QQ. Thanks for the info.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:30 am

any idea who actually owns those MD-90's?
 
DIA
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:32 am

In Reply 5, notice the photo. Is that a NW MD-80 on the far right of the picture? NW had to retire them early? Or was this an early 1980s MD-80?

Here is another pic of the possible a/c. . .
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Photo © Joe Pries - A.T. TEAM

Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
D950
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:54 am

Looks a lot like an old DC9-50, possibly a refugee from Eastern??
Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
 
DIA
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:06 am

Well, I just blew up the photo to its largest arrangement, and it definately shows not just one, but two NW MD-80s.

Thanks. I did also think of the DC-9-50, but. . .(above)
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:28 am

Per Bill Harms' old reliable website, which is still up BTW.
MD-90 line #2238 is P4-MDF
MD-90 line #2242 is P4-MDG
Md-90 line #2246 is P4-MDH
All are owned by some leasing company with these initials...HWA-HSIA.
I have no clue as to what leasing company is that. Hope this helps. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
A340Spotter
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:37 pm

Qqflyboy,

Something tells me that Jimmy never made it to the office in Seattle. He may have gone out to DET at one point, but didn't stick around long. Amy's now with Evergreen by the way...

Clickhappy, FlagshipAZ mentioned the leasing company HWA-HSIA. It's a Taiwanese based leasing company. They ordered 3 with 7 options in fact for Asia-Pacific region airlines back in 1996 (Aug. 1 press release), however these airplanes listed above were not part of the order to my knowledge.
I was under the impression that Boeing Capital actually owned these 3 MD-90s in question and with the Boeing-Stamper family connection, this was the reason these ones were scheduled to go to Pro Air. The airline was also to receive 5 more MD-90s shortly thereafter these 3 (for a total of 8), presumedly the QQ ones, but that never came to light.

Jeffrey
P9 employee 51
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
KarlB737
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:42 am

Jeffrey, Where is Mr. Stamper today and whats he doing. With what YOU know could he reactivate ProAir now and get these aircraft?

[Edited 2004-09-09 17:43:48]
 
A340Spotter
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RE: The Legend Of The Pro Air MD-90's

Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:33 am

Karl,

Not sure what Kevin Stamper is doing, but likely still practicing aviation law in the Seattle area if I was to guess. We had a Pro Air reunion about a year ago but he didn't show unfortunately.
As for getting those planes back up and running, it's out of their hands and back into the lessors. Sadly, there will be no more Pro Air, or at least none run by Mr. Stamper.

Jeffrey
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"

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