DfwRevolution
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Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:37 am

From Yahoo groups...

Flight International had a report in August about Ariana Afghan Airlines' plan to purchase 3 Boeing aircrafts. Inital opperations are likely to begin with a singe 744 Combi, 1 767-300ER, 1 767-300F

Regards,
DFW
 
cedarjet
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:51 am

Good for Boeing, I guess this purchase will be supported in some way by the US Gov't, I think at this point any 747 sales are good for all. Hard to know if Ariana need that much capacity but they were flying DC10s (Frankfurt?) in the late 70s and the 80s, even after the Russian occupation started (indeed, one of the DC10s was hit by a Stinger missile on approach to Kabul, but landed safely). So perhaps the market is there - good news if it means Afganistan is safe for expats to start travelling home, trade etc.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
N1120A
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:01 am

I really doubt they would buy those planes brand new. The would probably get then from Asiana, KLM or someone of the sort
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:01 am

Good for Boeing, I guess this purchase will be supported in some way by the US Gov't, I think at this point any 747 sales are good for all

I was under the impression that all the aircraft would be used.... I don't think Afganistan is a position to be ordering all-new aircraft...

Hard to know if Ariana need that much capacity but they were flying DC10s (Frankfurt?) in the late 70s and the 80s, even after the Russian occupation started

Well it is a combi.. which means it will probably have about 200-250 seats once cargo is loaded
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:49 pm


The would probably get then from Asiana, KLM or someone of the sort

Right on, KLM has a number of 743s in storage as well.

Any chance that the Indians will donate AIs 742s to them, or maybe even their two 743s?

Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
mrniji
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:54 pm

Any chance that the Indians will donate AIs 742s to them, or maybe even their two 743s?

Good point, DIJKKIJK! I personally have no idea, but would not be surprised if this happens for the 742s, which are retired as of Winter SChedule. For the 743s Combis, which in my eyes are a very suitable aircraft for AI, I do not think so, they are only 16 yrs old.

What I find strange. As I read this announcement, I of course again got a shock... no wonder that we Americans will try to press them for Boeing aircraft.. I hope they will have the sovereignty soon to decide without pressure which product they prefer. Then, the 'winner' has won in dignity!  Wink/being sarcastic



"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
mrniji
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:32 pm

By the way, how is the condition of AIs 742s? Are they as run down as apparently the ex.SQ 744 or can they serve the market for another couple of years?
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:37 pm

AI's 742's? Arent they being kept as "Hot Spares" for VVIP junkets?

-Roy
 
mrniji
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:38 pm

AI's 742's? Arent they being kept as "Hot Spares" for VVIP junkets?

AFAIK the Prime Minister has taken the 744 as VVIP a/c the last times?? Does anyone know more?

Last year in Berlin he came with AI 001, which was a 742. But then I remember that fr the UN in Sep, he took the 744, which was parked for a week..

"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Fokker50
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:16 pm

Well, I think that they need some A320's to replace their 727's, and some Fokkers to replace their older russian a/c.
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pilotaydin
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:25 am

i think the real problem lies in fixing Kabul airport. My father is a regular visitor of Kabul, he was onboard the Ariana A300 that busted the noise gear on takeoff and had to circle and land a "soft-field" on the runway, with full up elevator and finally when their nose gear touched down they ran off the side of the runway into what my dad said was an old mine-field planted by the Taliban. He didn't take pics can you believe this?!?! He says that Ariana are improving in all aspects and he enjoys flying on the A300 from IST, or on the 727 from DUBAI, i have more details on his incident if you wish. Just wanted to add in and say better a/c for Ariana wont go far unless there is a lighted a/p and better paving

cheers
ayd
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:29 am

By hot Spares meaning that a 742 would be readily available if a 744 could not be set aside at short notice. Atleast part of the lease fees for a couple of the 744's are being reimbursed by the GoI. Another of the subsidies that AI recieves from the Bharat Sarkaar!

-Roy
 
behramjee
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:40 am

Very very smart fleet plan...theyve realized that they will be more CARGO coming into Afghanistan than passengers which is the obvious scenario due to the country's reconstruction-international aid work-military equipment etc.

I would have prefered it if 2 B 763Fs were obtained due to the flexibility of having 1 spare in case the other breaks down and also for the fact that one can be used for PAK-IND-DXB-SAUDI flights where as the other exclusively for FRA-CDG-LONDON-GVA !!!

 
mrniji
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:54 am

Just wanted to add in and say better a/c for Ariana wont go far unless there is a lighted a/p and better paving

Maybe they can once get the IC double boogies for this purpose..

Anyone any idea whether IC is planning KBL sometime? By the way, I like
DIJKKIJK's idea of gifting the 742s to FG.. then, AI woudl get a modest price from the GOI for them and, as Roy says, it would be Another of the subsidies that AI recieves from the Bharat Sarkaar!  Wink/being sarcastic  Yeah sure  Nuts
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
debonair
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:39 am

@Mrniji
@DIJKKIJK


Any chance that the Indians will donate AIs 742s to them, or maybe even their two 743s?

I dont know why they should, the US did it already!!!  Nuts


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LVZXV
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:03 am

That's a crude 747 if you could actually call it that--note the piece missing off the L2 door!
I think the 727s they have are actually pretty ideal for operations in Afghanistan--they remind me of LB's in Bolivia. As for "Russian aircraft", I believe they only have one serviceable An-24, but then again, that too might have been retired. All its sister planes--Tu-154s, Yak-40s and the like--were destroyed during the Soviet occupation, the ensuing civil war, the Mujahiddin, the Taliban, and the US bombing raids, including some of the original 727s.
Only one of their aircraft, their 727-200 YA-FAY, has survived all the carnage, a miracle given that it was delivered to Ariana in 1992, i.e. when the Mujahiddin came to power. The aircraft had already gained a little infamy in February 2000 when involved in the much-publicised hijacking which saw the plane cross Central Asia, Russia and Europe, before ending-up at STN. Thank God there was no blood shed.
I remember seeing the plane parked next to the runway with doors open and lights on when taking a Ryanair flight a couple of days after the ordeal had ended.


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Regards,

ZXV

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behramjee
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:33 am

The TU 204/214 aircraft is a good fit these days for Ariana as its relatively modern and v cheap and has a B 757 pax capacity and decent nonstop flying range of around 6-8 hours.

Aeroflot uses this form of aircraft on the SVO-BOM-SVO route.

This aircraft is too starting to be a popular one with cargo operators in Western Europe and Russia.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:35 am

I hope they will have the sovereignty soon to decide without pressure which product they prefer. Then, the 'winner' has won in dignity

How many other combi's can carry 250 passengers and a half a freighter full of cargo? The 744 Combi is the only aircraft in its market...
 
Hirnie
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:44 am

Pilotaydin is right in saying that Afganistan has to fix its problems (with its allies) at it`s airfield in Khabul before running an international airline.

By the way, does LTU still fly to Khabul? If not, when did they stop the service?
 
LVZXV
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:46 am

DfwRevolution:

How many other combi's can carry 250 passengers and a half a freighter full of cargo? The 744 Combi is the only aircraft in its market...

The MD-11?

Regards,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
Hamlet69
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:03 am

"I really doubt they would buy those planes brand new."

The 747-400M and 767-300ER can probably be acquired used. However, AFAIK, there are no 767-300F's to be sold/leased in the forseeable future. UPS is using all of theirs, as is LAN, and NCA is looking to add 1 or 2 more, from what I hear. Asiana could possibly be the source, though I doubt it.

Regards,

Hamlet69
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:26 am

DfwRevolution: The MD-11?

No... while the MD-11 is available as a combi, it can't carry the passenger and cargo load of the 744. The 744M has roughly the passenger capacity their DC-10s had and a substantial amount of main deck cargo. See for yourself-

http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/acaps/md11sec2.pdf
http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/acaps/7474sec2.pdf

Also, does anyone know who ordered any of the MD-11 combis? I only know of the 5 Alitalia MD-11-Convertible models, and of course, the freighter/passenger conversions.
 
Fokker50
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:22 am

Well, from my two points of vew, the can:

1 They can introduce to Afghanistan new a/c such as the 763 and 763F, the 743combi, but the big problem is that Ariana need money to pay the new pilots the preparation to this new types of a/c in the region.

2 The other is that they can get some A310 from the desert, and they don't need to train pilots because some of them are allready with the A300, and to replace the 722, they can use some used a/c.
And to replace the russian prop birdy, they can buy some Fokker 50's to the operational job in the domestic Afghanistan.

Fokker50
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StevenUhl777
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:38 pm

Ariana forgot to take off the UA logo and the phrase "Worldwide Service" from the 747's ex-UAL days...either that or Ariana is restarting in a big way!

And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:05 pm

Ariana forgot to take off the UA logo and the phrase "Worldwide Service" from the 747's ex-UAL days...either that or Ariana is restarting in a big way!

They should have retained the Star Alliance logo as well.

 Laugh out loud
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
mrniji
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:14 pm

@ Fokker50

The idea with the 310 is not too bad.. maybe sometime they get ex-AI ones  Big thumbs up

How many other combi's can carry 250 passengers and a half a freighter full of cargo? The 744 Combi is the only aircraft in its market...

If I argued the way you do, I could even argue in favor of the 380 in saying: how many a/c in the world are able to carry as many pax as...?

But here it is the qhestion of affordability, and as DJIK... and Fokker50 proposed: the idea of 310 and ex-AI742s are not too bad - but they should decise themselves (btw, how about converting the 742s from an all pax to a combi??)
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
B747-437B
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RE: Ariana Afghan Fleet Plans

Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:13 am

AFAIK the Prime Minister has taken the 744 as VVIP a/c the last times?? Does anyone know more?

VT-ESN is the designated VVIP aircraft at this time. She is switched in-and-out of the fleet and VVIP configuration depending on the PM and President's travel schedules.
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