After the announcements made today, what's up there for Salt Lake City as a DELTA hub?

New routes?

More aircrafts?

Larger aircrafts?

RJ's?

International destinations?

Sky Team members coming here, besides AM?

What rank will it hold as a DELTA hub? 3th Delta's hub?

Airport improvement?

Or, none of the above????

All the above excluding the addition of SkyTeam members. Unless you count NW and CO when they become part of SkyTeam.

Sounds like the routes that might interest you are: SJD, CUN, FLL, TPA, OGG with mainline aircraft.

Can someone find out if DL will fly SLC-ELP now, because they flew 2 or 3 daily flights between DFW and ELP. It would be greatly appreciated.

Yes, SLC-ELP will be reinstated as a Connection route. As will SLC-SAT and SLC-AUS, so I've heard.

SLC-MSY/TPA/FLL, two daily nonstops to each city, probably using 738 aircraft. FLL may get a 757 who knows.

Thank you CMB320 welcome to my respected users.

What about SLC-ANC.... ???

SLC to ANC is a current flight, DL uses a 762 for the 4 hour and something flight. Hope this helps Lono.

Texasflyer
Thanks I guess I should have been more informative!!!
I was wondering about any additional ANC-SLC flights... usually goes to 2 flights a day an 757 and a 767 in the winter.... is this gonna be the same this winter..??

I think the schedule get loaded into the system on the 18th of this month for the world to see.

International destinations?

Except for Mexico and Canada, I can't see international flights out of SLC. They should have kept DFW. I guess my humble little opinion doesn't mean much, especially to the thousands that will lose jobs.

Does anyone like the idea of Mesaba extending their RJ Avro service from MSP-ASE on to SLC and just put the "DL" code on that portion of the flight to feed the SLC hub during the winter?

ICT is getting 3 flights a day to SLC with RJs.
ICT is loosing all DFW service Jan 30.

At SLC we've been told we're adding 3 flights a day to Burbank, Austin, El Paso,San Antonio & Wichita. 2 flights a day to Fayetteville Ar, & 2 to LIttle Rock Ar. 2 flights a day to Ft Lauderdale, Tampa & New Orleans, 1 flight a day to Cabo, Hayden Co, & Maui. We will see more capacity between SLC and ATL
We have also been told we will be taking back the B gates we left last year, and that in the future (by early summer next year) we may see up to 8 International flights originating/terminating in SLC.

[Edited 2004-09-09 14:11:51]

I've never been the SLC airport but I have a question. Why does Denver work so well for United, but to date, Delta hasn't had as much success with Salt Lake? I suppose this will change now that Delta is retreating from DFW.

This is on Deseret News from SLC


"Delta to grow in Salt Lake

Airline to add 58 flights here despite plans to cut up to 7,000 U.S. jobs
By Jenifer K. Nii
Deseret Morning News

Forget cutting back. When it comes to Salt Lake City, Delta Air Lines is beefing up.

Delta Airlines employee Steve Donelson loads baggage onto a plane at Salt Lake International Airport, a Delta hub.

Keith Johnson, Deseret Morning News
Delta announced Wednesday that it plans to add 58 flights here while drastically cutting operations at its Dallas/Fort Worth hub.
At an employee meeting broadcast over the Internet Wednesday morning, Delta chief executive officer Gerald Grinstein outlined the airline's "Transformation Plan," which calls for the elimination of 6,000 to 7,000 jobs over 18 months, de-hubbing Dallas/Fort Worth and ramping up activity at its Salt Lake, Cincinnati and Atlanta hubs. In all, Grinstein said, 51 percent of the company's network will be restructured by Jan. 31, 2005.
Such drastic action is necessary, Grinstein said, if Delta is to avoid bankruptcy and remain competitive in the rapidly changing airline industry.
"To get our customers where they want to go, when they want to go, we will aggressively compete in our key hubs and cities and invest and grow where there is the greatest demand," Grinstein said.
"Difficult decisions had to be made. A commanding market presence is crucial, and we could never have that at Dallas/Fort Worth. The de-hubbing of DFW along with other actions support Delta's strategic objective of retaining and building a stronger competitive pattern of service at Atlanta, Cincinnati and Salt Lake City."
In Salt Lake City, Delta will add 58 flights by February 2005, including 13 added nonstop destinations. Twenty-one of the 58 new flights will be under the Delta banner, with the remaining 37 as Delta Connection flights.
Delta's new nonstop destinations from Salt Lake City will include Austin, El Paso and San Antonio, Texas; New Orleans; Maui, Hawaii; and Cabo San Lucas, Mexico.

"Never an issue"
Despite analysts' speculations that Salt Lake City was one of the Delta hubs being considered for reductions, some close to the airline say it was never a legitimate possibility.
"I had been thinking that we'd be adding flights for some time," said Summit County-based Delta pilot Ed Thiel. "That part about closing the (Salt Lake) hub was not backed up by facts."
Anthony Black, Delta spokesman, said the closing of the Dallas/Fort Worth hub was "never an issue" of either-or.
"It was never an issue of one or the other," Black said. Rather, he said, the decision to bulk up the Salt Lake hub was one of "strengthening and building up something that was already well-established, while protecting East-West flow, which is important."
James Wood, director of the University of Utah's Bureau of Economic and Business Research, hailed Delta's plan as "very significant" to Utah's economic well-being.
"It's enormously important," Wood said. "To have an efficient and growing transportation system is really vital. What has made Utah appealing is that we had such good service by air to many parts of the country, particularly the West Coast."
The airport also is a center of economic activity, Wood said, not only because it employs thousands but also because of the business it attracts and generates.
"It's one of the most important economic centers in the state. It generates all sorts of economic activity — from land development to industrial parks. All are tied to the activity at the airport. If we would have lost Delta, it certainly makes that area less attractive. There would be less employment, less wages and so forth."
Further, Wood said, having a hub gives Salt Lake City a transportation advantage and distinguishes it from competitors.
"Portland doesn't have a hub. Albuquerque doesn't. Reno doesn't. Boise doesn't. These are all cities we compete with regularly, cities that don't have the advantage of a hub," Wood said. "So the fact that Delta is going to stay and expand their operations is very significant. Now if they just don't go into bankruptcy."

Jobs, jobs, jobs
Delta's Black said it is "too early to determine" if there will be employment changes in Salt Lake City as a result of the restructuring. However, he said, "obviously, we're moving a percentage of our operation there."
Black also said Delta has not disclosed any estimates of the plan's dollar impact on Salt Lake City or its airport.
St. George-based SkyWest, Delta's Utah-based regional partner, said it and its Delta Connection sister carrier, Atlantic Southeast Airlines, will pick up the airline's additional Delta Connection flights out of Salt Lake City.
To handle the work, SkyWest spokesman Philip Gee said the airline will add about 150 more gate and ramp workers to its team of 2,000 in Salt Lake.
Atlantic Southeast Airlines will bring in about 35 maintenance workers, up to 175 pilots and as many crew members, according to spokeswoman Gina Pesko. ASA, an April 2003 entrant to the Salt Lake market, currently operates "only a handful" of flights out of Salt Lake International, Pesko said. After February 2005, that will increase to 43 departures.

Sadness in Dallas
In Dallas, about 2,000 Delta jobs are expected to be cut. In a statement released shortly after the Delta announcement, the Dallas/Fort Worth airport said it is "evaluating the financial impact to the airport regarding possible Delta operating decisions and will be implementing cost-cutting procedures to respond as needed."
Meanwhile, the statement said, "DFW is already in dialogue with a number of other air carriers who have expressed some interest in expanding service at DFW or initiating new service."
"With the most capacity of any airport in the world, DFW is fortunate to have the size, competitive cost structure and local market strength to 'backfill' many routes reduced by Delta," Jeff Fegan, CEO of the Dallas airport, said in the statement.
Dallas does not expect to make staff reductions at this time. No local tax dollars support the airport, so DFW said there will be no financial impact on its owner cities. However, the statement said, DFW estimates a $20 million revenue loss in fiscal 2005 over original projections, based on Delta's restructuring and taking into account American Airlines' recent announcement of 70 new daily departures.

Belt tightening
Grinstein said Delta is in about 110 percent debt "given the rapid deterioration of this company's financial condition, due to low yields, uncompetitive labor costs, high fuel prices and the debt burden.
"All of those pieces put together, including possible operational disruptions, (mean that) bankruptcy is still a possibility," Grinstein said.
The changes announced Wednesday were designed to allow Delta to meet its goal of saving $5 billion by 2006. The company has saved $2.3 billion since 2002, Grinstein said.
In addition to flight redeployments and the Dallas de-hubbing, Grinstein said Delta will reduce administrative overhead costs by 15 percent, increase employee responsibility for health-care costs and cut employee pay companywide. The pay cuts will be announced later this month and implemented "at a later date," according to Delta.
Plus, Delta is still negotiating with its pilots to reduce costs. The airline wants $1 billion in concessions from its pilots. Pilots had previously offered $705 million.
Thiel said Wednesday that negotiations are continuing in "subject matter subgroups."
"We're talking big changes in crew scheduling and retirement. Some of the issues are very complex. They're taking a lot of time and effort to work out, but there is progress being made," Thiel said. "I think we're all aware that there's a time line to these things. It'll get done. We're willing to step up and help out, but pilots are just part of the solution."
The bigger issue, according to Thiel, is Delta's debt renegotiation effort. In the past three years, Delta has reportedly lost more than $5 billion. It has cut 16,000 jobs, and Grinstein said Wednesday that more job reductions are possible.
"Given the severity of our financial situation, there are no guarantees for success and there is no time to waste, but with this plan and the commitment of Delta people . . . I am realistically hopeful about Delta's future," Grinstein said.
Delta stock fell 44 cents per share, or almost 10 percent, to close at $4.04 Wednesday on the New York Stock Exchange."

Good news for SLC, but the DL route map will look weird with all the eastern dominance and the lone western hub at SLC without DFW linking the two areas.
Best of luck to all those DL DFW folks.

Has Delta thought about relocating some employees from Dallas to Salt Lake City?

So far I know one of their major financial problems is pilots wages. DL's pilots have the best income in the local industry.

and that in the future (by early summer next year) we may see up to 8 International flights originating/terminating in SLC.


Including Canada and Mexico?

N

Doesn't Skywest also have 7 RJs coming online for Delta Connection next year (deliveries in Feb, March, Apr, and May)? Looks like those will definitely end up in SLC now.

Do you people know if there are any routes served by Western Airlines back then from SLC not served today by DL?

Not sure but I guess Western used to fly SLC - Fairbanks and Juneau.

I don't have time right now to do a comparison of the SLC hub and the Western ops. But here is a route map of Western from 1987, just before the merger, that should answer the question.
http://www.airchive.com/Timetables%20and%20Maps/Western%20Compressed/WAmap8703final.jpg

"Why does Denver work so well for United, but to date, Delta hasn't had as much success with Salt Lake?"

I have always wondered the exact same thing.

I think DEN is significantly more populous than SLC, this may be part of the reason DEN works better. UA also has a more extensive west-coast route structure (DL has nothing analogous to UA's SFO and LAX hubs and SEA focus city), so I think that DEN serves as a much more major hub than SLC does. IIRC DEN is UA's second-largest hub.

What rank will it hold as a DELTA hub? 3th Delta's hub?

Yes, it will retain the ranking that it's long since had, as #3.

That announcement was very good news for SLC. And what's this about 8 international routes?   Right now, there's nonstops to Vancouver, Calgary, Mexico City, and Cancun, and Cabo San Lucas is being added. So....what would be the three additional cities? More service to Canada (esp. on mainline birds) would be a plus. Flights to Guadalajara, Central America, or South America would be good. And of course a flight across the Atlantic.

The flight to Maui interests me a lot, that's one flight I could see myself booking in the next year or so.

Bubbinski

And of course a flight across the Atlantic

What real incentive does DL/SkyTeam have to grant SLC a nonstop transatlantic flight....

I would think the demand would be there for at least one transatlantic flight, between the ski resorts, summer tourism to places like Yellowstone, connections to other Western cities/areas, and local Salt Lake/Utah area businesses/institutions.

.... apparently, the airlines (ya know, those that actually make the call?) think otherwise  

Anthsaun
Western's JNU-FAI service was out of SEA... actually the flight went LAX-SEA-JNU-FAI

Lono:

Thanks!!! That's right, I just forgot what it was like.


DL flying across the Atlantic or the Pacific would be great. I believe the market and the whole business is there, but... For DL to do so and achieving excellent profitable results, some other trasnoceanic routes would have to cease in order to give preference to SLC.

What I would like to see over SLC is a DL B777 before they are gone.

I believe the market and the whole business is there

Why do you believe that?

DL to do so and achieving excellent profitable results, some other trasnoceanic routes would have to cease in order to give preference to SLC.


You want them to axe existing service to give Salt Lake City, Utah a transoceanic route?

Why?

N

Many Mormons all over the World. For a city the size of SLC, it does a huge amount of International business. I would think a SLC-CDG flight could work with all the 1 stop connections from CDG to Africa and the Middle East.

"Many Mormons all over the World. For a city the size of SLC, it does a huge amount of International business. I would think a SLC-CDG flight could work with all the 1 stop connections from CDG to Africa and the Middle East."

The route would be at least 85% connecting if DL were to open the route. However, I don't think DL has built the SLC hub to be large enough to support a Trans-Atlantic flight to CDG. Maybe one day they will, however. It makes little sense though since passengers can go from almost any city in the West and connect to ATL, and most can connect to CVG, so opening SLC-CDG would only make since if the the O&D warranted it, which it doesn't.

Jeremy

Out of curiosity, would AF try a SLC-CDG flight that would codeshare with DL?

DeltaRules

sure, right after the CDG-LoompaLand service was established  

Any upgrades to OMA and/or BOI service? OMA gets a few CRJs a day from SLC, and BOI gets 1 daily mainline and continuous CRJ service (almost hourly it seems like).

DL actually kept the LAX-SEA-JNU-FAI route until the first year David Letterman was on CBS, 1993. They would make it seasonal and only do it in the summer. I actually flew on the 722 to see my uncle in JNU and stayed in JNU for an extra day because DL missed 2 approaches in the JNU clouds and decided to go on to SEA. It was a nice service because you could stay on the airplane, instead of having tochange at SEA. The next day, they missed once, but an AS 737 broke a hole when they landed and DL followed. Was the most uncomfortable plane, don't know why, and the pilot wrongly said that Mt. Ranier (of which we had a spectacular view out of SEA) was the tallest mountain in the lower 48 (it is Mt. Whitney in CA). Still, it was my last 727 ride so yeah.

No upgrades for OMA. In fact they will loose all mainline delta and become a DCI city only.

sure, right after the CDG-LoompaLand service was established

haha

I don't know why so many people feel like it would be in DL's best interest to link SLC to Europe. There will never ever be enough O&D traffic to suffice the equipment. And the cities of SGU, COD, IDA, JAC, BZN, CDC, EKO, WYS, GEG, PSC, etc. sure aren't going to pick up the void so why try something you know will fail. It would be a waste of aircraft resources. Just because DL has a hub in SLC doesn't mean they have to connect to every other major hub in the Skyteam network.

The atlatic service may not be feasible for SLC.... but based on the demographics, I would think that Pacific service would be feasible. Those on the west coast wont backtrack to ATL, but they could backtrack to SLC. Perhaps a 2nd NRT, an HKG or the new china service could go from SLC. SLC can capture the whole contry with connecting traffic for the Pacific, wheras ATL can really only capture the eastern 1/2.

I would think that Pacific service would be feasible

The only way this happens is if DL does not an aircraft that can get to the desired destination nonstop from ATL and it would basically be a technical stop. You won't have enough passengers from the mountain destinations (maybe 20 a week) and DL won't be able to pull people from LAX, SFO, SEA, SAN, or PDX going to Asia. So again why try. Just continue to use your partner KE and see what you can do from the east coast when the time comes.

KE and see what you can do from the east coast when the time comes.

The problem with that is that you have to double connect to KE if you live anywhere West of CVG, and want to fly on DL.

That's a lot of cities- DEN, ABQ, DFW, MCI, STL, BOI, OMA, plus all the secondary markets.

Atlantic routes are less of a problem - all Western business centers are also served via ATL, JFK, or CVG, and provide Atlantic coverage with a single connection.

SLC with a single ICN link would certainly improve DL's western status. Unfortunately, I'm all too aware that SLC just doesn't have the economics.

N

This is just my opinion here, but I can't imagine there being enough daily or even weekly market share on DL to justify a flight from SLC to Asia. It would be a tremendous benefit to the folks out west, but bottom line is the consumer base just isn't there to allow to be profitable. It would be more than half empty everyday and a few times a week wouldn't offer many benefits.

Does KE still plan to operate the ICN-DFW flight?

It is my understanding that we are going to originate "thru" plane service on some International routes that go through either CVG, JFK or ATL.
The example that was shown to us was SLC-ATL-CDG & SLC-JFK-SVO, SLC-ATL-AMS
whereby the flight would be same equipment all the way thru, and
carry the same flight number. They said that they feel this would generate more West Coast Traffic from Medium Sized Spoke cities, thus bypassing
LAX SFO SEA backtracking from originating points such as FAT, RNO, BOI, GEG, MSO, FCA, BIL etc. We were also told that this could develop market share in these markets that could eventually lead to some N/S service out of SLC if the spokes generated enough demand. I guess they are looking at all options to make each hub generate the maximum amount of traffic & revenue.

What DL will do at SLC is move ASA assets from DFW and reduce Skywest flights.

Why does DEN work as a hub and SLC doesn't? Two reasons: DEN is 380 miles east of SLC and is closer to many more midwestern cities, but the biggest reason is simply that Colorado, and particulary, the corridor from Cheyenne to Pueblo is much more populated that from Logan to Provo in Utah. The vast majority of population in both states live in these corridors. Colorado's population is 4.55 Million while Utah's is only 2.35 Million, so Colorado has almost twice as many people as Utah, and Denver has been the major hub city of the Mountain West for 50 years or more. In 1978, three airlines had major hubs at DEN: UA, CO and FL. WA pulled back at Denver where they used to serve LAX, SAN, PHX, SLC, MSP, RAP, FSD, MSP, and Calgary, CPR, LGW, and Montana cities, and concentrated their hub in SLC in the late 70's. Prior to that UA was the largest carrier out of SLC. Before deregulation, Western didn't serve any city east of the Mississippi, and the only cities they served East of Denver were RAP, Pierre, FSD, and MSP.

Did DL establish SLC as a hub on its own, or did it obtain SLC when I purchased Western Airlines in the 80's?

As I understand it, the SLC hub was acquired when Delta bought out Western. That was a good airline, the one memory I have of Western is when we flew from SLC to LAX then HNL on one of their DC-10's a year before the buy out.

Bubbinski