ERJ145LR
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:55 pm

Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:43 am

Why is it that there are NO airlines in the US with the exception of aa and its a300's, that use larger airbuses, such as a340.?
 
US653
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:36 am

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:50 am

Well, US and NW both use the A330, so there are other US airlines that use the larger airbuses.

Jeff
US653...PHL-AUA...The best place in the Caribbean!!!
 
ERJ145LR
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:55 pm

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:51 am

like who? Any with the a340?
 
US653
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:36 am

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:01 pm

No A340s, just A330s.

Jeff
US653...PHL-AUA...The best place in the Caribbean!!!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:03 pm

Well, and A300s. They're not tiny.

N
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2567
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:13 pm

Because there is no need and for each requirement the 777 was selected over the A340 such as at AA, CO, DL, & UA.
The only US airline that can have a A340 fit in its fleet would be NW, or US if it survives and that is a big IF particularly for the latter.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:19 am

Both CO and NW once ordered the A340, and both later dropped it like a bad habit.

All of the currently-existing USA airlines, with the exception of United, have operated widebody Airbuses in their time
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
toltommy
Posts: 2519
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:37 am

I can understand why US carriers dropping the original 340 orders. But I can see where the new long range 340's might be attractive, especially to NW. NRT will get saturated again, and the 345 could be used to fly nonstop from US to Asia, and add capacity.
 
trevd
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:51 pm

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:37 am

And there was also an issue with the center fuel tank of the A340 not being certified by the FAA. Anyone know if that ever got resolved??
 
col
Posts: 1695
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:11 am

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:41 am

Don't forget Fed Ex and UPS with their 306F/310F. Also, the Freight conversion 300B operating in USA.
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5042
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:48 am

TOLTommy- The A345 for NW would be VERY VERY UNLIKELY after what is going on within NW  Big grin
 
LUV4JFK
Posts: 443
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:46 am

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:20 am

Of the six major US carriers, only United never had a widebody airbus. Even Pan Am I & Pan Am II, Eastern, & Carnival had A300's in their fleet.

LUV4JFK
 Big thumbs up
John F. Kennedy International Airport: Where America Greets The World.
 
Falcon Flyer
Posts: 1123
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2000 12:10 pm

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:09 am

Other A300 operators have included Northeastern & Presidential.
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
 
iowa744fan
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:31 pm

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:25 am

Don't forget that CO operated A300s for a while too. Took some from Eastern and then ordered some new. Gordon removed them from the fleet in 1997(?) I think.

TolTommy,

I doubt that NW will proceed with that path. Over the past 10 years, it seems that they have been bringing all their Asia flights back in through Tokyo and a couple to Osaka. They used to operate a few flights that bypassed Tokyo (LAX-NRT, LAX-SEL, SEA-HKG, MSP-HKG, DTW-PEK, DTW-PVG, DTW-SEL), but have since cancelled all of them and have scheduled everything through Tokyo. Did they ever fly the nonstop from DTW to Shanghai into Pudong? Or did they discontinue that while it was still at Hongqiao (is this right?)?

TWA had something going with the A330 as well. Did they actually sign a firm order? Or just a letter or intent?
 
SwissA330
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:23 am

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:49 am

Delta had 310's...
And Your northerly neighbour has some...
swissair/+/ we care
 
brons2
Posts: 2462
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:02 pm

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:30 am

NW indeed has the A333, I flew on one yesterday FRA-DTW.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:22 am

Northwest still bypasses NRT with 747-400s on DTW-KIX and DTW-NGO, both are fully loaded planes daily.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:30 am

For crying out loud, WN is the 3rd or 4th largest airline in the world (and number one in market capital), and you people still don't call it a major!! That is my pet peeve.
As it goes, I think NW has shown a pretty clear commitment to the hub and spoke system and, with the exception of can't pass up asian flights like LAX-NRT, SFO-NRT, PDX-NRT (They got a subsidy for that one), and JFK-NRT, they seem to like to keep it simple. They fill up 744s and are actually doing ok financially (they will not be going bankrupt any time soon). Besides, perhaps it is harder to have F/As keep PAX hostage on an A340 than other planes =). TW did in fact have an A330 order signed when they went under, but they never flew them.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
ual747den
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:29 pm

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:53 am

American Airlines ordered the A340 when it first hit the market. When they started negotiations with NW for ORD routes they transferred the order to them. Those orders were then converted into A330 orders.
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:28 pm

I can understand why US carriers dropping the original 340 orders.

Despite ConcordeBoy's intentionally misleading connotation, CO and NW both dropped their original 340 orders because of financial turmoil, no other reason, and certainly not the one you were thinking.

American Airlines ordered the A340 when it first hit the market.

I don't think that's true. Can you provide some links that talk about that?

And there was also an issue with the center fuel tank of the A340 not being certified by the FAA. Anyone know if that ever got resolved??

It was never actually a problem. They solved it long before the certification became necessary, via a kevlar lining.

N
 
ual747den
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:29 pm

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:25 pm

Gigneil,
I will look for something on the net, but I dont know what I will come up with. This information is common knowledge, when AA expanded in the early 90's (I believe that 90's is correct) they had all the aircraft manufactures building for them. No other airline could get planes because AA had them all locked up with orders.

EDIT: This fact can be found in the book, "The American Eagle, The Story Of Bob Crandle"

[Edited 2004-09-11 07:42:41]
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5042
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:30 pm

For crying out loud, WN is the 3rd or 4th largest airline in the world (and number one in market capital), and you people still don't call it a major!! That is my pet peeve.

Not even close here are the top 6 alone
1- American Airlines
2- United Airlines
3- Delta Airlines
4- Air France/KLM
5- Northwest Airlines
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:49 pm

According to the Air Transport Association of America, in 2002 Southwest was third in the US, behind AA and DL.
By number of PAX
AA 94,048,000
DL 90,799,000
WN 72,448,000
UA 68,350,000
NW 51,743,000

Now, perhaps UA passed WN (though I doubt it), but NW with more than 20 million fewer probably has not passed WN.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
ual747den
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:29 pm

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:53 pm

I find it extremely hard to believe that WN can fly more pax than UA when UA has more than triple the fleet and a worldwide network
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5042
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:10 pm

Dont forget, that if a passenger has 7 layovers, they count it as 7 seperate passengers.

By the way then what do you call this  Big grin
Northwest Airlines is the world's fifth largest airline with hubs at Detroit, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Memphis, Tokyo and Amsterdam, and approximately 1,500 daily departures. Northwest and its travel partners serve nearly 750 cities in almost 120 countries on six continents. In 2003, consumers from throughout the world recognized Northwest's efforts to make travel easier. Northwest's WorldPerks program was named the most popular North American frequent flyer program by readers of TIME Asia in the 2003 TIME Readers' Travel Choice Awards. A 2003 J.D. Power and Associates study of airports ranked Minneapolis/St. Paul and Detroit, home to Northwest's two largest hubs, in second and fourth place among large domestic airports in overall customer satisfaction.

By the way its not measured in how many passengers they carried, its measured by ASM's
 
iowa744fan
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:31 pm

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:15 pm

UAL747DEN,

In terms of passengers, it is not hard to believe. UA can operate one 744 from ORD to HKG and carry about 370 passengers and take up 15-16 hours...not including ground time at each airport which will about make it 24 hours. A single WN 733 may operate about 6-7 flights a day with over 100 passengers per flight, thus outpacing the single 744.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:30 pm

Um, there is no way UA has more than triple WN's fleet. That would mean they had more than the around 800 AA has. According to UA's certificate, and they actually have fewer planes in service than this, they have a fleet of 484. Southwest has 413 on theirs, and those are all flying. So UA has negligibly more aircraft, though many hold more pax than the WN planes. Again though, like Iowa744fan (a fan of a great plane) said, they get a lot more use out of their aircraft
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
ual747den
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:29 pm

RE: Us Airlines And Large Airbuses

Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:43 pm

I guess im wrong! I didn't know that WN had more than 400 aircraft, that is crazy! When thinking about the UA network I was including the UAX flights too though so im not that far off!
/// UNITED AIRLINES

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