N670UW
Topic Author
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US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:30 pm

There's been a post on an HP Yahoo! Message Board (linked below) that apparently the New York Times will report in tomorrow's edition that US Airways will file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on Sunday.

More to come, I guess...

http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=7080664&tid=awa&sid=7080664&mid=76062



N670UW
 
A340Spotter
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:38 pm

N670UW,

It's also being reported on the Drudge site apparently, with a possible shutdown being discussed (word of mouth from someone here in the office tonight, I don't read that website)...

JSD
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
S12PPL
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:39 pm

Aren't they still in Chapter 11? Or did they scratch and claw they're way out of that all ready? Some how I don't believe this will be a chapter 11 filing...as creditors are probably growing very weary of not getting they're money back. This will probably be chapter 7, not chapter 11. This is the beginning of the end for US. Sorry to all those employees on this board he denied this will happen, but I'd start looking in the paper, or at the un-employment office for something else. Good luck guys.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
N670UW
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:43 pm

Aren't they still in Chapter 11?

No. They haven't been in over a year: they emerged March 31, 2003.

---

It's also being reported on the Drudge site apparently

I saw that also (though I don't frequent Drudge's website):

"US AIRWAYS appears all but certain to file for bankruptcy protection Sunday... Developing... "
http://www.drudgereport.com/


N670UW
 
smcmac32msn
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:44 pm

If a Chapter 7 filing is in the works for US, I pass my thoughts onto those employees that will soon be in the Un-Employment office. I feel for them because I did contract baggage handling for US Express for over a year and know what those people are going through as our citys US station shut down.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
burnsie28
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:49 pm

Word inside the industry, if they file Chapter 11, its over, if thats the case, my condolences to US Airways Employee's, I wish you the best  Sad
 
N670UW
Topic Author
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:53 pm

A Chapter 11 filing would be a violation of the ATSB loan guarantee terms. However, according to that message board post (not that I'm certain it's fact or anything), the ATSB would be willing to let US operate in Chap. 11 if the bankruptcy goes well. I guess Sunday will tell all...

N670VJ
 
A330323X
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:05 pm

Sunday is what I'm hearing too, assuming the RC4 don't come to their senses (during the emergency MEC meeting tomorrow).

The ATSB shouldn't be a problem.

[Edited 2004-09-10 06:12:29]
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
tekelberry
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:15 pm

NY Times Article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/10/business/10airways.html?ei=5006&en=2c9ee10fb94f099c&ex=1095393600&partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position=

Hopefully they can work something out with their unions to prevent Ch. 11.

[Edited 2004-09-10 06:17:18]
 
ATLhomeCMH
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:21 pm

If they do file again, which it looks like they will, you can kiss them goodbye  Sad
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
cha747
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:25 pm

Should be interesting...I'm flying back from CLT-PHL on Sunday. I'm scheduled to fly them on Oct. 16 PHL- SFO as well. If I understand the article correctly though, there's still some hope. Best wishes to USAirways.
You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
 
CMHSRQ
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:31 pm

This is bad for USAirways but good for the industry. Something has to happen, there is just to much capacity right now.
The voice of moderation
 
wgw2707
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:43 pm

This is bad for USAirways but good for the industry. Something has to happen, there is just to much capacity right now.

Once again someone is viewing things from the wrong perspective. There is perhaps too much capacity in the industry right now, overall, but not in all markets. In general, the collapse of US Airways would only have a positive effect in markets where US Airways competes with other airlines. Thus, not factoring in connecting traffic, the biggest gains in the collapse of US Airways would be made by airlines that operate from LGA, DCA and BOS. A substantial chunk of PHL and CLT has no non-stop competition, and US will still be the largest player at PIT even with the downgrading of PIT to a focus city.

When you consider connecting traffic the gains of a US Airways collapse do become more widespread. Then again O&D traffic apparently is more profitable individually speaking than connecting traffic. In general though, I don't think anyone will benefit that much from US Airways failing, considering the general dominance of US Airways at their two largest markets, PHL and CLT.

Also bear in mind that if US Airways does go out of business, the consumer stands to loose big time, as fares on a substantial number of markets where US Airways is currently a competitor would in all probability be increased, to adjust for the reduced supply.

-WGW2707
 
spacecadet
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:54 pm

Also bear in mind that if US Airways does go out of business, the consumer stands to loose big time, as fares on a substantial number of markets where US Airways is currently a competitor would in all probability be increased, to adjust for the reduced supply.

You're not looking at the big picture. The big picture is there are too many airlines in the US, too much capacity, and too much competition, which results in fares that are too low to be self-sustaining for anybody. The consumer doesn't win anything if everybody goes out of business because the fares are too low; eventually, the fares have to straighten themselves out one way or another. Right now we're in the cycle of business whereby everybody knows a couple of airlines are going to be out and they're all just playing hot potato, trying to ride it out and make sure it happens to the other guy. But it's inevitable, and it has to happen. If it doesn't happen, the only other solution is re-regulation. (Which would mean even higher fares.) You cannot have a business where there is more supply than there is demand.

Free market economies exist based on the theory of natural selection. Well, this is natural selection at work. Everybody loves capitalism when everybody's making money but this is the inevitable ugly side of it. Nobody's guaranteed a job, and no company is guaranteed by the government to stay in business (well, unless you're a member of the RIAA, but that's a post for another forum). If the laws of supply and demand catch up with you before they catch up with your competitors, you're out.

I don't know what's going to happen this Sunday and I don't know if another bankruptcy would be the end of US Air. But the end will come for someone, sometime fairly soon, and that will be the beginning of this industry nursing its way back to health.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
aa777flyer
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:00 am

Spacecadet-
Well said. Could not have stated it better myself. WG2707 is only 16-20, but needs a class in airline economics!
The TSA was created to make the post office look efficient!
 
UAL Bagsmasher
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:21 am

I know that lousy feeling of uncertainty; not knowing if you are going to have a job tomarrow. Best of luck to everyone at U. Hopefully things will work out for all of you.
 
cbphoto
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:36 am

My thoughts are with all of the US Airways employees. I had the wonderful opportunity to fly US Airways this past August from MSP-PIT-ROA-CLT-MSP, and every flight I flew on was a great one. No problems what so ever, and the crew were all really nice. Good Luck to everyone!
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
AZjetgeek
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:23 am

I also offer my hopes and prayers for the employees of USAirways. While Spacecadet makes valid points concerning the excess capacity within the industry, there are NO winners when an airline goes into Chapt. 11. The fact that Chapt. 7 is even being discussed is an indication that US could be history in the near future.

It's not just the US employees who will suffer. Those who will be caught up in the wake of a Chapt. 7 include creditors, vendors, airport employees, etc. Given US' financial situation, it would appear quite unlikely that any other American carrier would be capable of stepping up and either merging or buying out US. Whether or not there is a foreign carrier willing to step up and "rescue" US is a topic that I have yet to see discussed in this forum.

In the event US were to go into Chapt. 7, there will be others to take its place. Either existing airlines will take over their routes, or an upstart will take its chances in the market. Success in the industry depends partially on the availability of opportunities. DL, which is closing its DFW hub as part of its restructuring, could step in at CLT, using it as a focus city, or designate it as a hub for Song. Another possible player in that market could be WN, which could further expand its business in the Southeastern U.S.

Still, I believe that US would be missed, if solely on sentiment.


Long live the RJ!
 
jc2354
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:32 am

Is there an advantage to filing on a Sunday, as opposed to any other day of the week?
If not now, then when?
 
flybyguy
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:36 am

... Thank you Union leaders once again for putting thousands out of work... Union leaders industry-wide should be lynched for their rampant idiocy.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
LFutia
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:20 am

from a Aviation digest, i get on email... US will be filing on Sunday for Ch.11 ...

i wish all US employees the best ...
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
DLKAPA
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:37 am

All I can say is that even though this was probably going to happen,

My best goes to all the USAirways employees. Hopefully another airline will be gracious enough to welcome them aboard, but judging the way things are going now, its gonna be rough.

So for all you guys who won't be seeing very many of these, I give you this:  Smile

Good luck,
DLKAPA
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
whitehatter
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:54 am

Any chance that the patient can die before everyone here arranges the funeral?

USAirways appointed a new VP for restructuring only 7 days ago. I find it hard to believe someone would walk from a secure FAA post into a company with only days to go. Chapter 11 would not necessarily mean liquidation at this stage as their August results didn't look too bad at all. This could just be another trip to BK (or the threat of it) as leverage to close down some open issues which are dragging along.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
BH
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:19 am

Flybyguy
... Thank you Union leaders once again for putting thousands out of work... Union leaders industry-wide should be lynched for their rampant idiocy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not that i am taking a side but think about it. If SomeOne said give me five dollars now and they will give you back 8 in 2 days and they dont evin give it to you but ask for even more would you do it.

Yes its bad that these people will loose their jobs but this is a repeat for US employees its not the first time. Its time for them to consider their future....Is this companys chances of survival good enough that they should give them more or is it for the worst.

What would you say if all these Union People voted to give up more money and the company still fails.. Now you Not only have people without jobs these people will be in even a worse finacial postion than if they didnt give up more.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:24 am

I have to agree that if US goes under, it will be detrimental. US serves a LOT of airports that do not have other scheduled carriers. Many of these cities may be picked up by other airliens, but the likely East Coast airline would be Delta, which is also in trouble and not in the position to expand. I beleive that US needs to remain a viable carrier. It may need to degrade some in order to build itself up, but it needs to remain. Many small airports rely on US.
Aiming High and going far..
 
AA717driver
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:29 am

The advantage to filing on Sunday is that all the creditors will be in the Hamptons or at their box seats at Flushing Meadows...

Flybyguy--Save the "those evil unions tanked another airline" B.S.! Wolf/Gang and Schofeld go straight to the top of the list.TC
FL450, M.85
 
Okie
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:01 am

With the Retirment Systems of Alabama holding a majority of the boards seats and a large portion of the debt load they just might file chaper 7.

All labor problems will be mute, take their share of the assets and start their own airline RSA, and sell off the rest.

Okie
 
i15846375
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:23 am

I am reading all this about asking the unions for some compensation, what has upper management and the CEO offered in return, what kind of compensations are they willing to give? It's almost like out Senate and Congress asking the citizens to give up something, but have they ever cut back on their salaries? It all comes down to those that make the company work and run pay the price for those that take the most out of the company.
 
N79969
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:51 am

The meaningful loss will be for employees and not consumers. In markets where USAirways operates, other airlines will meet demand in the long run. Fares will go up in some places but an increase in fares is necessary to restore the financial health of the US airline industry.

This is a real stressful time for the people of USAirways and I also wish all of them luck.

According to the NYTimes article USAirways will resort to cash on hand when they file, how long will that last them?

I also wonder what Mr. Freshwater has planned for himself after this process reaches its seemingly inevitable conclusion.
 
ClipperAurora
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:01 pm

I'd like to thank the Union members for being SO brilliant, your stupidity and cocky attitudes is costing you your job and 20,000 others. you would think that you might want to make a little less money and keep your job, seniority, as well as quality of life when it comes to seniority, and the pure enjoyment of flying, BUT NOOOOOOOOOO let's make no money, have no job, try to find a job out their with a sugar load of airlines still laying people off AND START ON THE BOTTOM OF THE SENIORITY LIST, GOOD ONE REAL SMART, why don't you go from flying a A330 or a 757 with 20 days off in a month to flying AN ERJ for continental express making just barely 19,000 and havin to bust your ass. Why don't you alll sit back and use your freakin brains here, TIMES HAVE CHANGED DID YA SEE 9/11 , LOW COST CARRIERS KILLING YOU, nobody is ever going to make 250000 a year anymore get with it, or go fly a C172 and cry the rest of your life,

whatever happened to the pure enjoyment and excitment and romance of the airline industry.???????????
//////// FLY THE FLAG
 
cancidas
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:10 pm

some of you really need to learn to read. it says "apparently," meaning nothing is for certain. ever think that the media isn't right?
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
CALMSP
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:37 pm

any US employees or anyone else know the age for their fleet of 762's & 757's? Anticipating possible liquidation, would these be up on the block?
 
N670UW
Topic Author
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:46 pm

any US employees or anyone else know the age for their fleet of 762's & 757's?

10 of the 31 757's are ex-Eastern (the 757-225's) and were delivered to Eastern in 1983. The other 21 757's are original USAir model and were delivered between 1993 and 1995.

5 of the 10 767's are ex-Piedmont (767-201ER) and were delivered to Piedmont in 1987 and 1988. The 5 767-2B7ER aircraft were delivered to USAir between 1990 and 1993.

Generally the non-original USAir airplanes are much older (minus the 737's of course).


N670UW
 
N79969
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:47 pm

Aa717Driver has a point. A lot of what is occurring now is the fault of past leadership. No question. But that is the past and has no bearing on the decisions that need to be made now.

Doesn't USAirways airplanes on order from Airbus and Bombardier (via GECAS)?
 
smcmac32msn
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:27 pm

USAirways appointed a new VP for restructuring only 7 days ago. I find it hard to believe someone would walk from a secure FAA post into a company with only days to go.

Hmmm.... interesting. Could it be that this "new" VP from the FAA could be coming in to help clear up any legal/government mess before Sunday's filing?? Seems odd to me to pick a guy from the FAA, especially when your about to file bankrupcy for the 2nd time in 2 years.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
gigneil
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:32 pm

Doesn't USAirways airplanes on order from Airbus and Bombardier (via GECAS)?

A fair number of each. They did consolidate many outstanding orders into the 10 upcoming 332s.

I am unaware of which Bombardier orders did survive.

N
 
gkpetery
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:55 pm

I'm wondering which airlines would be able to take over US Airways routes if they go completely under? United, it's Star Alliance partner, and former merger suitor may not be ready... but it seem like it would be able to get revenue out of some of USAirway's routes. Southwest... who may be have help inititate the filing with moving into Philly?

Seems like any airline with better operations and the capacity to do it... should. But which one?
 
greatansett
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:01 pm

I thought that when an airline emerges from chapter 11 they need to prove that they are financially sound for the immediate present and future?
Ron Paul 2012
 
ual747den
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:35 pm

I don't feel sorry for the employees of US at all. They made this decision, if they would have just voted to give back they would not have to start looking for another job. Unions are a big joke and will drive a company into the ground as we see so often. The employees should know how bad the airline is doing and if they don't want to give back anything I say they just fire the union and the money that would have went to dues can now go to the airline. The airline would get more than they asked for and everyone would be happy. Now the employees that didn't want to give up anything to keep their job will have no job at all and no other airline will hire them because they will call up their own people first. If by some off chance an airline does hire them they will start off at minimum wage and at the bottom of the pole. Now for all of you people crying about how this is so bad because a lot of cities will lose their only carrier, if that is true and no other airline wants the routes, they must not be profitable routes. Why wouldn't another airline want to step in and take over a profitable route? THEY WOULD! But like you said many routes will be left with no service and those very routes are the same reason that US will be out of business, This is not a charity service. No airline should be flying a route that doesn't make money only because its the only way for people to get out. If the people don't want to pay enough money to make it profitable than they can walk for all I care. The US employees did this to themselves, they didn't want to give back and now lets see how far they go with nothing! Im sure they will wish they would have taken that pay cut when their house is foreclosed.

Bye Bye US employees, you got what you asked for!!
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
scxmechanic
Posts: 479
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:17 pm

What people forget is that the employees of USAirways have given back twice and what did management do with those give backs? They blew it!

The IAM and I believe other unions showed the company where they could save loads more cash and they didn't want to hear about it.

The company has demanded all these give backs but have yet to say what they are doing in the way of concessions. How is this equal sacrifices for all?

The pilots talks with the company of late has done nothing but show that all management is looking for is to bust unions. Everytime ALPA met the goals of the requirements of the company, what did management do? They moved the goal posts! They wanted more everytime the pilots got closer to what was asked of them.

So basically some of you who are saying the employees should just bend over and take it in the rear again, are clueless.

If you really wanna follow what's going on at US go to www.usaviation.com and go into the Airline forums and read it rather than spew off at the mouth about things you know little about.

 
dutchjet
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:01 pm

A couple of points......note that another bankruptcy filing for US will create huge financial problems for the airline, it will be very difficult, if not impossible, for US to emerge from bankruptcy after another filing since financing and investors are going to be very hard, if not impossible, to find. IF US files this weekend, or next week, they will file an 11 proceeding, hoping to reorganize, but the creditors and/ór the court may want to convert the petition to a Chapter 7 liquidation in order to recover and protect some of the monies that have been loaned to US and to protect whatever assets of US remain. One thing is for sure, this will be a very interesting and complicated legal proceeding.....this is far more than US trying to clean up its debt and re-structure as is typical of a Chapter 11....this proceeding may result in the liquidation of US or, if US can emerge, it will be a very different (and most likely a much smaller) airline that it is now. Lots of jobs will be lost, in any case.

Who is to blame for US's troubles - just about everyone, past and present management, unions, employees, LCCs, the American and the world economy, fuel prices, etc, etc. One group cannot be blamed....but it does seem that US has made many bad choices in the past years, starting with the ill-fated PSA takeover and ending with investing in far too many shiny new airplanes. Were all of those brand new A32X aircraft really necessary? For years, US benefited from operating primarily in the northeast, where high airfares ruled.....those days are over, and US seems unable to respond. Consumers are confused and unsure, first US closed hubs in BWI, DAY and other cities, dropped all prior PSA routes, and slowly eliminated point to point flying to concentrate on the PIT, PHL and CLT hubs, now PIT is going and point to point flying is to come back, US seems to think that the Caribbean is the answer to its problems, and now US plans a focus city at FLL to fly to Latin America and will take on AA in its home turf.......all of this while Southwest is challenging US at PHL. But lets not blame one group, US is simply living in the past.

One of the reasons that US may have to re-enter bankruptcy is that US, for various reasons, exited its previous bankruptcy far too quickly.....based on a faulty business plan, US did not really achieve the savings that they needed to make money again. I hate to say it, but now US is going to pay the price for its mistakes.

What will happen to US - I see the Shuttle being sold to American, much of US's operations and assets at BOS, LGA and DCA going to other carriers, and US being a far smaller airline operating out of 2 hubs (PHL and CLT, forget PIT and I think the FLL thing will be dropped if US goes into bankrupcty) with many Airbus aircraft being let go in favor of keeping the far cheaper older Boeings, and regional jets are not the answer either. And, that is my prediction if things go well, otherwise, we may see new tenant moving into US's gates at CLT, PHL and PIT.
 
NWAFA
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:15 pm

Flybyguy,

Your comment about Unions is total WRONG and BS!

My heart goes out to each and every employee of US and their family memebers. You have been through so much the last few years.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
bucky707
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RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:38 pm

"Sunday is what I'm hearing too, assuming the RC4 don't come to their senses (during the emergency MEC meeting tomorrow)."


I think the RC4 have come to their senses, thats why they are saying no. At what point do you make a stand? How little will you work for? You know if the U employees accept this round of cuts, they will be back for more. Bank on it.
 
frugalqxnwa
Posts: 550
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 3:18 am

RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:14 pm

Flybyguy,

I am by no means a fan of labor unions, but please check recent history before going off unilaterally about all unions. AA unions were smart when AA was on the eve of a CH11 filing shortly after 9/11, it was the execs with their pocketing more money for themselves that endangered that union deal. Also, US does not have problems just with its unions, from what I see, read, and hear on this forum and from other sources (i.e. AW&ST, USA Today), US has problems accross the board. They are dealing with high fuel prices like all the other airlines, and they have not had the best management over the last few years. CH11 is not a place any business wants to be, and the employees and many unions know how detrimental bankruptcy is for a company.

All: Best wishes for all US employees and the company itself. It would be a sad day if US were to shut down.
 
planemaker
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:19 pm

"Doesn't USAirways airplanes on order from... Bombardier (via GECAS)?"

"I am unaware of which Bombardier orders did survive."


The agreement with US Airways on a revised delivery schedule called for 23 CRJ200 to be converted to CRJ700 or CRJ900. The revised total firm order is a model mix of 37 CRJ200 and 48 CRJ700/900. In addition, the schedule for delivery of the remaining aircraft has been extended from April 2005 to March 2006.

Another thread could be started just on the industry wide fall out of another US Airways Chap. 11 filing -- starting with BBD.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
NKP S2
Posts: 1665
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 3:16 am

RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:27 pm

Thanks for your support 'scxmechanic'. Reading the vitriol reminds me of the phrase of someone "who knows just enough to be dangerous"...or the adage "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Soundbites without context.

Regarding your reference to usaviation.com: Would be fun to watch opininated know-it-alls ( most of them kids ) have to answer their comments point for point, without the benefit of some bogus "halo-effect" of popularity on a.net. to bail them out. They wouldn't last 5 minutes in a debate.
 
b727
Posts: 464
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 3:19 am

RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:37 pm

UsAirways is the main carrier out of SYR, they have been raking us over the coals for the past decade. With the help of TMA and jetBlue prices have gotten much better. So I dont want to hear that if USAir shutsdown that prices will sky rocket. They have been their own worst emeny. The also destroyed two great airlines, PSA and Peidmont. I feel bad for the emloyees but managment has ruined the airline.


B727
Glenn
 
dadoftyler
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 4:16 am

RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:15 am

Oh, My God. I actually agree with a post by NWAFA!!!!

You can't logically put this at the unions' feet. I agree that there has to be a minimum of what you'll work for--although my definition of that may be different than others on this board. This is a failure of managment, longstanding and over numerous regimes. Labor costs are not the only costs you can, and should, cut. Many things should have been done, or should have been done better.

If this happens...and I'm hearing the same thing everyone else here is....God speed to the families and fliers impacted. But let's all be clear who to place the blame on--irrespective of who caved or who didn't. This company has been mismanaged right into the ground.

dot
 
slider
Posts: 6820
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:48 am

Dutchjet- great post, very well reasoned all the way around. It's that kind of analysis that makes sense, not this "it's the unions fault" or "it's management's fault" histrionics that some are carrying on with.

ScX- USAviation is a pay site in order to even view the forums, FYI.

There are some good points made herein. The key thing is that at present time, not to mention years from now, does pointing fingers do any good?

Does it? Does playing the blame game help the imminent situation?

No. So any reasonable honest person will realize that BOTH the unions, their leadership and the management of the company, have dicked US Air up SOOOOOO bad that it was structurally, fundamentally on the path for disaster before 9/11. The financial realities since have worsened that outlook, as well as the mismanagement by senior leadership.

Now, as Dutchjet pointed out, it's more likely that creditors will push for Ch 7 liquidation as opposed to restructuring. the current environment does not lend itself to allowing revolving trips through the bankruptcy courts as several carriers did in the past.

It's a shame, but that's life. Best of luck to the employees of US.
 
freshlove1
Posts: 1245
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:38 pm

RE: US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday

Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:50 am

LOW COST CARRIERS KILLING YOU, nobody is ever going to make 250000 a year anymore .


True to a point but if the majors fail, like US, DL or possibly UA might then the low cost carriers no longer stay low cost, they will raise their prices. Don't think that just because WN offers a $79 fare from PHL-MCO, a route that they compete with US on, if US were to go under that the fares would stay low. Those fares would be raised up in a second because they now controll the route and if you want to go you will pay. It is proven that this happens as I see it every day when I am doing ticketing at my station for passengers. If there is more then 1 carrier on a route the prices are lower most of the time then if there was just 1 carrier flying the route. LCC's will only be LCC's until they drive the majors out of business then they will become the 2nd comming of the high priced majors that everyone is complaining about now.

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