dutchjet
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Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:58 am

Does Airbus plan any future development of the A340-300 airliner?

Airbus has successfully introduced the ultra long range A345 and higher capacity A346 in recent years and the newer members of the A340 family are attracting orders and interest from airlines. Also, the very successful A332 and improved A333 now cover much of the market that was originally allocated to the A342 and A343. What is the future of the A343 - will this type be dropped by Airbus? Are there still orders outstanding for the type?
 
EddieDude
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:10 am

Hi Dutchjet, I think you have a very valid point. All I can say in connection with the future of the A343 is that earlier this year SA received the upgraded A340-300e which is a more efficient version of the original -300. I don't know if more airlines have placed orders for this improved type.

On a related matter, rumors that MX is looking at the four-engined Airbus for flights to China are running wild in the forum. Would that be the A343e, the A345 or the A346?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:16 am

The A343X/E, while horrifically losing the battle for market to the 772ER... still has something of a place in Airbus' lineup (unlike the A342)-- most of its remaining future orders will likely be add-ons, rather than new customers however.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:21 am

As EddieDude says, the Classic 340 has already been updated (twice IIRC, X and E). The 342 and 343 are still in their own niche, and will at least be offered for a while to come. If nothing else, when operators with fleets of these aircraft wish to "fill up" they will not buy just one or two 345/346, since if the engines are different.

According to http://www.airbus.com/doc/media/ordersndeliveries/orders_n_deliveries.xls, there are 9 342/343 on order.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Hirnie
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:23 am

I don`t think that the A343 will be dropped in the near future. For the time the marked in this segment seems somehow to be satisfied. The A333 has the capacity but not the range and the A332 has the range but not the capacity to replace the A343. The A345 and 346 serve another marked and I think the A345 will follow the A342 and stay in a niche.
A competitive A343 replacement could be a new design based on a family based on a competitor to the B787(7E7). If Airbus would come up with such a new design they could replace the 332,333 and 343 with one family. But at this time Airbus has to focus on the A380 and to do only strategic plans on a response to the "Dreamliner".

Only my 2 cents...
 
bill142
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:35 am

Ditch the hairdryers and put some bigger engines on it. Increase the MTOW and climb rate and call it tha A340-400
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:42 am

Ditch the hairdryers and put some bigger engines on it. Increase the MTOW and climb rate and call it tha A340-400.

Why increase the climb rate? It climbs just fine, or so say over 200 deliveries.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:46 am

Ditch the hairdryers and put some bigger engines on it.

Careful.

To do that, you'd need to fortify the wing(box) as well as gear/etc, which increases weight, which brings down performance.

Also, you'd have to do the same to the A330s... which could be a major drawback.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Rj111
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:36 pm

If the A350 becomes reality then Airbus could render the A343 obsolete themselves.

Much may depend on the level of investment they are willing to pour into the project. As ConcordeBoy points out the A330/A342/3's was not designed to support 4 large engines, or house two high-bypass engines - which heightening the landing gear may or may not allow. If Airbus is willing to redesign the wing/aircraft to meet the latter criteria, then a long-range twin much like the 772ER could be offered, which would leave no room for the A343. But if Airbus is not planning on redesigning the wing, the jury's out on how far the range of the A333 can be extended through efficiency increase alone, which may leave room for the A343. The natural thing to do then is offer a bleedless A343, but obviously appropriately sized bleedless engines are not currently being studied (AFAIK), which is why IMO, the A343's future looks bleak.
 
ERJ145LR
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:58 pm

what is the a340-300x, like lufthansa has a340-300, and now i have started to see a340x
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:00 pm

Look at it this way. Airbus still offers the A300 and A310. I have a feeling the early A340s will be around for quite some time.  Big grin
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:31 pm

One question: Is the 345 much bigger than the 343 interms of size and passenger accomodation?
 
N79969
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:38 pm

Arent' all A330/340s built on the same line with a lot of the same tooling? If that is the case then it costs Airbus very little to keep that product available.

The 343 seems to do the job for companies like Lufthansa who have a few but I do not see many new ones being sold given the alternatives that are in or around the same niche: B777, 330, 345/346.
 
777ER
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:40 pm

ZKSUJ

The A345 is the same size as the A343 in terms of length. I think it in passenger numbers it has less seats.
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A319114
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:42 pm

The a345 is 13 feet and 5 inches longer than the a343 and typically can hold 13 passengers more (316 in stead of 303)
Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation
 
Leskova
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:44 pm

ZKSUJ, 777ER, the A340-300 is actually a few meters shorter than the A340-500: the -300 is 63.6m in length, the -500 is 67.9m (with the -200 at 59.39m and the -600 at 75.3m).

Airbus mentions 313 passengers for the -500 and 295 passengers for the -300 in what they call "typical three class seating".

Regards,
Frank
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egnr
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:29 pm

"Arent' all A330/340s built on the same line with a lot of the same tooling? If that is the case then it costs Airbus very little to keep that product available."

The A340-500 and A340-600 wings are built on the same line (http://www.electroimpact.com/e4100.asp) using completely different tooling to the classic A340 wings which are made on a different line alongside the A330 wings.

I think the final assembly of all A330/A340 variants takes place on the same "line" in Toulouse though.
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AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:53 pm

hey

i think the only airline that is getting delivers of the 343 now is Swiss and i dont think there has been one in while. Last time i was in TLS which was august i saw nothing but 346s and 345s and 330s.

VS 346
Ib 346
Ib 346
EK 345
NWA A332
NWA A332
QF A330
Egypt A330

and other stuff not a single A343 in sight :-(
No Vueling No Party
 
AFa340-300E
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Replaced By A350

Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:47 pm

Hello,


IMHO the A340-300 could be simply dropped from Airbus' catalog if the A350 comes to fruitition. At 8,000nm range and 280 pax capacity, that airplane would hurt the 777-200ER more than the 7E7-9 it is officially due to combat. And it would kill the A340-300X


Best regards,
Alain Mengus
AirTransportBiz.com
 
keesje
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:24 pm

I expect airbus to come up with a "heavy 333" to go head to head with the 772ER & "replace" the 343 for new operators.. http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1295838

It would IMO less logical for airbus to ad extra range to the 332 (A332 has a good range (e.g. lots of US/European 332s at NAR), so it would be a big investment for a small market segment).
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1730531/6/

However I think little investment is required to keep the 343 up to date & available as an option for customers that e.g prefer 4 engines over the oceans/poles..


"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
trex8
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A350

Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:43 pm

I thought the A350 was a A300 replacement and therefore not a long range aircraft.
 
SAA201
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:00 pm

SAA still have 3 A340-300's on order. They are due for delivery in Jan, Feb and March 2005.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Future Of The A340-300

Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:29 am

However I think little investment is required to keep the 343 up to date & available as an option for customers that e.g prefer 4 engines over the oceans/poles..

Exactly. All the tools are made and the line is in use for the 332/333/345/346. So keeping it in the catalog is no biggie.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo