haan
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:18 pm

Future Routes For SAA

Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:54 pm

Hi all

I have heard that SAA are looking to expand their routes
to Sydney, Singapore and Beijing next year when SAA takes
delivery of the last 2 A340-600's and the last 3 A340-313E's.

B/ragtag
 
SA006
Posts: 1818
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:28 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:14 pm

It would be great to see SAA in SIN because it is a huge Star Alliance destination.

What about BKK? If TG don't start BKK-JNB will SAA go back?

I heard SAA might be moving from JFK to EWR and from ATL to IAD...can anyone comfirm any of this?

Although the 3 routes that Haan mentioned would be very profitable for SAA (I think  Smile/happy/getting dizzy ) . SAA only operate to one destination in Asia...HKG.

Just my two cents

Rgds
SA006
Proudly South African
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:23 pm

SAA used to operate the BKK-JNB flights with a B747SP. I've flown this route lots of times, and for some reason SAA was never able to attract front-end passengers. I guess the route is therefore rather low-yield. Thai Airways has announced they would enter the market, but I wouldn't count on it. Thai Airways maked plenty of announcements, but very little seems ever to come of it.

As for Singapore-South Africa, I'm not sure about the yields on that route either. SQ has downsized quite a bit to South Africa and now operated 2-class B772ER aircraft as opposed to the 3-class B744s a couple of years ago.

 
pera
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:11 pm

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:34 pm

In 2002(?) SAA announced a route to Copenhagen, but they never started. It would be great to see them in Scandinavia!
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:43 pm

In 2002(?) SAA announced a route to Copenhagen, but they never started. It would be great to see them in Scandinavia!

SAA flew to Copenhagen before. I think the route went through Frankfurt.

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I guess that if they wanted to restart, they would do it non-stop.

 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

SAA006

Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:45 pm

SAA only operate to one destination in Asia...HKG.

They also do Bombay daily!
 
DABVF
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:39 pm

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:28 pm

There were and are rumors that SAA will serve the route Johannesburg-Munich daily with Airbus A340-300 starting Summer 2005.
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3663
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:29 pm

What about JNB-CTG!!! Great tourist destination!!!  Nuts
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:05 am

Service to SIN and BKK would make sense, in consideration of the Star Alliance connection possibilities at both airports, but, as pointed out above, it could be a yeild issue and not enough premium traffic to support the routes. The A343s would make sense on these routes, far less seats to fill up and the potential to keep fares a bit higher and make the routes more profitable.

It is surprising that SAA does not fly to Sydney, due to the historical connections between South Africa and Australia, and the fact that so many South Africans have immigrated to Australia. There must be business ties as well between the two countries.

As for service to Europe, I do not expect SAA to add many more destinations, by now flying from both Joberg and Capetown to key European hubs (ie, F R A and MUN), passengers can transit the hub and LH can get the pax to their final destination. More and more, airlines are reluctant to enter a market where daily service cannot be supported (yeilds tend to be lower on routes that do not operate on a daily basis.....premium business travellers more or less demand daily service). Also, tag-on flights (say flying to Munich and then to Copenhagen) are rather ineffecient and expensive to operate - sending out an A340 with 100 pax for a short segment is an expensive hobby.

I also heard that SAA was thinking of moving their US services from ATL and JFK to IAD and EWR......while I understand the logic of going into IAD instead of ATL due to Star Alliance connections and support at IAD, I never really understood why the JFK to EWR change was being considered......UA is no longer a strong player at EWR and I think that the majority of traffic on the Joberg-NYC flights is O & D.....any updates?
 
SA006
Posts: 1818
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:28 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:34 am

HB-IWC

I think SQ fly their 747-400's to JNB during peak seasons i.e summer. Just like CX who , in winter here , fly A343's instead of the 744 in summer.

Jasepl - sorry my bad  Big thumbs up

Rgds
SA006
Proudly South African
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:40 am

They also do Bombay daily!

For starters, nobody flies to Bombay anymore - its Mumbai now as you well know.  Big grin

Also, SAA won't be starting daily service until February. It will continue to run as 5x weekly until then.


"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Vimanav
Posts: 1440
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 4:33 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:14 am

Also, SAA won't be starting daily service until February. It will continue to run as 5x weekly until then.

They also expect to commence DEL by then.

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:12 am

For starters, nobody flies to Bombay anymore - its Mumbai now as you well know

I'm sorry Sean, it will always be Bombay to me.
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:24 am

Didn't we have a chat on the Mumbai/Bombay "thing" recently?

I wouldn't be surprised to see SAA expanding into Beijing soon. Would this flight be nonstop, could that be done with the 346?

Would they keep the Codeshare with QF if SAA flew into SYD?
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
behramjee
Posts: 4367
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:19 am

If PEK and SIN are on the drawing board then it would be best if they fly to PEK via SIN using the A 346s and in the process obtain 5th freedom rights on the SIN-PEK-SIN route. JNB-SIN-PEK-SIN-JNB should begin initially with a 3 weekly A 346 service and then increase gradually depending upon yield and demand.

Even though BKK is a STAR Hub...there is no need to fly there as SIN is a higher yielding destination and SAA pax can easily hop on to the many daily TG/SQ SIN-BKK-SIN flights that are available to them.

Doesnt SAA also fly to JAPAN or is HKG their only Far East destination?

SYD would be a big money route for SAA and they should look into it seriously with daily or at least starting with 4 weekly A 346s.

Like Vimanav and Sean pointed out...DEL is confirmed for next spring and BOM will go daily.
 
DavidYYC
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:01 pm

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:43 am

It would be nice to see SAA in Toronto, I wonder how likely that is? There is fair bit of business now between the two counties and quite a few South Africans living in Canada.
 
ZKOJH
Posts: 1463
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:04 pm

I think we could see them flying from j'beg to chc before to long another sign that they are moving into star alliance and then codeshare with airnz
Vietnam time..
 
SA006
Posts: 1818
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:28 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:02 pm

DavidYCC

I don't think SAA would have the range for YYZ (they could make a stop but they already make stops in DKR for ATL and JFK). SAA have some good American partners so I doubt YYZ will be a route for them. What about AC YYZ-JNB with the A345?

Aren't Air India thinking of starting BOM-JNB/DUR?? I heard that somewhere...maybe our Indian sources can provide an answer  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Rgds
SA006
Proudly South African
 
LXsaab2000
Posts: 320
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 10:00 pm

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:16 pm

SAA will stop flying to Milan MXP from November. They'll have only a seasonal service on a base of 3 weekly service ( 25 days between December 04and January 05 and about 3 months between July 05 and September 05)
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:19 pm

Aren't Air India thinking of starting BOM-JNB/DUR?? I heard that somewhere...maybe our Indian sources can provide an answer

I hardly qualify as a source, but I seriously doubt it. AI did do a BOM-DAR-DUR run a few years ago, but, unsurprisingly, it was short-lived.
 
SA006
Posts: 1818
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:28 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:42 pm

Ok thanks Jasepl

DUR is full of Indians. I think its the province with the biggest amount of Indians.

Rgds
SA006
Proudly South African
 
Mulder
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:10 pm

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:13 am

ZkojhI: If SAA was to fly to CHC, it might well consider a stop somewhere in Australia. Wouldn't you think? They have existing agreement with QF anyway.
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:13 am

Aren't Air India thinking of starting BOM-JNB/DUR?? I heard that somewhere...maybe our Indian sources can provide an answer

Well, if you go out to Jo'burg airport today you might catch VT-ESN sitting around waiting for President Kalam to finish up before flying over to Cape Town. Alas, that is the closest you will see AI flying to South Africa this year....
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
LHR27C
Posts: 846
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:49 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:13 am

I have wondered if, like PIA, SQ etc, there might be demand for a MAN-JNB/CPT service from SAA. The LHR loads are always very high, surely SAA could fill at least a 343 from MAN and so attract some passengers from the North travelling to LHR for South Africa flights.

On the other hand, I suppose their codeshare agreement with BD means that pax fly MAN-LHR to connect onto the SAA flights...
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned forever skyward
 
PlaneGuy27
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:38 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:22 am

What about them returning to Miami with a couple of weekly's? That is such a huge market for them.

 
col
Posts: 1695
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:11 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:16 am

Didn't SAA used to fly MAN-JNB, but it was not successful? Certainly with Star building MAN it would make an interesting addition.
 
changyou
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 10:57 pm

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:34 am

The yield from SIN-JNB is good and SQ uses the 772ER during winter and summer. SQ will start SIN-CPT twice a week soon and SIN-JNB will be a daily departure. I'm not surprise if SAA will put their pax on SQ to other asia destinations from SIN once they join STAR.
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:44 am

Alas, that is the closest you will see AI flying to South Africa this year....

Go on then, reveal all...
 
andz
Posts: 7628
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:26 am

SAA used to fly on to MAN from Paris.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:39 am

Would be nice if they started flights to North Africa like Cairo or Casablanca.

Horus

EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
ETStar
Posts: 1850
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:25 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:58 am

Horus,
I believe RAM or Air Algerie tried flying to JNB a while back from CMN/ALG, but did not turn out ok.
 
airish
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:42 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:49 am

It will be interesting to see what type of aircraft SAA fly to DEL

Like Jasepl said I would hardly qualify as a source but I would not be surprised to see AI look at launching flights again to South Africa when maybe there is second batch of leased aircraft delivered
Worlds Only Reputable Airline Air India! Some Of The Least: BA, Jet (9w), Kingfisher!
 
SA006
Posts: 1818
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:28 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:35 am

Changyou

SQ currently operate SIN-JNB-CPT-JNB-SIN but as you say will start direct

SAA used to fly to CAI and DXB but it seems they have stopped for who knows what reason....maybe a lack of aircraft? Or maybe SAA have enough partners to get good coinnections into CAI...airlines such as Ethiopian and even LH..

Rgds
SA006

(Sorry for the late post)
Proudly South African
 
David_itl
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:41 am

The MAN-CDG-CPT-JNB service ran from March 1990 to October 1994 but got dropped as soon as SA were able to fly to those countries that had banned them due to apartheid. The peak year was 1991 when around 15,500 passengers used the service - I think it was running weekly then, with a 2nd weekly service operating infrequently in subsequent years.

SA do/did have plans to operate into MAN but appear to have postponed them for the time being but if BD were to operate MAN-JNB, I wouldn't be too suprised if SA decide to codeshare that service.

David
 
levent
Posts: 1589
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:11 pm

RE: Future Routes For SAA

Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:49 am

What about Valencia, Spain?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
A South African colleague of mine visited my home a few times and says everything is just like in Cape Town! We could trade diamonds against nice and juicy oranges.

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