justloveplanes
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B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:11 am

It seems this year, Boeing has lost a lot of 777 opportunities to Airbus. Some of them big. Is Airbus just winning on price? Why are the tables seeming to turn? This year sales are favoring A instead of B it seems where the 777 led the market before. This has to be a serious worry for Boeing.

JLP.
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:19 am

Not another A vs B thread.......


 Angry  Nuts  Angry  Nuts  Angry  Nuts



Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
justloveplanes
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:25 am

I can't help myself!!!! It's driving me crazy and I MUST KNOW!!!

Actually, we shouldn't shy away from this. A vs. B is IMO far and away the most fascinating industrial competition in the world. It involves everything from technology to global politics, but its the technology that fascinates me. I am really trying to understand why the market preference seems to have changed this year.

However, I do hope we can discuss this enjoyably.....  Big grin

 
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solnabo
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:53 am

I cant see that 777 loosing ground, just look at AF order (10?)for the -300ER and NZ 777´s. Bet there´s more!

Micke/SE Big grin
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
dan2002
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:06 am

Oh boy, you better hope ConcordeBoy doesnt see this! And if anything I would say the 330/340 is losing more ground than the T7.


-Dan
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
futureualpilot
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:21 am

Did NZ really order 777s? I hope so, they will look sweet in those colors.

Sorry, I must have missed that announcement if they did.
Life is better when you surf.
 
airplane
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:30 am

Its Aircraft price,
that's why you rarely see small, or start up airlines with new Boeing, usually they go with Airbus because they are economic in price.


The sky´s the limit
 
Leskova
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:34 am

Actually, Airplane, I'd say that you'd "usually" see those small or start-up airlines you're talking about take off with either used Boeings, McDonnell Douglasses or Fokkers: how many startups - with the exception of JetBlue - have started out with a fleet of new Airbusses (or Boeings)?

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
airxliban
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:36 am

11 777 orders this year plus the 5 Etihad ones

13 A330/40 orders this year plus the Virgin ones if i am not mistaken.

PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:44 am

Airbus has beem marketing the A340 much more aggressivly as of late, largely due to thier large investment in the A340-500/600. The A342/A343 are, or were, good airplanes, but Boeing really outdid themselves with the 777. It's technological prowess, excellent performance, and sales record speaks for itself. For this reason, the 777 largely crushed the A343.

But with the A345/A346 Airbus has a really good airplane to offer that in some ways are better than the 777 offerings, or were avialable long before the 777-300ER/200LR. It isn't that the 777 is losing ground, the A340 is just doing a better job competing.
 
airplane
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:48 am

That is why I wrote NEW Boeing, because when a small airline wants to acquire new aircraft "usually" they go with Airbus because of the price.
Yes they usually go with the aircraft you mentioned but that is when they go USED.
The sky´s the limit
 
airplane
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:53 am

Excellent post DfwRevolution.....
JP
The sky´s the limit
 
ua777222
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:23 am

The 777 will not lose ground to the 340 series. Not to turn this into that BIG of an a vs. b but Boeing produced an a/c that is outstanding and in a class of it's own. I haven't heard of any operators who have had major issues with the 777 (a/c issues, the pilots who can't cal. t/o weight or those who can't taxi are not the a/c's issues) other than the recent number of engine changes, but that is expect with any a/c.

The 777 can out do the 340 in most if not all performance areas. And with the many advances of the 777 there are little upgrades here and there as to the 340 class that's a lot of everything.

The numbers will look in Airbus' favor b/c the a/c isn't as expensive as the 777. But with choosing the cheapest a/c they will end up paying in the end. Airbus is also serving to country's and airlines who don't have large economy issues like that of Boeing.

And the 340 is like a big cheap bus so to say. It has size and a price tag that is appealing to start up airlines and airlines who need an a/c but don't want to pay that much. I'm not saying that the a/c itself is a POS just that airbus has made cuts in quality in order to meet the asking price of many operators.

Correct me in 10 years when the 340's are still flying and the 777's are sitting in the desert. (Due to a/c issues not airline issues) The 777 is the newer 747. Is the best out there in performance and will not die for much time to come. The 747 is still in production and is behind the 777 in a few area's. So the 777 is here to stay and there are many loyal operators of the a/c who too will stick with the a/c.

Yeah it's great to look cool and have the newest a/c on the market (345/6 & 380) but it's always best to silently win the race....

Thanks again

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
starrion
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:38 am

"11 777 orders this year plus the 5 Etihad ones

13 A330/40 orders this year plus the Virgin ones if i am not mistaken.
"


Plus 18 T7 for SQ. Thai also ordered six T7 but that hasn't posted yet either.

So they're pretty much neck and neck.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
keesje
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:47 am

And the 340 is like a big cheap bus so to say. It has size and a price tag that is appealing to start up airlines and airlines who need an a/c but don't want to pay that much.
Are you sure about that Ua777222?  Big grin


Airbus is also serving to country's and airlines who don't have large economy issues like that of Boeing.
but they still go for the cheap ones, hmm ...

NWA got the 333 because is offered significant lower seat mile cost on the Atlantic & the 772ER just didn´t fit in for the Pacific..

The 333 uses signifiant less fuel then the 772ER for the same 300 pax/cargo routes up to 5000 miles... check it ..

That said the 777 is a very good aircraft, but lets not exaggerate, it´s not a miracle plane...
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
ua777222
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:06 am

When a 777 is running 747 routes and and can out do a 4 engine a/c in performance and range I would say it has the 340 by the balls......

The 777 was supposed to be an advanced 767 but turned out to be an entirely new a/c all together. The 340 is a 330 with 4 engines. You know it's a cheaper design when they take the same wing and slam it on a different body...... That's like taking a hub cap of an entirely different car and putting it on yours b/c it kinda fits and doesn't look that bad.

The 777 is a fantastic a/c and will be at the top of it's class for time to come. I want to say that the 777 can run the same routes as the 380 but time will only tell...

Thanks again.

UA777222

And they only go with the cheap ones b/c airbus kiss' some major butt and offers deals that no one would refuse (Jetblue ring a bell???)
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
Leskova
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:15 am

And they only go with the cheap ones b/c airbus kiss' some major butt and offers deals that no one would refuse (Jetblue ring a bell???)

... actually, JetBlue doesn't ring more of a bell than Ryanair does...

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
ua777222
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:26 am

What is the Ryanair deal? I thought they were only 737 guys. They have A LOT of a/c on order if I recall correctly......

Any info would be great Leskova!

Thanks again Leskova!!

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:27 am

NWA got the 333 because is offered significant lower seat mile cost on the Atlantic & the 772ER just didn´t fit in for the Pacific.. The 333 uses signifiant less fuel then the 772ER for the same 300 pax/cargo routes up to 5000 miles...check it

If you take a look at NW's reasoning behind the desicion (and I'm not going to insult you and say you havn't), they specifically required the PW4000... possibly the worst 777 powerplant versus one of the best A330 powerplants. Their diehard PW, and only out of spite will order GE or RR.

Had NW considered the Trent 800 or GE90 offerings, perhaps there would have been different results.

... actually, JetBlue doesn't ring more of a bell than Ryanair does...

The 737 deal was a rather sleezy move by Ryanair. In the wake of 9/11 and massive order delays/cancellations, Ryanair basically went to Boeing and said "Look, you can't afford to lose us, take-off your pants, bend over, or we're goin to Leahy." In January 2002, Boeing simply couldn't pass up an offer for 100 frames.

And they only go with the cheap ones b/c airbus kiss' some major butt and offers deals that no one would refuse (Jetblue ring a bell???)

U2 would probably be a better example.

[Edited 2004-09-12 23:29:22]
 
ua777222
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:35 am

Yeah but the Ryanair deal was them milking Boeing. Airbus is milking the airlines. What was the deal with Jetblue? That they would give them the frames for dirt cheap and then would have them pay it back over time? Was this with interest? Now they can do this b/c they still have $$ in the bank (Airbus) and it will put their product in even bigger numbers in the US thus raising their odds of more orders...

Thanks again

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
Mir
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:40 am

The 340 is a 330 with 4 engines. You know it's a cheaper design when they take the same wing and slam it on a different body...... That's like taking a hub cap of an entirely different car and putting it on yours b/c it kinda fits and doesn't look that bad.

Umm, that was actually an amazing achievement with the 330/340. They designed a wing that was good for both 4 and 2 engines, thus saving millions (if not billions) in the development process, and thus being able to pass those savings along to the airlines.

More like realizing that you don't have to spend money designing different hubcaps for cars that are almost the same, you can just use one that looks good.

I won't argue that the 777 is a better plane than the 340, but Airbus does make quality planes. The 320 is just as good as the 737, and there's no quality skimped on in the 330/340.

7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Imonti
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:45 am

Off the subject, instead of people arguing that A is better than B or B is better than A, the new cry is that people always saying im not here to start an A v. B and if you are then your a moron. Also what daft is when people say things such as

Not another A vs B thread.......


I mean come on their have been quite a few posts that have not landed up being Boeing is better than Airbus becuase the sky is blue and grass green. So instead of people saying A is better than B the new craze seems to be, here is another A v B or I am not intending to start an A v B.
 
keesje
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:48 am

If you take a look at NW's reasoning behind the desicion (and I'm not going to insult you and say you havn't)
I did, a published interview with their VP fleet mngt.

they specifically required the PW4000... possibly the worst 777 powerplant versus one of the best A330 powerplants. Their diehard PW, and only out of spite will order GE or RR.

NWA has had a preference for PW sofar but are not addicted to it. If GE or RR comes with a better deal, they´ll act pragmatic.

It was payload/range (Pacific) and fuel consumption (Atlantic) that made them pass the 777.

Too much (Atl) & not enough (Pac) aircraft NWA said.. They have a good relationship with Boeing.


"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
chris78cpr
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:53 am

In my opinion the 777 is fast beating the 340 in to the ground! The 340 comfort wise has a long way to go before it becomes any where close to being of the standard the T7 is!!! I have flown the 346 and 343 in the last 3 months and both were terrbible!!! The T7's i have flown were beautiful in comparison!

Chris
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solnabo
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:54 am

I´m I the only one here thinking some people think that the 777 is gods gift to this earth *or sky!*?? Jeeeehhhh  Nuts

Micke/SE

Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
ua777222
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:05 am

Yeah the wing might have saved them $$ but the wing on the 777 is one big point that it is kicking the 340's butt. It takes longer for it to get there and lowers it's range...

Thanks again.

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
AF-A319
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:44 am

It's the first time I contribute to a A vs. B discussion, but let me tell you the following:

I travel between CDG and YUL several times a year (I do approximatively 4 roundtrips a year). I usually travel AF or BA in Y (and sometimes get u/g in J) on 744, 343 and 777.

As a passenger, both in the Y and J cabin, I can say that the 777 is much more comfortable than its competitor. I always feel cramped on a A340. I think this has to do with the heigth of cabin and its space. The comparaison is easy on AF as the airlines have the sames seats on both airplanes. The 777 is clearly the most comfortable, despite its 3-3-3 or 2-3-2 config. Before flying regularly on both airplanes, I thought that this config was a clear drawback. Actually, it's not!

 
AA787
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:45 am

Going back to the thread...does anyone have solid evidence to show that the A340 is beating the T7? Because so far I haven't seen any.

AA787
ET In NYC
 
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Francoflier
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:17 am

Going back to the thread...does anyone have solid evidence to show that the A340 is beating the T7? Because so far I haven't seen any.

Frankly I don't know...

But at least 15 years old school student Ua777222 keeps assuring us that the 777 is absolutely, undoubtedly, the best airliner in the universe....

How much more evidence of the contrary do you need??

(I wonder why the Power Rangers haven't bought one yet...?)


Those threads, although very attractive at fisrt because animated and colorful, do become tiresome when you realize that what you read is a lot of engaged people's opinions and too few informed people's objective point of view, based on facts.

Too bad though. Might sound stupid, but maybe the administrators should open a new forum dedicated to A vs B "hearings".
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
ua777222
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:19 am

VERY Hard to find a factual peace of evidence.

Here is an article about maintains between airbus 340 and boeing 777 by AF who operates both types.

http://www.aviationtoday.com/cgi/am/show_mag.cgi?pub=am&mon=0603&file=0603airbus_vs_boeing.htm

Here's an article about PIA's decision to buy 8 777 a/c at the price of about 10 340 a/c.

http://www.dawn.com/2004/03/25/top4.htm

Here's a Special Report On Global Market Outlook For Wide-Body Aircraft for different airlines.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ZCK/is_39_11/ai_79083755

Here's a PDF about the tech. approach compared to the old school Boeing way (probably from the mid to late 80's

http://www.dau.mil/pubs/arq/94arq/batte.pdf


Hope this helps. Will be looking for more as I go.

Thanks again.

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
ZKOJH
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:21 am

Hi,

I dout boeing are losing the battle, SQ have just loI to buy 31 aircraft mainly longhaul and ANZ have brought 6 new aircraft with options on another 42 mainly 772/3's so the next few years will be busy for them, and then the lcc in europe are going mad at the moment, mainly ryainair
Vietnam time..
 
ua777222
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:27 am

Francofiler,

I have had hands on time in and around the 777. And when I speak and read about the two a/c, when you put them together the 777 comes out on top. Please show me wrong. When numbers can be put up to the 777 and beat it then I will stand corrected.

Here is the performance posted for the 777 by boeing;

http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/777.htm

Here is the performance posted for the A340 by airbus.

http://www.airbus.com/product/a340_a300_performance.asp

Thanks again.

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
gearup
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:27 am

It's a good thing that airlines don't check this forum to get the 'informed' opinions of some of the contributors to this debate. I guess if they did, it would come down to who uses the most scientific arguments like "is one big point that it is kicking the 340's butt", or "is fast beating the 340 in to the ground" and "You know it's a cheaper design when they take the same wing and slam it on a different body...... " and other such utter nonsense as this! I am so sick of this ridiculous clap-trap and there seems to be no end to it. I think it was Hemingway who said, " opinions are like assh**es, everyone has one". I guess everyone is entitled to express their opinions but a real scientific debate about the relative merits of different aircraft would be nice once in a while instead of this "my **** is bigger than yours" stuff. As far as the 777 is concerned, it a good airplane for sure, but as someone as already wisely said, "it's not a miracle plane by any means". By the same token, it is pure bull**** to imply that the A340 is a pile of junk.

GU
I have no memory of this place.
 
ua777222
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:39 am

"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
gigneil
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:01 am

I have had hands on time in and around the 777

No, you have not.

N
 
neednewairport
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:45 am

IMHO

Boeing does not offer a decent narrow body option or a decent midsized wide body option. For fleet commonality it would make more sense to buy 320 series and then buy the 340 and 330 because of commonality.....
 
Reggaebird
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:09 pm


Re: Northwest Airlines A330 order. I thought that I had read that NWA executives wanted to cancel the order back in the 1990's but that Airbus wouldn't let them without huge penalties. If I am not mistaken, that order was on the books for many, many years. Does this ring a bell with anyone else?

Reggaebird
 
airplane
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:38 pm

I think there is enough cake for both Boeing and Airbus. The differences in production are not tremendous.

JP
The sky´s the limit
 
biggles313
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:48 pm

to those who say they think the 777 is more comfortable than the 330/340:


this is purely a question of personal opinion, but based on experience of all three types on the same routes, I prefer the 330 and 340 to the 777 in terms of the cabin, especially in economy class. Clearly the airline's individual appointments also make a difference, but to me, the lighting and air quality on the Airbus aircraft are noticeably better than on the triple-7. The A340 is also quieter than either of the twins; in economy where one is often far behind the wing, it makes a difference.

It is a known fact in the industry that the 777 has issues with air recirculation. Clearly, more fresh air means more fuel (the Gulfstream IV has fresh engine bleed air all the time, never recirculated) and Boeing increased the recirculation on the 777 to improve the fuel economy. A 777 with few pax on board feels great, but when the cabin is full in my experience it has been hot and stuffy. The 330 and 340 have never been as bad for me.

The overall size and diameter of the cabins are similar enough for valid comparison, in my view.

my findings are based on:

B777 on the north atlantic with BA - both the GE90 and Trent versions (the Trent idles much quieter and perhaps a bit quieter in cruise)

330 and 340 on same or similar routes with Air Canada. And don't say the pax loads were lower on AC than on BA because in almost all cases the Y-class was packed.



all that said, I'd rather be on an old 74 than anything else on long haul.
 
Thrust
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:05 pm

The Boeing 777 is a greater accomplishment than either the A330 or the A340...the A340 is just a traditional four-engined jetliner, and the A330 has the range of the 777, but not the payloads. The 777 is the world's largest twin-engined jetliner, uses the most powerful engines...and Airbus has yet to actually develop a twin-engined jet that is a perfectly equal to the 777. The 787, as the 7E7 will officially be renamed, hopefully will bring new hope for Boeing. As for Airbus challenging the 7E7, it is pure boasting until they actually come out with something. We'll see.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
netdhaka
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:31 pm

I think whether T7 is more comfortable than 330/340 is a subjective matter. However, they should not be too far apart. In 2001 I flew in AA T7 from ORD-LHR and then took a Gulf Air 332 from LHR. My impression was that AA T7 interior was noticeable better with more legroom, wider and brighter cabin. This March I few ORD-LHR on UA T7. The interior looked old, seats worn out with very little legroom. It was less than impressive. It seemed few tall passengers around me were basically going through torture with so little legroom while trying to have some sleep. On the other hand, newer 330/340’s are getting great reviews on pretty much every article I read. Yesterday, I read Airways magazine (current issue) and their cover story was about SQ SIN-EWR flight. They spoke highly about the aircraft throughout the entire article. They included quotes from SIN officials who spoke highly about the aircraft as well. I am saying this because I think people who operate these types of planes are in a better position to comment about the performance of them.

By the way, the piece on the Airways magazine was excellent with lots of interesting facts. Try to read it, if you can (I read it at Barns and Nobles).

This December I am scheduled to fly in NWA332 and EK 773. I will be in a better position to compare the comforts on these planes at the end of my journey.
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:32 pm

Did NZ really order 777s? I hope so, they will look sweet in those colors. Yes NZ has ordered the T7. 8x B772ERs as well as 2x B7E7-8s. 4 of the B772s will be leased thou. NZ also has 42 options on the B777 and B7E7 family.
 
SNATH
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:38 pm

Just to add my two pennies worth about B777 vs. A340/A330 cabin confort.

I've flown on both many times. My preferred seat is a window and, during
redeyes, I like to put my pillow against the wall/window and lean on it.
What really bothers me about the 'buses is, because of the curvature of
the wall, there seems to be a non-trivial gap between the seat and the wall
at the height where my head is and I always end up at an unconfortable
position. Despite the T7 being perfectly round too, it doesn't seem to have
this problem (I assume because either it's wider or the floor is at a different
height). In fact, that's not the problem on the B747s or B767s either, due to
the wall being less curvy. So I have noticed that I do find it more difficult to
sleep in 'buses than Boeings and that's my main gripe about them.

In terms of interior, they are both fine, even though the curvy ceiling and
overhead bins of the T7 probably have the edge, in my opinion.

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
IL76TD
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:04 pm

every time i fly IAD-FRA-DXB, the first leg is on a UA 777 (business) and the second leg is on an LH A343 (business). I cannot stress, there is no comparison between the two, the 777 is a far more comfortable, roomy, and smooth aircraft. I like the way back much better, as it is a bonus to get the T7 for 8 hours after being in the 343 for 6 hours.

[Edited 2004-09-13 10:21:00]
 
keesje
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:05 pm

On cabin comfort:

On a 777 you have a better chance to get a middle seat,
some people probably prefer those..

On the NWA preference for the 333 over the 772, it had nothing to do with the old 330 order.. piles of narrow body's have been bought since & Airbus was wise enough never to put on any pressure...

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
na
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:06 pm

Airliners.net rule: never critisize the 777, you´ll stirr up many people with partial opinions. Far more so than if you critisize the A340 or other aircraft.

777 and 340 are both excellent aircraft, and besides that I prefer quads there are no important issues that make me prefer one or the other. The differences are academic. Only the price tag difference is very considerable, in favour of the A340. Thats the only thing all of us "experts" here can count on.
 
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glideslope
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:37 pm


The only difference this year is Airbus is now selling the 340 at near cost. As we all know this is due to the huge taxpayer subsidies from the hard working taxpayers of Britain, France, Spain, and Germany. Of course this is due to the 30-35 work weeks and huge Union presence forcing Airbus to receive the subsidies.

Once the WTO situation hits the news everyone will see Airbus' unfair pricing advantage in the market.

If Airbus were required to repay their development loans they would still have the 300 as their pride and joy.

But hey, it's a global economy. We all know aircraft sales are about politics anyway.

Airbus' success is about the rest of the world trying to lessen the economic prowess of the United States. Make no mistake.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:47 pm

777 gotta be better because A340 is built in "socialist" Europe and only they use all kinds of dirty tricks to sell their a/c.

Signed,

Tasha
 
IL76TD
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:48 pm

"On a 777 you have a better chance to get a middle seat,
some people probably prefer those.."

well excuse it for being a bigger plane, i'd rather have a middle seat in an less claustrophobic feeling plane than be in gollum's cave for 8 hours with overhead bins 12 inches from my head


NA, that's an understandable position, however, there are many differences other than the price tag
 
keesje
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RE: B777 Losing Ground To A340/330?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:06 pm

Now back on the 777, does it use relative much fuel on transatlantic services ?

The cross section is wider & it has bigger engines then the same seat & ld3 capasity A333.

Does anyone have specific fuel consumption figures (transatlantic) comparing 777 and 333 ?

 Acting devilish

Just stirring up things a bit  Big grin, IMO the B777 is a great aircraft, certainly maintenance wise compared to older generation widebody's (as are 330/340) and the GE90 very good engines.


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"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway

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