Regis
Topic Author
Posts: 281
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:49 am

NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:13 pm

I thought Delta was one of the better financially shaped airlines among the majors, with billions in cash reserves. What happened?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/13/business/13air.html?hp
 
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RobK
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:14 pm

Better copy and paste it as I imagine most of us aren't members and have no desire to create a username and password just to read this article.

RK
 
Cory6188
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:01 pm

Where does it talk about DL in this article? It's only a recap of what's going on with bankruptcy at US.
 
Cory6188
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:02 pm

My bad, sorry. Here's the little blurb on DL in the article:

"Delta Air Lines, which is pressing its pilots to grant $1 billion in wage and benefit cuts, has warned that it could also seek bankruptcy protection by the end of the month.

[Edited 2004-09-13 13:03:05]
 
panamair
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:13 pm

This title is misleading...there's a big difference between "could" vs. "likely" here...anyway, there has been no update of DL's plans for Chap.11 since the release of the transformation plan last week...
 
bobnwa
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:35 pm

Regis,

Did you read something that wasn't in the article?
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:43 pm

Isn't this the same publication that said UA was supposed to die 6 months ago and US shouldn't exist anymore as well? I've lost any faith I had in the NYT...
 
prosa
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:14 pm

Better copy and paste it as I imagine most of us aren't members and have no desire to create a username and password just to read this article.

Copying and pasting an entire article might be a copyright violation. Usually, if I'm going to mention something in a subscribers-only newspaper article, I give a summary for those who don't want to register and add the link for those who may want to know more.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Sabena332
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:22 pm

Copying and pasting an entire article might be a copyright violation.

That is correct, please do not copy and paste the complete article or we mods have to delete this thread.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Regis
Topic Author
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:34 pm

This title is misleading...there's a big difference between "could" vs. "likely" here

You are right Panamair, I should have used "could" instead of "likely".

Regis, Did you read something that wasn't in the article?

No, all I read was in the NYT article.

Better copy and paste it as I imagine most of us aren't members and have no desire to create a username and password just to read this article.

Agree, but A.net's copyright policy prevents me from doing that.
 
planemaker
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:16 pm

"Analysts: Delta plan likely won't be enough to stave off bankruptcy
Many analysts say they think a Chapter 11 filing remains likely for Delta Air Lines despite the turnaround plan the carrier announced Wednesday. Experts cite the possibility that large numbers of Delta pilots will opt for early retirement this month as a potential reason for the carrier to file for Chapter 11, perhaps as soon as Oct. 1.

...one analyst to raise the chances of a Delta bankruptcy from 50 percent to 70 percent..."


There have been several publications that have echoed the same theme on a Delta Chap. 11. Unfortunately, most are by subcription - free (Atlanta: Journal and Constitution) and paid (Wall Street Journal)... however, here´s one that doesn´t need you to sign up:

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/09/10/biz_delta10.html
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
DAYflyer
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:37 am

The feeling in SW Ohio is that DL is on the brink of bankruptcy, regardless of the marketing and media hype. It is no secret that DL has had trouble since 9-11 and the loss of US could only bring help to all the other legacy carriers. DL, United, American and CO will all look like Airtran pretty soon. They will have to do this just to stay around and only offer 1st or business at the rate that Airtran does.

The days of $120/hr PIC jobs is going the way of the Dino. FA's at $40/hr will also be a thing of the past.
One Nation Under God
 
airtran737
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:43 am

As Dennis Miller recently said to George Bush Sr. regarding the NY Times, " I don't read the Times anymore, I prefer to get my accurate information from the weekly edition of the Auto Trader."
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
ifly2eat
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:37 am

"The days of $120/hr PIC jobs is going the way of the Dino."

Tell me, exactly how much is an airline Captain worth these days to you, since you know so much? Minimum wage perhaps? I applaud the USAirways pilots as of late. Eventually, it comes to a point where the job is not worth doing and the wage these airline executives want to pay. Don't pretend to know what it takes to do MY job or what I am worth.
Fly the friendly skys and stay out of mine.
 
gigneil
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:03 am

Eventually, it comes to a point where the job is not worth doing and the wage these airline executives want to pay.

Then they should quit. Better than being fired for sure when the company goes under.

The bottom line is the market won't bear their rates. If they were normal human beings and worked anywhere else, they'd long since have been canned.

N
 
ifly2eat
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:39 am

Interesting...But USAirways' pilots are compensated less than SWA or AirTran. Seems more like a management problem.
Fly the friendly skys and stay out of mine.
 
AASTEW
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:47 am

RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:39 pm

Yep, I gotta just laugh at the industry outsiders on this forum.

How much is a Pilot, Mechanic, F/A worth? Just bring the wages down to minimum wage, so that upper management can run out of town like the wild coyote with millions in hand.

This industry has certainly changed! Now it is just a great job with no future!



 
N6376M
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:38 pm

If the bankruptcy court approves UA's motion to disavow it's pension plan, DL will file for bankruptcy. This is the only way they'll be able to compete on a level playing field.

Why should only a couple of carriers continue to bear the huge liabilities and cash flow drains that these pension plans carry when others can write of billions of dollars in debt and free up $500M in cash flow by going to court?

The only question is whether it will be a pre-packaged BK filing or not.
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:25 am

AASTEW

I am involved the industry, I am not saying minimum wage, but when 120,000 a year computer programming jobs are going to India for 25,000 and those left with jobs all took 20-40% paycuts you have to wake up to the reality of mis-valued supply and demand.

There are 1000's of pilots on the street furloughed. the supply exceeds demand therefore prices (wages) drop. it is simple economics. I don't like it either but it happens.

Flight attendants are always underpaid period they don;t need to EVER take a pay cut (in my mind). Same with ground workers.

the average FAMILY income in the US is 37,200 , a 150,000 salary which was cut from FROM 220,000 isn't so bad. Think of all the taxes that are saved  Smile

Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:33 am

Interesting...But USAirways' pilots are compensated less than SWA or AirTran. Seems more like a management problem.

IFLY2EAT,
you hit the nail right on the head, the latest issue with US is nothing more than to break those overpaid underworked union minions-sarcasm. i know there are people in here that would pimp them selves out for nothing, but you get what you pay for..dayflyer, im assuming you are pro management,look at the following rates and tell me that its a greedy employees problem when wn is paying thoses rates and still making cash,
us-144/hr
aa-150/hr
ua-139/hr...you have to be kidding me
wn-172/hr
dl--222/hr...i had to throw that in here
all rates are based on a 7 year capt on the 733(aa is based on the 738)
pilotpay.com..............................
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
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RE: NYT: Delta Likely To File For Bankruptcy

Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:49 am

US Is a management problem for sure. Pilots have already given enough! They bought too many Airbuses and didn't embrace RJ's until it was too late. I have had 3 US pilot friend s get furloughed 2 are at America West the other is not flying. they had 12 years seniority at a minimum and still got cut.


the DL Pilots should be at 150 or so, or work have more flexible work rules like WN.
in any event $222 is not the norm.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure