LifelinerOne
Topic Author
Posts: 1501
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:30 pm

CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:25 pm

CSA Czech Airlines today announced that it is going to order about 12 new planes for their mediumhaul network. It wants bids from Airbus and Boeing on their desk before Wednesday 15 September 15.00 hrs local time.

CSA looks in a little hurry, because it wants to fly the new planes next year. CEO Tvrdik had it's last talks with Boeing and Airbus last week, but hopes to get better offers in two days.

CSA wants to use the planes on scheduled and charter flights and will be leased via an operational lease.

Well, what will they choose? Will they stay with the B737's or will they go with A32X? I'm also very curious about plans on replacing their A310's, anyone has any info in this?

Cheers!
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5455
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:38 pm

CSA Czech Airlines today announced that it is going to order about 12 new planes for their mediumhaul network. It wants bids from Airbus and Boeing on their desk before Wednesday 15 September 15.00 hrs local time.

The request for proposal was sent back in April so the only new thing is that the deadline is coming up.

I'm also very curious about plans on replacing their A310's, anyone has any info in this?

I think they plan to get A330 at one point. But I don't think they're getting rid of the A310s in near future, since there will be 4th A310 added to CSA's fleet in November. They plan to use it mainly for charter flights to Fortaleza, Brazil, Varadero in Cuba and one destination in Venezuela.
 
User avatar
TS-IOR
Posts: 3518
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 9:44 pm

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:02 pm


I guess CSA is to go Airbus. The French maybe doing great efforts on that !!!
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10022
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:07 pm

I'd say that Airbus will give them an offer they cannot possibly turn down for a selection of A319s and A320s. I wonder if Airbus might try and interest them in the 343 for the longer charter flights?

Dan  Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 20475
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:12 pm

Case is not closed yet.

Boeing is pushing the 737NG and 7E7. CSA is already a large B737 operator, plus the country is a new NATO member and is anxious to put on a positive face to the US.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10022
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:22 pm

Well, unfortunately it may well come down to politics if both bids are competitive, though as Czech Republic is surrounded by Europe, the Airbus bid may well be favored. Still, good luck to Boeing.
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5455
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:37 pm

plus the country is a new NATO member...

So? It's been for five years and NATO for many reasons seems to be near clinical death.

...and is anxious to put on a positive face to the US.
Why should they? It's just not worth it. Not under this administration.
If politics of that sort is going to play any role, then it will not be for the benefit of Boeing - it might be a payback time for their complete failure in Aero Vodochody. CSA went into joint-venture with Boeing (in order to have Czech subject involved) and Boeing's "performance" in Aero made them look pretty stupid

However, I'd see as rational going for the 737NGs since swap from Boeing to Airbus completely would be more costly than from 737 Classics to NGs. On the other hand Airbuses are more modern and not just refurbished 1960s design.
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:01 pm

The Czech Republic isn't surrounded by Europe. IT's IN Europe. They joined the EU earlier this year.

Secondly, for the 7E7 suggestion....how does that fit in with CSA wanting their aircraft next year? This looks like an A330 deal for longrange but a toss-up between the 737 and A320 families for shorthaul.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5455
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:23 pm

Whitehatter,
they want to replace the 737-400s since these a/c serve destinations that make them most profit. The A310 will be replaced eventually but it's not an urgent priority since CSA's long-haul network is only symbolic (JFK, EWR,YUL/YYZ and COL via DXB). Maybe that's why considerations of the 7E7. I don't think CSA's long-haul network will expand dramatically in the future - although the success of KE's PRG-ICN route show that market potential for flights to SE Asia is there. Oddly enough Colombo has been a tremendous success so the plan to add some flights to Maledives as well.
The reason for getting 4th A310 is that CSA tried (unsuccessfully) to buy Travel Service (I think CSA couldn't stand watching their ugly livery anymore, just like me Confused)

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Joan Martorell
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Stuart Lawson


and CSA wants to get back their share of the charter market, from which they volutarily pulled-out couple years ago.
Travel Service made a big success flying seasonally Fortaleza (via Canary Islands) and Bangkok (via Muscat) with 738 (talk about narrow-body madness). and they were supposed to get a 767 for that this year, but it did not happen.
So I think CSA wants to compete with them by offering more comfortable wide-body a/c.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:40 pm

Um, the 737NG is a much newer aircraft. The wing is newer, and more efficient. It has longer range and has lower operating costs. The only thing that the A32S has is FBW, and not everyone wants or needs that
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
LifelinerOne
Topic Author
Posts: 1501
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:30 pm

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:54 pm

I don't know if CSA is state-owned. When it is, I do see a choice for Airbus obvious. When it doesn't, CSA will just pick the offer which is most competing. Don't forget that they fly a lot of B737's, so they might not want to change their fleet into an A32X-fleet. Their pilots know the Boeings, aswell as the cabin crews and a great part of the maintenance teams.

L410Turbolet,

any info where the 4th A310 is coming from?

Cheers!
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
TW741
Posts: 339
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:04 pm

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:55 pm

Laxintl: .......and is anxious to put on a positive face to the US.

CZ joined the EU by May 1st this year and is going to receive a lot of money from the EU over the next decade - so they might also have to put a positive face to Europe.... Don´t think that Nato or the US pays them millions of Euros each year to get their economy and infrastructure updated and modernized.


It would make sense to continue with Boeing 737s NG due to the existing infrastructure of the airline including maintenance, flightcrew training and so on - on the other hand there have been complete shifts of the fleet with airlines. Still I think they´ll stay with Boeing for the European routes.
Reg the A310´s - good question - on certain routes these aircraft are always at their limit in respect of payload/range. To my mind the 767-300 could be a good choice

@L410turbolet - fully agree with TVS .... by the way - what´s about this new airline "Smart Wings" - there was announcment a few days ago they will fly 1 flight PRG-VIE on Fridays and VIE-PRG return on Sundays, single flight starting at CZK 990/EUR 31 - will they use for such a weird routing a 737? Where is the aircraft going to on Fridays? Where is it coming in on Sundays? Or was this just a typing error in the media?
Also what´s about rumours that Smartwings start to fly to ROM and DUB by Oct? By yearend LON and DXB? Is Smartwings part of TVS? Give me some hints neighbour from the north  Smile

Thanks
=TW741=
TWA - we showed you how good we have been!
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5455
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:22 am

@L410turbolet - fully agree with TVS ....

About what? The livery?  Nuts  Big thumbs up Unlike the SmartWings livery, which I find quite nice,

View Large View Medium

Photo © Yvo Heunen
View Large View Medium

Photo © Paul Spijkers


Travel Service probably contracted the design of their livery to some kindergarten...

Regarding PRG-VIE. I've read it on airways.cz forum and someone suggested that since they will operate the route with 738 Travel Service might have got some long term charters from VIE so they made the positioning flight a SmartWings service. The timing is strange and I can't think of better explanation.. the a/c is not gonna sit in VIE two, that's for sure.

Also what´s about rumours that Smartwings start to fly to ROM and DUB by Oct? Is Smartwings part of TVS?

Smart Wings is 100% owned by Travel Service. So far they use two ex-LH 737-500s (OK-SWY [D-ABIA] and OK-SWZ [D-ABIB]). Rome and Dublin is a go on Oct.1 and I believe they sell tickets already, London, Dubai "before the end of the year" to quote their webpage. London seems too crowded already: CSA, BA, EasyJet, BMI baby, EU jet, Discovery Link... We'll see.

http://www.smartwings.net/

any info where the 4th A310 is coming from?

I don't know. The recent addition, OK-YAC,

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alan Lebeda


was ex-Aircalin - Air Caledonie (F-OHPX)



[Edited 2004-09-13 17:31:17]
 
FinnWings
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:03 am

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:43 am

Um, the 737NG is a much newer aircraft. The wing is newer, and more efficient. It has longer range and has lower operating costs. The only thing that the A32S has is FBW, and not everyone wants or needs that

So the only reason why airlines buy narrowbody Airbuses is the FBW?  Wow! What comes to operating costs, other airline might found Airbuses more economical and some other Boeings. It is all about the needs of individual airline and how they are going to use those aircrafts. I wouldn't be so sure about the more economical wing on B737NG either...

Best Regards,
FinnWings
 
airxliban
Posts: 4288
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:07 am

whatever happened to the good old fashioned buying something because you need it not because you're being pressured into it  Big grin
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5455
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:27 am

any info where the 4th A310 is coming from?

According to planes.cz the 4th A310 will be registered as OK-YAD and it's this particular aircraft:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dennis Lau
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Marcus Jellyman



Regarding the tender for 12 medium-range a/c. There was an interesting story on Czech TV just couple minutes ago. Supposedly Mr. Pickering from Boeing sent a letter to the CSA CEO and Czech minister of finance (CSA is 92% state owned) full of moreless unsubstantiated claims such as that the conditions for the bid are "not transparent" and parameters for the aircraft set in a such manner, which "prevents selection of Boeing". Seems like Boeing really wants to play the politics card, because requests for proposal were sent in April and only now they realize the condition don't suit them?
 
JAGflyer
Posts: 3453
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:31 am

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:29 am

A possible replacement for the A310? Maybe 767s?
Support the beer and soda can industry, your recycle old airplanes!
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5455
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:47 am

Maybe 767s?

The problem with 767s is that the line will be shut down pretty soon. In future let's say 7, 10 years down the road, should CSA choose to expand its widebody fleet, they will have the same problem, which they have with Classic 737s. Not enough decent 2nd hand a/c since most were grabbed by LCCs.
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3218
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:01 am

Another carrier to dump their A310's.....

 Crying  Crying  Crying  Crying

Even if they dont do that, It's something that I live with everyday...knowing my baby is on the way out....


LOL im being dramatic  Big grin
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5025
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:03 am

I surely hope CSA goes for Finkenwerder and Toulouse Big grin

Thats where they buildt the best beautys that flies IMO *simple as that*

Micke  Big thumbs up
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:15 am

I am thinking they could order 7E7s and Boeing Capital could lease them some 763s that are in the desert for the interim. The A330 is probably too heavy to replace the A310 ops. 752s might actually make a good choice, but we know what they did to the that line. I really think that 737NGs are a good choice, no matter what they do with the A310s. Costs, training, etc.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5025
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:23 am

"they could lease some 763 and 752"!

Please, give CSA some credit! Why should they lease 2nd hand 767´s and 752

when they got the stunning A313??

Micke/SE  Insane
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
DeltaMIA
Posts: 1622
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:53 am

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:21 pm

Why does it really matter what they select?
It seems price and financing is the ultimate decision maker in whose product they select and of course the guarantee that they can have the first delivery sometime next year.
No matter what they choose I doubt it will any effect on people flying OK.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
airliner777
Posts: 413
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 6:38 am

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:11 pm

I'm convinced they will opt for the B737NG family, since they have been a long time operator of the B737-400. Now, about long range aircrafts for them, that'll be another story to tell.

My 0.02¢  Big grin
 
flyibaby
Posts: 718
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:23 am

RE: CSA To Order 12 New Planes

Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:46 pm

DeltaMIA,
Your right, however leaving out one huge detail. Delivery date, delivery date, delivery date. This was a primary reason for Independence Air choosing the A319/320 over the 737. Boeing couldn't deliver a 737 until mid-next year whereas AirBus could do so nearly immediately and with very considerate financing terms similiar to what JetBlue recieved.
On a side note, I bought a roundtrip ticket from JFK To Prague nonstop, had my flight cancelled because the plane had been broke for close to a week at the gate in JFK (this was in March) and had to fly to Brussels on DL, then switch to a CSA 737. First, I wasn't impressed with the 737 they fly (even though I am a fan of the plane) and then on the return trip I swear Evil Kenivel was the captain on the A310 and the plane was absolutely not comfortable. That plane sucks. Ugh. I need a nap.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos