N801NW
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Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:48 pm

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2004/09/15/looming_changes_may_spark_gate_war_at_logan/

Discusses gate shifts when Delta moves to terminal A. B6 would like more gates, probably in C. FL would like to be in a better spot period.
 
azjubilee
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:52 pm

Interesting... anybody know if the new DL terminal will have the capability for international arrivals? If it does... I wouldn't be surprised if CO and NW aren't the other occupiers of that facility alongside DL. Perhaps even AF and AZ.


AZJ
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:56 pm

All italised text are excerpts from the web-link article:

AirTran flies out of one gate in Terminal D, a dank space near Delta's baggage claim area. Most of JetBlue's flights are domestic, but its two gates are in Terminal E, the airport's international departures area.

Globe Writer, Keith Reed needs to get out to BOS more often, FL has been operating two of the 3 Terminal D gates (1D1 & 1E1) for almost a year-and-a half now. The remaining gate at D (1C1) is B6's third gate. Prior to B6's arrival to BOS, FL sometimes would use this gate as well.

My last trip to BOS was this past July and the above-mentioned gate assignments at D were still valid. Since B6 came to town, Massport opened a pedestrian corridor linking Terminals D & E to ticketed passengers. Previously, this corridor was restricted to airport and airline employees only.

Specialists who watch the Boston market, though, said AirTran would likely start beefing up its service to Philadelphia if US Airways shuts down. AirTran currently has four daily flights from Logan.

For about a month-and-a-half, FL offered 5 daily r/t PHL-BOS flights for 4 days during the week; 4 daily r/t flights on the remaining 3 days. FL only recently scaled back to just 4 r/t flights a day everyday; was the extra flight only seasonal?

Should US go, FL will be the only carrier offering mainline service from Logan to Philly, unless AA decides to upgrade its Eagle service to mainline; they (AA) didn't at BWI when US dropped its nonstop BOS-BWI service 2 years ago. Can we say dejavu (pardon any spelling error)?

Could DL re-establish PHL-BOS service, a route that they (and/or regional partners) had since the merger w/NE back in '72 but dropped it only a month ago?

Frontier might be the airline that looks best to locate in Boston that's not already there," he said.

Frontier used to fly from Boston to Denver, but pulled out of Logan in 2002. Spokesman Joe Hodas said the airline will get 23 new jets by 2008, but won't make any new service decisions until at least next March.


Is UA presently the only airline that offers non-stop BOS-DEN service? If so, F9's return to BOS would be a very welcome return indeed.




"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
deltairlines
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:11 pm

B6 also serves BOS-DEN...this is a once-daily route though...leaves BOS at 930 getting in at midnight, and then does a quick turn as a redeye back to BOS.

As for other airlines...if Delta is going to have 7 open gates at Terminal E, look for NW and CO to move in with them. NW currently has three gates, which is about all they need. Continental I think has 4 gates currently, so they should be able to use the other 4. Although the article says its going to be commuter gates open, I seriously doubt that, as I'm sure Delta Connection will be using quite a few of those gates themselves.

From what I have heard (from Massport officials), Terminal A will not have FIS capabilities. However, I have heard that all SkyTeam/DL partners will leave from Terminal A (which I tend to doubt, since Massport made all international flights save for AC and US-based carriers leave from Terminal E; part of which is they have a brand new facility that they want used; the other part is that it would be a really long tow from E to A, and right at what is the busiest time of day at BOS.

Jeff
 
azjubilee
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:20 pm

Regarding NWA at the DL terminal... perhaps they will have the AMS flight arrive at E, but then repo the a/c for departure to the new DL concourse. That still doesn't solve the arrival connection problem, but I suspect the AMS flight is mostly O&D anyway. It has been policy that as gate space leases are up, that airline is to consolidate with the partner carriers. YOu see their close proximity is many airports now.


AZJ
 
deltairlines
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:42 pm

If NW moves to A (which I am expecting will happen now), then NW can transfer the aircraft (since it is a US carrier it doesn't need to use E for departures). I could see the AMS getting some additional connecting traffic once DL puts its code on it...connections would be available from BGR, BTV, PWM, MCO, TPA, FLL, PBI, RSW, SLC, YHZ, YFC, LGA, DCA, and quite a few other cities.

Jeff
 
BOSugaDL
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:09 am

I do not know if there would be enough gate space for both DL, CO and NW. There are a total of 25 gates at the new A, 18 Mainline and 7 regional.
Here are the plans... http://www.mmm.ca/projdetail.asp?no=170.

From what I understand DL Shuttle flights DLconnection and SONG will leave from the main terminal...all other mainline will leave from the Satilitte.

This is my estimation...The 7 regional will be taken up by DLconnection and COex(comair flies to DCA, CVG, RDU, BGR, GSO, JFK, PMW, BTV, YHZ, and YFC and COex flies to ALB, HPN, SLK and RUT)...3 gates for DL Shuttle, 4-5 for SONG...so that leave 10-11 gates. Dl mainline then serves ATL, CVG, SLC and DFW which will need maybe 6-8 gates. So that leaves 2-5, were CO could come in easly, at best having 5 gates to themselves, worst sharing 2 gates with DL and having 2 themselves. So I doubt that there will be room for all three. Well thats my thinking anyway...
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:03 am

I don't quite understand why Delta would go forward with its huge (and expensive) terminal WITHOUT providing for international arrivals and departures? When this whole project was conceived, wasn't Delta flying BOS-LGW with its eye on further European expansion? There has to be some good reason why Delta didn't include this capability in the new terminal...surely it can't be a simple oversight? Someone deplaning a grueling westbound transatlantic flight will have to trudge all the way across the airport to catch an onward DL flight? Smart move!
 
BOSugaDL
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:49 am

chrisNH-
I feel the same as you...Terminal A could be a SkyTeam terminal...DL, CO could provide feeder traffic for flights on AF,AZ and AM with all the regional flights. Plus DL could start some European destinations from BOS...I'm thinking maybe MAD, LIS and BRU (Sabena use to run this route) , just thinking. But I couldn't see DL doing BOS-LGW since BA, AA and VS all run to LHR. I also believe that NW will not move from E, but thats just me.
 
deltairlines
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:51 am

When the terminal was announced, it was the intention of DL to be serving LGW, FRA, MXP/FCO (one of the other), DUB/SNN, MAN, and CDG on a daily basis, with 767-300 and 777 equipment. Alas, this was during the good ole days in the 1990s, so many of these are unlikely to come to fruition. The best bets would be a CDG (for a total of 3 daily SkyTeam BOS-CDG flights), a MAN flight (DL might go year-round...), and a possible resumption of LGW. FCO might go seasonal, but I don't see the others coming.

Jeff
 
nwa man
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:16 pm

So I doubt that there will be room for all three. Well thats my thinking anyway...


...in which case, NW would stay in E. CO doesn't have to deal with international flights, while NW does have the AMS flight. And while that may not seem like much, I'd imagine that Northwest would prefer to consolidate staff and airport equipment in one terminal, especially in a relatively small NW station like Logan, instead of dealing with towing and gate space issues.

In addition to the hubs, NW also operates CRJ service to BOS from MKE (and soon, IND). Odds are that they'd keep their current setup at E instead of worrying about gate space for these additional flights, as well as any future point-to-point service that they may have planned for Boston.


Regards,

N-Dub
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727LOVER
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:35 pm

From the article:

Logan has always been a crowded airport where gates -- the places where passengers wait to board their planes and where jets park while passengers board and deplane -- are a valuable commodity.

So that's what a GATE is...... Insane
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A330323X
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:37 pm

"Frontier already operates in Pittsburgh, where US Airways has been pulling back, and could use new gates at Boston to feed connecting flights to the West Coast or cities like St. Louis, Kansas City or Denver, Trippler said."

Yeah, in Kent George's dreams.  Nuts
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jetbluefan1
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:59 am

The remaining gate at D (1C1) is B6's third gate.

Where did you hear that? JetBlue operated E1A, E1B, and uses E1C for the morning LGB departure.

B6 also serves BOS-DEN...this is a once-daily route though...leaves BOS at 930 getting in at midnight, and then does a quick turn as a redeye back to BOS.

Actually, that plane operates BOS-DEN-JFK. There's another plane that operates JFK-DEN-BOS. The BOS is the first redeye, and then the 1am departure from DEN is the JFK departure.

JetBluefan1
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:33 am

...FL has been operating two of the 3 Terminal D gates (1D1 & 1E1) for almost a year-and-a half now. The remaining gate at D (1C1) is B6's third gate. Prior to B6's arrival to BOS, FL sometimes would use this gate as well.

Correction to my earlier post (#2): corrections shown in bold

...FL has been operating two of the 3 Terminal D gates (E1D & E1E) for almost a year-and-a half now. The remaining gate at D (E1C) is B6's third gate. Prior to B6's arrival to BOS, FL sometimes would use this gate as well.

Thanks for the gate correction/clarification, Jetbluefan1. I was never quite sure why Massport didn't just call Gates E1C, E1D, & E1E simply Gates D1, D2, & D3 unless these gate designations predate the terminal letter code designations that have existed since the late '70s.

Anyway, there have been a few times I've seen a B6 Airbus at Gate E1C either in the morning while I was exiting my arriving FL flight and in the afternoon/evening while I am waiting for my return FL flight to PHL. The last time I flew out of BOS (back in March on a Saturday), a Florida-bound B6 flight (not sure if it was going to FLL or MCO) was indeed boarding at Gate E1C shortly before I boarded FL Flight 775 at E1D.


[Edited 2004-09-16 19:40:43]
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4Left
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:45 am

What about NW's DC-9's? What terminal will they use???  Smile
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ScottB
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:46 am

I, for one, am thankful that Delta's international codeshare partners moved out of Terminal C. The passengers on AF's departures to CDG (and in the past SN to BRU or SR to ZRH) simply overwhelmed the inadequate security checkpoint to Delta's concourse in Terminal C. BOS is not a great connecting point in any event, especially given the need to change terminals when returning to the U.S. unless you're on NWA from AMS.

Delta's not going to need any space in Terminal A for flights to DFW since they will end before it opens. If US Airways fails, I would not be surprised to see DL operating BOS-DCA as mainline. I also wouldn't be suprised to see them offer BOS-PIT and/or BOS-CLT unless someone else beats them to it. There probably will be room for either CO or NW in Terminal A, along with DL, but not both. It may be the case, though, that Delta would prefer its codeshare partners to just stay put in order to reduce the number of gates freed up for jetBlue, AirTran, America West, ATA, etc. I imagine that Independence Air and possibly Alaska might prefer to have their own gates instead of subleasing from US Airways.

When the Terminal A redevelopment was originally announced, the intent was indeed to have international codeshare partners departing from there and Delta had planned to add transatlantic service from Boston. I honestly can't recall if FIS facilities were part of that, but Massport documents from 2000 include a new satellite FIS at Terminal B (for American) while omitting any mention of one at the new Terminal A. When construction commenced in 2002, Delta's short-lived BOS-LGW service had ended and there were no public plans for any transatlantic flying from BOS by Delta. One interesting tidbit from the 1999 Massport ESPR is the addition of a "West Concourse" to Terminal E to extend west of where Gates E8A and E8B are. You can also see that the Terminal A Satellite is on top of the airport end of the Ted Williams Tunnel.

In the past, there was an airside passage between Terminals D and E; I suppose it was closed after 9/11/01 but I had wandered through it at some point in 1998 or 1999. I would guess that the three gates in D (1C through 1E) were designated as part of Terminal E to help accommodate NWA's gateway at BOS back in the 1980's.
 
deltairlines
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:02 am

A few new notes:

I wouldn't be shocked if Alaska moved from B to A, now that DL and AS have signed a codeshare agreement. AS wouldn't need its own gate (they could just use a Delta gate), so it wouldn't be much of a burden.

Now, the old if US goes under part...If US goes under, there would be a pretty decent terminal over in B, which will be connected to Terminal A (unlike the old setup). What I could see is Delta maybe taking over the rest of Terminal A (the other 7 gates) to cover for US' operations, with NW and CO moving to the current US mainline pier. That would still leave the Shuttle pier and the Delta Shuttle gates open, as well as a few new gates at Terminal E and a whole pier in Terminal C...

Jeff
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:19 am

So far we have everyone moving to Terminal A!
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PHLBOS
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:34 am

In the past, there was an airside passage between Terminals D and E; I suppose it was closed after 9/11/01 but I had wandered through it at some point in 1998 or 1999. I would guess that the three gates in D (1C through 1E) were designated as part of Terminal E to help accommodate NWA's gateway at BOS back in the 1980's.

It's been reopened since B6 came to town. I walked through it last March.
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BOSugaDL
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:36 am

I used the walkway in the March of 2003. I was on a FL flight to ATL and went to the foodcourt in Terminal E to eat and see the INTL heavies...so it was open at least a year and a half.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Looming Changes May Spark BOS Gate War

Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:18 am

I used the walkway in the March of 2003. I was on a FL flight to ATL and went to the foodcourt in Terminal E to eat and see the INTL heavies...so it was open at least a year and a half.

Thanks for the correction/clarification BOSugaDL,

Most of my visits to Terminal D prior to B6 coming in were strictly for boarding and deboarding FL flights to/from PHL so I never had a chance to fully explore that end of the terminal and the connection to Terminal E. As I stated earlier, I stumbled across the opening while waiting for a FL flight last March.

Terminal D gate update at BOS (from my observations while coming off FL Flight 510 yesterday, Sept. 29). All 3 gates (1C, 1D, & 1E) are now FL gates.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981