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Recent PHL Closure

Thu Mar 02, 2000 2:00 am

Does anybody know why PHL was closed February 24th at around 2000? Last Thursday night, I was aboard UA 1776 from IAD to PHL. If anybody knows UA well, they know about Channel 9 (From the Cockpit). I was listening to this and well after we were transferred to PHL approach control they decided to tell us that the field would be closed for an unknown amount of time due to a VIP arrival. We were given holding instructions, and the hold time got longer and longer. Our crew had to call dispatch to find out what to do since we were loaded light on fuel because of the great weather. We ended up going back to IAD to refuel where they put on "more than enough" fuel. So in United's efforts to save fuel by loading super light, they ended up wasting a lot! Anyway, does anybody know who the VIP was?
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

You're PHL Experience

Thu Mar 02, 2000 4:57 am

VIP movements are almost always The Prez or Veep. The airlines never get specific times as to when they'll be arriving or departing an airport, only the general hour. For example, the movement might be in the 2000z hour, but that could be anytime from 2000z to 2059z. If you UA flight was scheduled in *after* 2100z and the movement was running behind schedule (not an uncommon occurence), yeah, he didn't have the fuel for it. At least The Prez wasn't getting a haircut, like he did at LAX that one time.

All airlines, not just United, plan mimimum fuel loads where safety, legality, and weather allows. If airliners flew around with full tanks all the time (as is the myth) then fares would be much higher to compensate for the waste in hauling fuel around that's not needed. After all, fuel *is* weight, and the heavier the aircraft is, the more fuel it takes to keep the aircraft aloft. Proper planning (that's what I do, among other things) and monitoring of conditios ensures that fuel loads are appropriate to the operational circumstance. That may mean an occasional diversion, but you're not gonna run out of gas. I know Avianca 52 did just that back in 1990 neark JFK, but under the rules applicable to that foreign airline, their dispatcher wasn't monitoring the progress of the flight as was the case with US domestic airlines.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Guest

RE: OPNLGuy

Fri Mar 03, 2000 2:56 am

I understand completely about the factors concerning fuel loads. I am a fueler for United; we work closely with load planning and the flight crews when concerning fuel service forms. The point I made was that with poor planning and not having enough fuel to anticipate this minor glitch, United wasted FUEL, the EXPENSE of fuel, and the TIME of all pax, crew, fueler, and controllers. This was an unnecessary delay. I feel that you got the impression that I was concerned about the safety of the flight. That is not true.
Please don't take my posts so personally, I'm not attacking your profession. It's one I hope to enter soon.

P.S. In your Topic: bar, you say, "You're PHL Experience." The proper phrase would be "Your PHL Experience."
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

Good Career Choice

Fri Mar 03, 2000 4:11 am

JET_A wrote:
-------------------------------
.he point I made was that with poor planning and not having enough fuel to anticipate this minor glitch, United wasted FUEL, the EXPENSE of fuel, and the TIME of all pax, crew, fueler, and controllers. This was an unnecessary delay. I feel that you got the impression that I was concerned about the safety of the flight. That is not true.
--------------------------------

Lot's of non-industry folks on here, and I didn't see you were a fueler from your profile. My point, perhaps missed, was that yes, it was indeed an unecessary delay in retrospect, but was it *preventable*? I don't know. If a VIP movement is running late, we're *not* updated due to security reasons, so it may have been something as basic as AF1 running lreally late. (I hate campaign season).


>>>Please don't take my posts so personally, I'm not attacking your profession. It's one I hope to enter soon.

Didn't take it that way at all. Again, didn't know you were in the industry.. Where will you be going to school for your ADX?

>>>P.S. In your Topic: bar, you say, "You're PHL Experience." The proper phrase would be "Your PHL Experience."

Mea culpa. 56K brain, 300 bps fingers.  
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

Good Career Choice

Fri Mar 03, 2000 4:13 am

JET_A wrote:
-------------------------------
.he point I made was that with poor planning and not having enough fuel to anticipate this minor glitch, United wasted FUEL, the EXPENSE of fuel, and the TIME of all pax, crew, fueler, and controllers. This was an unnecessary delay. I feel that you got the impression that I was concerned about the safety of the flight. That is not true.
--------------------------------

Lot's of non-industry folks on here, and I didn't see you were a fueler from your profile. My point, perhaps missed, was that yes, it was indeed an unecessary delay in retrospect, but was it *preventable*? I don't know. If a VIP movement is running late, we're *not* updated due to security reasons, so it may have been something as basic as AF1 running lreally late. (I hate campaign season).


>>>Please don't take my posts so personally, I'm not attacking your profession. It's one I hope to enter soon.

Didn't take it that way at all. Again, didn't know you were in the industry.. Where will you be going to school for your ADX?

>>>P.S. In your Topic: bar, you say, "You're PHL Experience." The proper phrase would be "Your PHL Experience."

Mea culpa. 56K brain, 300 bps fingers.  
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

Good Career Choice

Fri Mar 03, 2000 4:17 am

Name: OPNLguy
Date: 2000-03-02 20:13:15

JET_A wrote:
-------------------------------
The point I made was that with poor
planning and not having enough fuel to
anticipate this minor glitch, United
wasted FUEL, the EXPENSE of fuel, and
the TIME of all pax, crew, fueler, and
controllers. This was an unnecessary
delay. I feel that you got the
impression that I was concerned about
the safety of the flight. That is not
true.
--------------------------------

Lot's of non-industry folks on here,
and I didn't see you were a fueler from
your profile. My point, perhaps missed,
was that yes, it was indeed an
unecessary delay in retrospect, but was
it *preventable*? I don't know. If a
VIP movement is running late, we're
*not* updated due to security reasons,
so it may have been something as basic
as AF1 running lreally late. (I hate
campaign season).


>>>Please don't take my posts so
personally, I'm not attacking your
profession. It's one I hope to enter
soon.

Didn't take it that way at all. Again,
didn't know you were in the industry..
Where will you be going to school for
your ADX?

>>>P.S. In your Topic: bar, you say,
"You're PHL Experience." The proper
phrase would be "Your PHL Experience."

Mea culpa. 56K brain, 300 bps fingers.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Philly Phlyer
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun May 23, 1999 12:05 pm

PHL Closure - Clinton Was In Town

Fri Mar 03, 2000 7:36 am

At 10pm it would have been the departure. The President was in town for a fund raising dinner.

I flew in from St. Louis earlier on that afternoon and found out that it was just before he arrived.
 
Guest

Philly Flyer, Opnl Guy

Sat Mar 04, 2000 2:50 am

Philly Flyer: Thank you for finding my question and not diverting the topic like OPNLguy and I did.

OPNL guy: My apologies, I probably overreacted to your response. I may have taken your feedback a bit personally myself. No, I am not currently enrolled at a school, but I am researching them. I'd like to get some actual experience in OPS before fully diving in. Right now, I'm planning to shadow some zone controllers and load planners in DEN, then dispatch in ORD. Any insight or helpful facts from you about the profession are truly appreciated!
 
Guest

RE: Recent PHL Closure

Wed Mar 08, 2000 2:05 am

******************************************
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

JET A

Wed Mar 08, 2000 9:03 am

Info forthcoming to your email address...  
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.

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