EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
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Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:06 am

Guys,

I read in September issue of Airliner World that Emirates got the right to fly 14 times a week to Brazil and 5 times a week to Argentina.

Do you think this is a good idea? Is there enough passengers in this route?

Hugs,

EMB195ER

 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:14 am

I can't tell you what sort of numbers/demand exists for such routes, but Emirates is not alone; Aerolíneas Argentinas has been talking about a Dubai service (via Madrid or Athens) for some time now. 3% of Argentina's population is of Arabic descent, and I know Brazil has a sizeable Arabic community too, so maybe it's not such a bad idea to link Buenos Aires and Sao Paolo with Dubai. In my view, 14 x weekly between DXB and GRU sounds a bit much, but I'm not an expert on this. If however such demand exists, then Emirates stands to make a killing. We'll see...

Regards,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
TBCITDG
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:32 am

EK did hold recruitment seminars in Brazil, Argentina and Venezuela some time ago. I am sure that they would not go through all the trouble if they did not see themselves making some money in GRU and EZE.
 
EMB195ER
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:47 am

TBITDG,

Wasn't MEA who hold this recruitment seminars in Brazil??? I got confused now....  Confused

LVXZV, although there is a big Arabic community in Brazil and Argentina most of them don't have contact with their home countries anymore. At least, it was what I read in an article about MEA and TAM flights some time ago...

Hugs,

EMB195ER
 
BA
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:12 pm

LVXZV, although there is a big Arabic community in Brazil and Argentina most of them don't have contact with their home countries anymore. At least, it was what I read in an article about MEA and TAM flights some time ago...

Correct and that is exactly why MEA doesn't want to start up GRU. The entire talk about starting flights between Beirut and Sao Paulo was political during the talks of increasing economic and political ties between Brazil and Lebanon. MEA's CEO Mohammad El-Hout made it very clear that the demand doesn't exist and the little demand that there is is very low-yielding. This is because most of South America's Lebanese population are 3rd and 4th generation. Most don't know Arabic, most know absolutely nothing about Lebanon anymore and very few go back to visit and those that do, do not visit often.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
airxliban
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:13 pm

EMB195ER,

MEA did have talks in regards to serving GRU, but in the end MEA will not be opening up the route as analysis has indicated that it would be unprofitable.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
TBCITDG
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:16 pm

I am sure that it was EK that held the recruitment drive as the one in EZE was held at the Hilton hotel.
 
mika10021
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:26 pm

Emirates has on their destination map Sao Paolo and Buenos Aires as future destinations with the A345.That means they are thinking about it
When did Aerolineas say anything about flying to Athens?
 
behramjee
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:12 pm

EK from GRU and EZE will aim to take a lot of pax to the Middle East-East Africa-India and the Far East particularly to SIN-BKK-KUL-CGK-HKG-PVG.

EK knows there is hardly O&D traffic between Latin America and the Middle East hence it will heavily rely on transit traffic for these flights.

I would expect EK to start off with 3-4 weekly DXB-GRU-EZE-GRU-DXB A 345 flights...btw does EK have 5th freedom rights on the GRU-EZE-GRU route?
 
TBCITDG
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:55 pm

Aside from that, I am sure that (depending on price) some people would be willing to go to Latin America via Dubai instead via AKL from Australia. Sure it will be the long way around, although I am sure many people would be interested.
Let's not forget that EK have the rights to fly from AKL to other destinations, so who knows they may fly via AKL to EZE/ GRU.
Another point is that EK may lure away the Asian market that flies RG,LA,AR,MH,BA to Asian destinations via AKL/SYD/MAD/KUL/LHR and instead offer them great deals, all via Dubai.
 
EMB195ER
Topic Author
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:52 pm

Behramjee,

EK has the right for 14 flights to Brazil and 5 to Argentina, according to Airliner World.

Hugs,

EMB195ER
 
LVZXV
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:43 pm

Mika10021:

In June 2002 AR announced plans to open a second european hub in Athens out of which Cairo, Istanbul Tunis and Vienna would all be served, using an MD-88. As time progressed, Istanbul dropped off that list and Beirut and Dubai were added. And more recently, AR appears to have decided that all prospective Middle Eastern and Mediterranean destinations will be served from the existing hub at Madrid, including Athens.
What concerns me is tha lack of history between AR and the Mediterranean region (not to mention Emirates, MEA and Olympic's lack of history in South America), insofar as it's hardly a zone of interest for most Argentines, and I really see few of those routes returning dividends. Could be that they would purely cater for the needs of parent company Air Plus Comet and Spanish tourists, a theory corroborated by their frequent use of AR's Madrid-based MD-88 for charter flights (Air Plus's fleet is small). And curiously, every time I ask the Marsans management about the progress of negotiations, they tend to uncomfortably dodge the subject, so who knows what is really going on...

Regards,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
TBCITDG
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:39 pm

LV:
I agree with you in most points, although:
EK have now a firm grip on the Australian market(long haul). I for one would be very tempted to fly them between OZ and Argentina (my favorite place on earth). If it meant cheap airfares especially during the Southern summer months why not???. Something LA and AR take full advantage of, since they are the only two carriers between the two continents. Especially now that the serve SYD-Dubai non stop, most Australians would be very tempted!!
 
behramjee
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:20 pm

yes i know EK has 14 and 5 weekly flight rights to Brazil and Argentina ...I just mentioned that it would be wise to START off with 3-4 weekly A 345s routed DXB-GRU-EZE-GRU-DXB and not with daily flights on this route...thats all  Smile
 
emirates777
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:40 pm

Stay tuned for a surprise announcement. Since SFO flights have been pulled from the system, I've heard that effective 1 Jan 2005, Emirates will commence with a daily A345 to Sao Paulo (GRU). Don't know as yet whether this will be extended to Buenos Aires or Rio.

Rgds
Emirates777
 
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:16 pm


These are the rights but i don't think that EK will start a route with two daily flights !!! It would be mad !!!
 
LVZXV
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:18 pm

....TDG:

I wonder if EK could offer an alternative to AR's regular US$1,700 EZE-SYD return fare. I agree with Behramjee, a trial 3/4 x weekly DXB-GRU-EZE-GRU-DXB run would be a very good idea, instead of launching straight into direct services.

Emirates777:

Buenos Aires would make more sense than Rio, I think.

Regards,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
dutchjet
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:40 pm

With EK, anything is possible - their goal seems to be a very large route system connecting all continents via their Dubai hub, EK has a large fleet of long range and ultra long range aircraft with more and more on the way with a view to further expansion. Direct flights between key South American cities and the Gulf may sound risking, but EK can afford the risk and is willing to take it - EK is also, of course, looking at all of the connection possibilities available - on to India, Asia and Australia. Even if some flights would actually be faster via the Pacific, EK can still compete as they will offer one-stop service to these destinations with a connection in user friendly Dubai airport (instead of some very difficult European airports or, even worse for Brazilian citizens especially, visa unfriendly US airports) on very modern aircraft with an airline known for excellent service. South America is also a market where EK will not have to compete for connecting traffic with industry favorites such as SQ or CX which are also known for their good service.

I would not be surprised to see EK open 3 or 4 nonstop flights a week between Buenos Aires and Dubai, a daily nonstop flight between Sao Paolo and Dubai, and possibly 3 or 4 nonstops per week between Rio and Dubai....the Rio and Sao Paolo flights could always be combined if traffic does not meet expectations. Originally, EK mentioned (or suggested on their web site only Rio and BA as future destinations, but I am certain that they would want to tap into the lucrative Sao Paolo business market). Also, dont forget there are many in South America and the Gulf with adequate funds to buy full fare first and business class tickets on EK - this service will certain not be a back-packers express and will not be marketed towards value minded "ethnic travellers" returning home to visit families or the like. These services will appeal to expense account business travellers and higher end tourists - I am sure that many wealthy Gulf residents would not mind a holiday in very beautiful Rio!

This could be a winner for EK.......due to their innovation and financial situtation, they can afford to take risks that other airlines simply cannot take plus they can afford to take time and let a route mature. Look at EK's service to Australia and New Zealand, whoever thought Ek would become a major player in that market?
 
EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:03 am

Dut,

About what you said I just do not agree with the possibility of different flights to São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, and Buenos Aires. I think that for one year or two, at least, they should have just one flight.

One idea: a daily flight to São Paulo extending to Rio de Janeiro some days and to Buenos Aires in other days, like some European airlines do. What do you think?

Hugs,

EMB195ER
 
dutchjet
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:19 am

Hey EMB195ER, of course, your conservative approach is sensible and the one most airlines would take.....however, EK has the money and resources to do things in a rather grand way and I think that they will enter the GIG/GRU/EZE markets in a big way. Time will tell, but EK made a big splash in Austalia/New Zealand, why not Brazil and Argentina?
 
pzurita1
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RE: Emirates Flying To Brazil?

Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:52 am

I am a little bit skeptical about EK flying to South America. One thing is to have obtained rights to fly to a destination and a very different is to actually start using this right. Sometimes airlines get this right to send a signal to other possible competitors: "do not even try to serve this route, because I will do it more rapidly than you".

There is -apparently- little demand between South America and the Gulf. Most South Americans of Arab origin find their roots in Lebanon, Syria or Turkey, but not in Arabia nor in the Gulf States. And they are 3th or 4th generation. Hence, no ethnic traveler here.

EK using DXB as a hub to connect to other places? May be. But for places such as India? Iran? Kenya? Kazakhstan? I guess there is little demand to make any difference to do it via Europe. On the other hand, services to South Korea? China? HKG? BKK? KUL? I guess that would be much more tiring than flying via Australia (LA, AR), KUL (MH) or NRT (RG)

Anyway, I do agree EK is one of the FEW airlines that can venture into this networking. If that is the case, they will use the right for only 3x, not even daily. But it seems to me more a fantasy than something happening in the medium term. However, I believe it more than RG or AR flying to PVG.

PZ

[Edited 2004-09-18 23:56:04]
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