PSU.DTW.SCE
Topic Author
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DL / ACA FRJ Status

Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:53 am

Whats the latest plan with the FRJ's operated by ACA/Indy Air for Delta Connection?

Is there a final determination on their fate once Indy begins flying the Airbus?
It appears that after Nov. 1 they are nowhere to be found in the DL network.
 
FutureFO
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RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:11 am

We at Skyway have taken delivery of 10 birds. And they are all in MKE rite now getting real MX done on them. Rite now we have an unsigned contract with DL for DLC service out of CVG but the service is now not looking like 2005 at the earliest for a start date.


Sean from MCO and CVG
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Topic Author
Posts: 6104
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:14 am

Interesting, I didn't know that the transition was already occuring.

We had an FRJ crap out here in SCE on Thursday. 406 had something go on the #2 engine, and it spent a fair amount of time getting some repair work done here. I think they flew in some mechanics from CVG.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:38 am

The holdup in the transition is because of DL's precarious financial situation.

If DL manages to avoid BK, some of the FRJ's (probably about 20) will once again operate for Delta Connection. The remaining ten will likely be sold to SkyWay to operate in the Midwest Connection program.

However, if DL goes CH11, it's unlikely the FRJ's will ever fly for DL Connection. The FRJ's will get dumped back on Indy (they are responsible for the FRJ's if DL defaults) and Indy will be stuck with planes they don't want. Indy can probably get SkyWay to take some, but the rest would be a big liability for Indy.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think DL really wants the FRJ's in the Delta Connection program. DL has plenty of RJ's to cover the FRJ flying and DL has to pay a premium to get SkyWay to operate them. If DL could, I'm sure they'd love to just sell all of them...unfortunately there's not a big market for the FRJ.

So, DL is stuck with them and will try to keep them going for a few more years. If DL does sign a deal with SkyWay, look for it to be relatively short term (about 3 years). After 3 years, the planes will have depreciated enough that DL could just write them off (or try to sell more of them to SkyWay).

Don't get me wrong, the FRJ is a nice plane from a passenger perspective. IMO, they are vastly more comfortable than the CRJ/ERJ. But the comfort factor, doesn't make up for the FRJ's bad economics.

 
kcrwflyer
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RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:36 pm

as far as the frj market, and the way they fly,( not speed fast but more so vertically fast). markets that they are serving must be doing pretty well. CRW-CVG on the 4 daily FRJ's is doing great. about a 40 minute flight, fully loaded all the time. ied say profitable. I dont know where else they fly.. I saw one takeoff from PHL as i was in line for departure.. i hope it wawsnt going to CVG- i dont think they can fly that far.
 
toltommy
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RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:50 pm

I've noticed they are gone for the CVG-TOL schedule in the spring. Not a bad plane, but the economics of the new CVG fare structure combined with the higher cost per ASM means the plane is probably doomed.
 
flyibaby
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RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:20 pm

Kcrwflyer,
The plane can definately do a PHL-CVG hop; Skyway used to operate one from RDU-MKE full daily.

FlyPNS1,
Your anaylsis is mostly correct with exception to Independence being responsible for the FRJ's if DL defaults. The reason behind this is because as part of the DL Connection agreement, as long as ACA did not violate any of the stated rules of the agreement and DL ended the contract prior to schedule, then DL would assume all A/C and their payments. This is why Independence had to wait to assume delivery of the A319 and cannot put into service prior to November 1, so as not to violate the scope clause of the contract. All in All, as of November 1, these FRJ's will become wholly DL's problem.
 
toltommy
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RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:57 pm

FlyI -

What happens to the crews for those planes? Are they getting absorbed into Indy Air? Does ACA have a crew base at CVG to cover that flying? What happens to the base?
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:06 pm

All in All, as of November 1, these FRJ's will become wholly DL's problem.

Correct. However, if DL declares CH 11 before Nov 1, the FRJ's can be dumped back on Indy.

 
PHLBOS
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RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:24 am

We at Skyway have taken delivery of 10 birds. And they are all in MKE rite now getting real MX done on them. Rite now we have an unsigned contract with DL for DLC service out of CVG but the service is now not looking like 2005 at the earliest for a start date.

That being the case, I guess it's safe to assume that the FRJ I see in Midwest (Connection?) colors parked at PHL's Terminal E on Saturday evenings are not any of the former ACA/DL Connection FRJs. Correct?
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
FutureFO
Posts: 2811
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RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:29 am

Correct. The Skyway bird at PHL is a Skyway bird. We will not put the ACA birds into service rite now until Mar 2005. After all the MX work that needs to be done on them to bring them up to standards.


Sean from MCO and CVG
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
nwa747-400
Posts: 1325
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RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:57 am

Furture FO: You make it sound as though the FRJs you have taken from ACA were not maintained properly.
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2557
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RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:14 am

I think FlyPNS1 and others have it right.

I think this obligation will be the first to go in BK. I'm convinced a Ch.11 filing will happen by the end of the month, we have heard ZERO on the pilot situation...
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
xjramper
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RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:31 am

HA!!!

MX seemed to be the word out on the ramp today for both of our cincy flights. We had a broken tail nav light on one and a busted apu on the other. It was a fun morning.


XJR
Look ma' no hands!
 
FutureFO
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RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:08 am

The info from our MX dept is that they want to get the FRJ's up to standards. The ACA MX dept is ok but when it comes to using a fine tooth comb with a lookover, then Skyway tops them. It is just that Skyway has a higher MX standard than ACA.


Sean from MCO and CVG
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
masonaries
Posts: 91
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RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:44 pm

Supposed to fly a FRJ from LAN to CVG this Thursday. Are they still using this type on this route? I've flown on one before and I really like them.

Bondo
 
FutureFO
Posts: 2811
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:58 pm

RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:53 pm

You shousld still be on a FRJ for your trip. ACA still has 20 left in their fleet.


Sean from MCO and CVG
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
airtran737
Posts: 3221
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RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:51 pm

Hey FutureFO,
I just drove across the ramp by the Skyway hangar, and there isnt a single ACA 328 there.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
FutureFO
Posts: 2811
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:58 pm

RE: DL / ACA FRJ Status

Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:33 am

They are floating not neccessarily at MKE.


Sean from MCO and CVG
I Don't know where I am anymore