NWDC10
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NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:50 pm

I do expect NW to be US launch customer for the 7E7. I think NW will go for the 7E7-3 to "add" to their 757-300's. All the Airbus A330-200/300 will be delivered that they have on order now but they will add the 7E7-8 to to their A330-200/300's. As for engine choice, i'd be supprised if they ordered the GE engine. So i believe they will order and use the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000. As soon as they start flying the 7E7's, this will be a major advantage over all the other competitors. I don't see them ordering the Airbus A380. They are more conservative than that. I'm thrilled to see what really happens. Robert NWDC10
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:55 pm

Yes, I do believe that NW will purchase the 7E7, and most likely will be the launch customer for it. I would be surprised if the ordered the Trent 1000, given the fact that GE engines reliability speaks for itself. I too, shre your opinion that we won't be ordering the A380. Too much aircraft for our markets. The 747-400 can handle it just fine, as well as adapt the aircraft with fluctuating loads seasonally. My opinion, the A380 will no where near live up to it's expectations, range-wise.
Made from jets!
 
NWDC10
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:08 pm

The A380 would be non sence. Smaller airliners can add frequency on the "A380 routes" thus it would be hard to fill the A380. The 747'400 is perfect for NW. Maybe the GE engine will be better than the Trent 1000. The Trent 1000 is a very good product though. This is really exciting Jetjack74. See what happens. "Be Strong-Fly High Northwest" Robert NWDC10
 
Carpethead
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:34 pm

This is interesting news.
NW getting 330s & 7E7 means, assuming they can obtain B-runway slots at NRT, they have flexibility over size of aircraft used on transpac and intra-Asia routes. They could land the 330s & 7E7s on the B-runway and increase flying with 744s to DTW & MSP if needed. I am sure they will pick-up some PW powered 744s from somewhere in the world in the next few years.

Also with the 7E7, NW can overfly the NRT hub and fly direct to places like PVG, HKG, BKK, etc from DTW. Maybe long, thin-routes such as MEM-NRT could be in the works.

I never thought NW would be interested in the 7E7 after the purchase of the 330s. I also don't think NW will be ordering the A380 anytime soon, if ever.
 
NWDC10
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:43 pm

DTW-HKG would be an excellent route, non-stop of course for the 7E7-8 for NW. Or do they have this non-stop route already? Robert NWDC10
 
keesje
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:13 pm

As soon as they start flying the 7E7's, this will be a major advantage over all the other competitors. I don't see them ordering the Airbus A380. They are more conservative than that.

 Big grin
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:49 pm

I thought that they were getting the 7E7 to replace the DC-9s  Nuts
 
NYC777
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:18 pm

All I heard is that they're studying the 7E7 launch order but is there a time frame when we'll hear something concrete from NW (and KLM)? Anyone out there in the know who can shed a little bit more light?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
NWDC10
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 2:32 am

Possibly hear news in 2005 i expect. Robert NWDC10
 
NWDC10
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 2:38 am

Also, just imagine what routes can be created by NW when they get the 7E7-8. They can do DTW-HGK non-stop. It will create many thin but necessary markets. Robert NWDC10
 
NWAskyteam
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:06 am

Gentlemen-
This is all clearly speculation. NW has looked into every aircraft in recent years as possible replacements for aging DC10s and 747-200s. The fact that they are looking at a joint purchase with KL means nothing. They have done this numerous times when looking at the 777 and 767-400 among others. I believe the company is satisfied with the -400 and new 330s. The 7E7 would be replacing what? Neither of these long haul aircraft are near retirement stage in NW's eyes and I don't believe they want to add yet another fleet type in the age of fleet standardization. Obviously the A380 has no place at NW given the type of routes flown. NW likes the hub and spoke operation in NRT and lives and dies by it. Point to point flying from US to Asia has been tried before and failed....SEA-HKG and SEA-KIX notably. The Asia market seems to have built-in instability that makes NW very nervous about committing to a new fleet type that really only would be practical on a few routes, MEM-NRT and DTW-HKG. Just my 2 cents.
 
NWDC10
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:16 am

I don't see the 7E7 as a "replacement" but an "addition" to the 757-300's and A330-200/300's. Robert NWDC10
 
NWAskyteam
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:22 am

If they are an addition, where would they fly to? The 757-300s are perfect for high density domestic routes and west coast-HNL. The 7E7 would be too much airplane for those low yield markets. I don't see many markets in Asia where they would make sense on routes that NW would be willing to fly, with the exception of MEM-NRT and DTW-HKG like we stated before. Are there enough long thin routes that NW has considered to justify an order? How big a fleet would make sense economically to add yet another fleet type? I would think the numbers would have to be in the teens at least. I am speculating too. Watch NW order them tomorrow and make me eat my words.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
NWDC10
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:32 am

No one has to "eat" their words. When uyour right your right. When your wrong your wrong. The 7E7 can start opening up thin markets then when time goes on, add frequency to those markets. Robert NWDC10
 
gigneil
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:32 am

I would be surprised if the ordered the Trent 1000, given the fact that GE engines reliability speaks for itself.

It does indeed... and many of the major airlines of the world bank on it every single day in and out.

Sure, people have had problems in the past. The GE90 got off to a rocky start. But your statement was a hasty generalization.

The Trent 1000 is a very good product though.

What? Its a nonexistent product that hasn't even finished design yet.

N
 
whitehatter
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:37 am

Northwest is already a GE customer, the DC-10s are CF6 powered and the A320 fleet has the CFM56. So that would presumably be their engine of choice.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
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scbriml
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:57 am

I don't understand how people can make pronouncements about the reliability of the competing engines for the 7E7 when neither of them has even been built yet.  Insane

BTW, P&W is working with GE on the GENX engine, so that might bring the reliability angle down a bit!  Innocent
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
panam330
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:58 am

Could they use the 7E7 to possibly fly a route to a continent/ region they currently don't fly to, such as the middle east (TLV)? Also, what about non-stops from DTW to India? I know there is a bilateral in place, and they already fly to India via AMS, but possibly they could make it non-stop? I think that NW could absolutely steal the market going non-stop and being one of the few, if not the only, airline(s) in the next 5-8 years to fly non-stop to DEL or BOM!
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:01 am

Its more the speculation NWASkyTeam  Big grin I would expect an order announcement by the end of November.
 
acidradio
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:03 am

Northwest is already a GE customer, the DC-10s are CF6 powered and the A320 fleet has the CFM56. So that would presumably be their engine of choice.

Watch them hold out for a PW  Big grin
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NWDC10
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:17 am

Everyone knows they love P&W the best. But are they in any 7E7 engine project? Robert NWDC10
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:29 am

As stated above, PW is working with GE on the engine.  Big grin
 
NYC777
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:30 am

7E7 buyers wll only have a choice between GE's GENX and Roll's Trent 1000. P&W was not selected by Boeing to produce an engine for the 7E7. I don't know if they're going to be involved in GE's engine effort or not.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
bobnwa
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:30 am

NWA is looking at the 7E7 like they look at every new and available aircraft on the market. No more no less for the 7E7. It wouldn't be very prudent if they didn't.

NWA, should they decide to order the 7E7, it will be because they have done an exhaustive study and decided the aircraft meets their needs.

Suggest we lower the heat on this one a bit. Burnside28 already has the order in place for November!!
 
NWDC10
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:37 am

As the other post: When will NW "retire" their DC-9's? When will NW "order" the 7E7? Robert NWDC10
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:39 am

Suggest we lower the heat on this one a bit. Burnside28 already has the order in place for November!!

Because their are things that I know that you dont  Big grin
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:40 am

Suggest we lower the heat on this one a bit. Burnside28 already has the order in place for November!!

Because there are things that I know that you dont  Big grin
 
NWDC10
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:45 am

I'm laughing now. Lets take out the "Magic 8 Ball" and see how many 7E7's NW orders. It reads 15. Just kidding. LOL Robert NWDC10
 
NYC777
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:41 am

Because there are things that I know that you dont

Well it sounds like you alrady know NW intentions to order the 7E7 in Nov. is that what you're saying. How many are they going to order?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
NWDC10
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:43 am

NW still has the DC-10 which will eventually be retired. Minus the DC-10 but add a 7E7 still has the same number in a "mixed" fleet. Robert NWDC10
 
frugalqxnwa
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:18 am

Burnsie28,

Would you care to elaborate a little? This is the second thread I have seen you wink and grin when questioned about your source.

All:

A 7E7 order is entirely possible, especially if fuel prices keep going up. Fuel efficiency may well become more important that labor costs in the future if things keep going as they are (Neil Cavuto had a guy on today claiming there will be $150 a barrel oil in six years, based on the last six years '98-'04).
 
NWDC10
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:43 am

If it is true at $150/barrel of oil, say good bye to the airline industry or say hello to major government subsidies. Robert NWDC10
 
NWAskyteam
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:55 am

An NW order certainly is not pending as the launch date is nearly four years away. It is not like they have to wait in a very long line to order. Why commit to an order so far in the future when things are so incredibly uncertain. NW still has A340 mock-ups in MSP from that order that never materialized. I think they learned a lesson there.
 
kim777fan
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:01 am

Not bad. This time we got through 5 posts related to NWA before the term "DC9" was uttered. Big grin

That would be SAH-WEET to see the 7E7's in NW livery landing/taking off at DTW!! Maybe Boeing can work out a package deal with NWA to see them some 717's to replace some of those afforementioned DC9!!  Big thumbs up

Sure hope NWDC10 and jetjack74 are right about a possible 7E7 purchase. There's just something that's RIGHT about American planes landing and taking off in a town so keen about "buying American."
 
BillElliott9
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:19 am

Burnsie28

This is truly meant as sincere advice: I admire your enthusiasm and passion for NW but this is the second time in a couple of days I have seen you imply you know something....You are setting yourself up to be flamed big time.

Right or wrong you are at huge "credibility disadvantage" due to your age -- Sorry but perception is reality in this world. You are way out on a limb predicting a month when the order will occur. Do you have a source other than the pilot rumor mill?

I have been a a fan of NW since the Nyrop years (my Aunt worked for them for over 40 years -- from DC-3s to 757s) and I hope Burnsie28's prediction is right. I think it is quite possible NW may order the 7e7. Seems like it would be a good addition to the fleet. Of course that is just my opinion, I could be wrong!

BillElliott9
You can fight without ever winning but never really win without a fight.
 
raggi
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:40 am

Is PW really working with GE on the GENX?
They are certainly cooperating on the GP7000 for the A380, but I've never read about that being the case with the GENX for the 7E7.


raggi
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AGrayson514
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:04 am

As far as new destinations, what about direct to MNL, TPE, HKG, SIN, India (not sure where?) and maybe we might see them moving into South America. Also, if I am not much mistaken they had talked about flying to Baghdad, so they have probably been considering expansion to the Middle East. I also expect, no matter what aircraft they end up utilizing, to see more flights from non hub airports, such as BOS, maybe TPA, and PRT. The 7E7 would allow NW to expand their already long list of international destinations.

ilâ l-liqâ'

~ Andrew Grayson
Give a little bit...
 
Carpethead
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:14 am

There are more than a couple of routes, NW can use to Asia on 7E7.
DTW-PVG, HKG, PEK, CAN, ICN, BKK, SIN, & MNL all not-stop is not out of the realm. Not to mention flying from the MSP hub to HKG, PVG, PEK, KIX, & NGO, plus NRT-MEM, DTW-DEL, BOM in India. That's a lot of routes that could see service by 7E7 ten years ahead, which would require twenty or so 7E7s.
We will see...

 
AA787
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:06 am

Does anyone know the number of frames we can expect to be ordered?

AA787
ET In NYC
 
nwa330tony
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:08 am

As much as i love airbus and the A330 in particular i would have to say having the 7E7 side by side with the A332 for the pacific fleet could open alot of new horizons. I diffenatly hope NW makes it happen!
 
brons2
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:25 am

This is interesting news.

This is not news, these are rumors started by teenage armchair CEO's.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
Rj111
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:30 am

This thread is total mental masturbation. NW are simply looking at the 7e7 like any other half-intellegent airline and suddenly we are charting up which series/engine type/quantity/first delivery date/configuration/no of lavatories they are going to choose.  Insane

This reminds me of the few months proir to the huge SQ 7e7 purchase just recently. Many threads of speculation and rumors from people within SQ and then finally, the thread to say SQ had ordered the 7e7.




..........Ohh wait that didnt happen.  Nuts
 
brons2
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:36 am

This thread is total mental masturbation.

Truer words were never spoken.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
ILSApproach
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:24 am

Brons2...................you hit it on the head! Thank you!


 Smokin cool....................and that's not a cigarette!


Mike @ MSP
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:39 am

I really think that with Delta possibly going under and US too, Northwest wants to really get involved on European routes. Being that Delta and Northwest are Skyteam partners now and Delta really struggling, Delta might sell Northwest some of their European slots that none of the other US Airlines serve. Doesn't Delta have the most European destinations of the Big 6?

I could see Northwest doing DTW-WAW, DTW-Prague etc with the 7E7. The A330 is way too big for these routes, but isnt the smallest version of the 7E7 about the size of a 767-200 or 300?

I know Northwest would love to start flying DTW-SEL again, prior to the Asian financial crisis in the late 90s that was a successful route and it was done with a 744. Northwest could easily bring it back using a 7E7, then if the demand got bigger they could put the 744 back on it. Northwest would probably like to possibly either set up a small Trans Pacific hub in Portland or SEA and fly 7E7s to various Asian cities or do them out of DTW. I could see several Asian destinations served once again with the 7E7. What ever happened to DTW-PEK? I thought that was a successful route. I remember it ending in early 2002.
 
njoizflyin
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:24 pm

I have no emotional stake in the engines/seats/lavs/ or orders from this airline or that about a plane that is not in service yet. Until I happen to see one while driving on a road by YYZ, I personally am not concerned. Same for the A380, until I see one in the air with a livery on it and its got people on board, I don't care.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:52 pm

What ever happened to DTW-PEK?

It was suspended by the close of 2001. Loads were dropping off significantly after 9/11. PVG was soon cancelled as well. We are supposed to be restarting DTW-PVG, and it's supposed to be announced sometime soon. Delta, and Continental are already planning to start service to PEK, or PVG or both. AA is planning on starting n/s service from ORD-PEK in May of next year.
Made from jets!
 
Thrust
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:17 pm

Now that I think about it, wouldn't it make more sense that NW might order Airbus' answer to the 7E7?
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
NWDC10
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:24 pm

What if the 7E7 doesn't come up to 20% in fuel saving expectations? It sounds like another MD-11 then. Airlines will be upset. Then why waste time with Boeing when expectations don't come to pass and the "fuel savings" really "doesn't matter that much" to make any difference. Then would NW look to Airbus instead? Robert NWDC10
 
NWDC10
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RE: NW 7E7 Purchases/Deliveries?

Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:26 pm

I just wanted to add. "Just because a jet is a little more fuel efficient, DOESN'T mean that it will be purchased" Robert NWDC10

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