TedStriker
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 7:40 am

LCC Overbookings; US & Europe

Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:25 am

I saw "Airport USA" last night for the first time (for UK members ITV2 is showing it). I was surprised to see on it that Southwest overbook their flights. Is this common for US lcc's?

Please correct me if I am wrong (and I'm sure you will!) but the likes of Ryanair & Easyjet do not overbook their flights here in Europe. I always thought thatEasyjet etc based their business model on Southwest.
 
FA4B6
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RE: LCC Overbookings; US & Europe

Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:37 am

JetBlue doesnt overbook flights, ever. I dont think Independance Air does either.
"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
rjpieces
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RE: LCC Overbookings; US & Europe

Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:20 am

As FA4B6 said, JetBlue does not overbook their flight and yet maintain their high load factor. I've always appreciated that when flying B6 although I'm sure they could make some extra money if they overbooked.......But it probably just isn't worth the hassle and angering customers over it.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
ltbewr
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RE: LCC Overbookings; US & Europe

Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:48 am

ALL airlines overbook. If they didn't they wouldn't be able to fill up the a/c to the levels they need to make a profit. Southwest in the US does some severe overbooking on some routes due to high rates of no-shows as depicted in the program you saw (which I believe is on our A&E cable/satallite network as Airline). Sometimes, the computers' fudge it up too, allowing excessive overbooking. The level of overbooking would depend on the date, time of year, if equipment, flight times or flight frequency changes, if mainly a business or casual/tourist route and other factors. Some airlines may allow lower numbers of overbookings due to developed history, marketing decisions, and with LLC's perhaps lower rates of no-shows and that cannot shift pax to other airlines. In Europe, there may be national and EC regulations on overbooking that we don't have in the USA. Also, LCC's there may have lower rates of no-shows, therefore must limit the rates of overbookings.
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
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RE: LCC Overbookings; US & Europe

Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:59 am


Independence Air and Jet Blue both will not overbook for any reason.

I was standing by on an America West flight a while back 757 BOS-LAS and it was booked to 216 out of 190 seats. I got on the plane as 27 people did not show up. LAS flights are notorious for no shows!
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
globetrekker
Posts: 800
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RE: LCC Overbookings; US & Europe

Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:20 am

The worst I ever had was a KLM 747 between Aruba and AMS. I was working the flight that day and I nearly had an heart attack when I opened the DCS and saw that the flight was overbooked by 240 pax.
That was a day to remember. Thanks to other airlines such as Aeropostal, DL and CO we got pax rerouted through IAH, EWR, JFK and CCS. They weren't happy campers, I can tell you.

GlobeTrekker
The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
 
Ikarus
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RE: LCC Overbookings; US & Europe

Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:47 am

European Low Cost carriers do not generally overbook. They do keep the money and the taxes for no-shows, though.

However, now that they allow changes to bookings, they might also change their policy on overbooking (pure speculation on my behalf).

I believe there was talk about an EU regulation that would compensate any passenger denied boarding due to overbooking quite heavily. Not sure what became of that.

Regards

Ikarus
 
FA4B6
Posts: 1078
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RE: LCC Overbookings; US & Europe

Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:03 am

ALL airlines overbook. If they didn't they wouldn't be able to fill up the a/c to the levels they need to make a profit. Southwest in the US does some severe overbooking on some routes due to high rates of no-shows as depicted in the program you saw (which I believe is on our A&E cable/satallite network as Airline). Sometimes, the computers' fudge it up too, allowing excessive overbooking. The level of overbooking would depend on the date, time of year, if equipment, flight times or flight frequency changes, if mainly a business or casual/tourist route and other factors. Some airlines may allow lower numbers of overbookings due to developed history, marketing decisions, and with LLC's perhaps lower rates of no-shows and that cannot shift pax to other airlines. In Europe, there may be national and EC regulations on overbooking that we don't have in the USA. Also, LCC's there may have lower rates of no-shows, therefore must limit the rates of overbookings.

Actually, no, JetBlue does not overbook flights, ever. We have 156 seats, we sell 156 seats. There are only two situations that would allow for pax to be removed (and hence would create an "overbooking-like situation"):

1. If a wheelchair pax insists on stowing their wheelchair on board the a/c and makes that decision after booking their travel (this must be done in Row 26 D-E-F and therefore if the flight is full, 3 pax need to be removed from the flight), then three pax must be removed from the flight. That's why on every B6 flight, 26 D-E-F are blocked and can only be assigned at the airport. But sometimes, things happen last minute as we all know.

2. If Federal Air Marshals all of a sudden show up last minute to a flight that they are not scheduled on, they have the right to work that flight and if the flight is booked then 2 pax must be removed.

Other then that, jetBlue has never and will never overbook a flight. Ever.

Anyone know what Independence's policy is?

"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
ltbewr
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RE: LCC Overbookings; US & Europe

Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:39 am

I am glad to see JetBlue doesn't intentionally overbook. As I noted in my post, some LCC's may have a lower no-show rate than other airlines, including LCC's and as a marketing policy for their customers, not overbooking prevents a lot of problems for LCC's since they just can't transfer pax to other airline's flights. This is probably true for JetBlue and is an unusual policy. It probably expains their excellent reputation in such a short time.
 
ramerinianair
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RE: LCC Overbookings; US & Europe

Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:25 am

IndyAir will not over book flights . . . More like they can't overbook flights!!!
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
FA4B6
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RE: LCC Overbookings; US & Europe

Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:13 am

IndyAir will not over book flights . . . More like they can't overbook flights!!!

tsk tsk! At least they don't practice this policy.

In theory it seems like a good idea, but in practice it creates a lot of angry people (me having been one of them twice). Its disruptive and should be practiced minimally.
"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
eugdog
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2001 11:32 pm

RE: LCC Overbookings; US & Europe

Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:38 am

Overbooking is more like to take place with legacy travellers with high yield business travellers. If they can get extra bookings from high yield travellers and ask for volunteers to take a different flight then have maximized revenue. The people who choose or are compelled to take different flights will be put on flights were there will be extra capacity so there is no loss in revenue on that flight
 
burnsie28
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Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: LCC Overbookings; US & Europe

Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:52 am

I dont think Independance Air does either.

Haha, they dont have to because they cant even fill up half of their planes.
 
ORD777
Posts: 252
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RE: LCC Overbookings; US & Europe

Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:17 am

I'm not saying that I agree with the practice of overbooking, but I do understand why airlines do it. Depending on the airline, they can gain 15 additional passengers system wide for every individual that must be rebooked due to overbooking. The revenue from these 15 additional individuals far exceeds the cost of rebooking and providing vouchers to the bumped customer. Airlines will admit that overbooking can tarnish thier reputation in the eyes' of customers, but it's really just a matter of numbers. I applaud those airlines that value their customers time over their money.
 
moose1226
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:54 am

RE: LCC Overbookings; US & Europe

Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:13 am

Burnsie28,

What did you expect after three and a half months? Every flight full? Keep dreaming and give them some time.
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: LCC Overbookings; US & Europe

Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:36 am

>>>Also, LCC's there may have lower rates of no-shows, therefore must limit the rates of overbookings.

European no frills airlines have very high no-show rates, because people book 19 EUR tickets half a year before flying. In the end, if their plans change, it´s just cheap enough to say "oh, to hell with them couple of bucks..."

Take me as an example, I was a no-show just once, CGN-CDG-CDG which had cost me 28.50 EUR including all taxes.

Daniel Smile
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5035
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: LCC Overbookings; US & Europe

Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:31 am

Burnsie28,

What did you expect after three and a half months? Every flight full? Keep dreaming and give them some time.


No but not a SYSTEMWIDE load factor of what 47% in the strongest month of the year. Did jetBlue have that low, NO, Spirits, NO, and both of those fly planes with 100+ seats.