aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:36 am

I have been told by two good sources that when Fidal Castro kicks the bucket, HAV will blow up as the next huge tourist island. The beaches are as amazing as any in the Caribbean I've seen. What carriers are likely to push to get into HAV in the future? U.S carriers? UA? Anyone fly there now from U.S.?

Regards,
AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18261
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:41 am

Because of the trade embargo, no US airline can provide scheduled service from the US to Cuba.

Some charter flights are allowed, to take those people who are allowed by the State Department to visit the island.

The island is (possibly) the most beautiful, next to Jamaica, of all the Caribbean islands.

Everyone is expecting tourism to Cuba to boom when the government changes (when Castro dies/leaves/goes), but there may be some hiccups along the way.

The first thing that may happen is that all the Cuban exiles in Miami will go hurtling back to claim land or property that they say used to belong to them. It could get ugly for a while.

But yes, at some point, things will settle down and the island will have bulk tourism from the US. Just about every US carrier will be waiting in line to get rights to fly there.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:55 am

Hey

i flew there in 2002 on Delta from JFK and buesniess there was booming. But now that Bush has band most flights from the US but maybe if Kerry wins the election things will change.
No Vueling No Party
 
jfkaua
Posts: 972
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:42 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:01 am

I don't know maybe its just me.. but do you really think people are going to rush there... When I think cuba I immediatly think of bad things and I don't know It just has some negative aura around it... maybe It just needs a name change  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18261
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:05 am

Maybe this will put things in perspective. As I said, there are no scheduled flights from the US, but there are charters:

http://www.frommers.com/destinations/cuba/3173030011.html

And here's one about Americans visiting Cuba - legally and illegally:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/getaways/012298/cbar22.html

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5042
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:06 am

Hey

i flew there in 2002 on Delta from JFK and buesniess there was booming. But now that Bush has band most flights from the US but maybe if Kerry wins the election things will change.



That embargo has been in place long before even Bush Senior was in office.

Also, i dont think DL has flown JFK-HAV unless it was a charter flight.
 
trickijedi
Posts: 3201
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 4:35 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:23 am

Great articles Mariner, thanks! Big thumbs up
Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than be in the air wishing you were on the ground. Fly safe!
 
Corpsnerd09
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:05 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:28 am

They have charter flights that are allowed for only certain people... these include:

Former exiled Cuban Citizens visiting family, news reporters, aide workers, government officials, and people on official company business (such as a head of CO visiting the airline officials there).

Normally, people who are not on this list and want to go to Cuba from the US use a third party nation. They simply buy a ticket to Nassau, then in Nassau buy a Bahamasair ticket to Havana... same when coming back. You can't buy tickets to Cuba from the US, even if you're connecting, you must buy the ticket in the interveening nation. Other options are Mexico, Canada, or Jamaica.

I know that's how Cubans here send money and presents to family in cuba, the courier companies send them through mexico or the bahamas.

Charters are allowed, but they must be approved. The government approved ones we have now are for the people on the above list.
 
bruno
Posts: 829
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2000 2:01 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:30 am

Tourism is booming already without Americans.
I support the women’s movement up and down!
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:38 am

Hey

in 2002 delta did indeed fly from JFK-HVN with a Delta Shuttle B738.
But that has now since ceased. Cuba is a beautiful counrty and i can see why people would want to go. There is no danger there.
No Vueling No Party
 
csavel
Posts: 1270
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:49 am

Supposedly, the restriction isn't in going to Cuba, but in spending money to do so or spending money while there. That is why even going from a third country is problematical and illegal. But if you are an American, and say your rich Canadian in-laws invite you down for a winter holiday and they pay for *everything*, there isn't jack that the US gov can do about it. One would advise those trying this to have proof of who paid.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:55 am

Taca also have flights from major U.S. cities through SAL to Havana, almost every day.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 7:01 am









photos from HVN and JFK
No Vueling No Party
 
mia
Posts: 813
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:40 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 7:09 am

Well, first of all Im getting really ticked off with these politically motivated statements. Cuba is a tourism powerhouse, with or without Fidel.

Firstly, U.S. carriers are on the Jose Martí 2. Jose Martí 2 is crappy and is dedicated only to flights from America. There are charter flights from New York City, Miami, and Los Angeles. Most of those are from Miami on Continental, American Eagle, and Falcon Air.

Jose Martí 3 is an incredibly planned airport with an awesome design. It is served by most major airlines with charter or scheduled operations.

Americans can go 'without' detection by flying to Panama City and purchasing the 20 dollar entry permit at the airport.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
GLA MD11
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 7:20 am

I went there a few years ago, flying there with late AOM from Paris ORY. At that time, I have seen IB 742 and AF 744 who had regular summer service.
With the embargo, I guess no US company will fly there for a while. The first one to go there will probably be AA from MIA, considering the cuban community in Florida.
Cuba is a great place. The beaches are amazing, the women gorgeous, salsa is danced everywhere every night. It is an awesome place, believe me. Too bad they are emprisoned in a pointless political system. Just my 2c.
 
Aviationman
Posts: 619
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 5:05 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 7:25 am

You guys.....Stop calling it HVN.......No it's HAV!
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18261
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 7:44 am

Mia:

It isn't quite that simple. Yes, Americans can get to Cuba, but there may be problems coming back - see the second article I linked in rely #4.

Plus, Americans cannot use a US based credit card in Cuba, so all hotel accomodation, etc., has to be paid for, in advance, with a travel agent in a third country.

I agree with you that Cuba is doing very well with tourism from non-US companies. But when the embargo is lifted I think he growth in tourism will be exponential.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
SHUPirate1
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:53 am

Keep in mind that the following airlines already have (obviously dormant) route authorities to fly between the US and Cuba:

DL: HAV-IAH/LAX/MSY/SFO/SJU
CO (inherited from Eastern): HAV-FLL/PBI
UA: CMW-BOS/BWI/DFW/EWR/IAH/JFK/LAX/MIA/MSY/PHL/SFO/SJU/STT/STX/IAD and HAV-BOS/BWI/DFW/EWR/EYW/IAH/JFK/LAX/MIA/MSY/PHL/SFO/SJU/STT/STX/IAD

Needless to say, when it comes to airlines starting service to Cuba when the embargo is lifted, look to these airlines first...
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
lnglive1011yyz
Posts: 1502
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:23 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:03 pm

Just do what most smart americans do.

Come to Canada, and fly from here.. There's gotta be at least 1 or 2 flights a day to Cuba (I don't have any particular knowledge, I just hear friends and family going all the time).
**By the way, I *DO* know it is illegal to travel to Cuba if you're an American, EVEN through other countries. But if you ask any airline employee here in YYZ, half of the people on board the flights to Cuba are filled with Americans.**
I particularly don't like Cuba. I much prefer Cancun, Mexico.

Cuba will change when Castro dies.. IF he doesn't pass the reigns to someone like him before hand.

1011yyz.
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
Corpsnerd09
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:05 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:33 pm

I know plenty of people who have gone to Cuba. Living in Miami, there are so many cubans here that you see it daily. Of course, Cuban born immigrants and their children can go to Cuba, but I know many American born friends who have Cuban Boyfriends/Girlfriends/Spouses who have gone to Cuba, all have done it through a 3rd country.

Heck, everyone I know who has has gone through Jamaica. Air Jamaica apparently has a really good fare policy for Americans headed through cuba... and it makes more sense... I also know a few people who have flown through Nassau... but none were friends, just acquaitances and stories I've heard of.
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:34 am

I would be willing to bet money that when Castro dies, his government dies, and the US will lift trade embargos to increase it's trade powers with Cuba. I would expect a few major carriers to pick up flights into HAV via ATL or MIA.

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
XXXX10
Posts: 702
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2000 7:10 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sun Sep 26, 2004 6:28 am

Does anyone know what the us authorities would do if they catch their citizens going to Cuba, is it just a fine and a warning or is it more serious?
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17117
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sun Sep 26, 2004 6:32 am

I would be willing to bet money that when Castro dies, his government dies, and the US will lift trade embargos to increase it's trade powers with Cuba.


No kidding. The situation will have certain similarities to when Tito died, but we'll probably be spared the factional fighting.

"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
maiznblu_757
Posts: 4952
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:05 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sun Sep 26, 2004 6:35 am

A few days before Christmas 2002 I was down at SDM near the border. You can see aircraft depart Tijuana. I saw an IL-62 departing, so I put the binocs on it, and it was Cubana. I am sure there were many Americans on that flight.
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:10 am

AlitaliaMD11

Can you reload the pictures.

Unfortunately got nothing.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
navega
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 1999 10:58 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:25 am

Most of my friends have gone there on Mexicana via
Mexico City and they say that it is absoutely a beautiful
island.

Vibrant and crawling with European turista and European
investments.

Go, have a ball.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3019
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:33 am

Normally, people who are not on this list and want to go to Cuba from the US use a third party nation. They simply buy a ticket to Nassau, then in Nassau buy a Bahamasair ticket to Havana... same when coming back. You can't buy tickets to Cuba from the US, even if you're connecting, you must buy the ticket in the interveening nation. Other options are Mexico, Canada, or Jamaica.

Maybe this explains why LAN flies MIA-CUN-HAV-SCL a couple of times a week.

BTW, if the embargoes are lifted, how would Cubana De Aviacion be able to expand fast enough to handle all of the increased demand?
 
MontanaFL
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:01 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:07 pm

There is plenty of non-American investment in Cuba. But explain why none of that investment is going to help the people of the island? I have several Cuban friends and was curious of the money pouring into the island from Canadian and European countries. Castro and his family/cronies are very very wealthy, but yet the regular people on the island live in poverty. People scream and yell that it is the US fault. Sorry, the Cuban government's fault. Before Hurricane Ivan hit, Castro said he would not allow assistance from the US. One day he will be gone and we, the US, will pour money into the island.

As to flights from the US. I will predict this, there will be a non-stop flight from TPA-HAV if not daily then 3-4 days a week. We have a large Cuban population here. I would say, after Miami-Dade area, Tampa Bay area is #2 in Cuban population
I miss those DL L-1011's
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18261
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:17 pm

XXXX10:

"Is it just a fine?"

Well, yes - but it is a hefty one.

The US government can impose a fine of up to US $50,000 on private citizens who travel to Cuba without authority.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
peteinmiami
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:09 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:40 pm

Sorry MontanaFL, but the largest concentration of population of Cuban origin in the US after Miami are in the New Jersey State just outside NY and in Los Angeles California. That is why there are direct charter flights from those areas to Cuba as we speak and none from the Tampa area, although Tampa has one of the oldest, not in age but in time since established Cuban communities in the US. Regarding Starlionblue comments I agree in part, I think after Castro it will be a period of chaos, let's called adjustment , I will compare it to the one lived by the Czechs , but nothing like in the former Jugoslavia, there is not ethnic differences in Cuba, Cuban are one strong ethnic group from the western tip of the island all the way to the eastern tip, we all speak the same languages, with very small regional variations, so in general we Cuban are one nation, even for us living outside Cuba, just one country, with or without Fidel. Cuban domestic market is going to be big too after Fidel is over, there is 11 million of people in Cuba right now, more than 2 million in Havana, the second city in Cuba, Santiago is on the opposite side of the country, more than 12 hours away by car, so expect a lot of traffic between those two cities also to and from Camaguey and Holguin. I picture Havana as the main international hub for obvious reasons and Santiago becoming a Caribbean oriented hub with a lot of domestic traffic too
 
ual747den
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:29 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:58 pm

I also agree that as soon as Castro is gone travel to Cuba will be huge. It will not be right away, it will be after Cuba asks America for help and we send in troops and billions of dollars just like we do with every country. Cuba will transform into a place like CUN, PVR, San Juan and the rest of em!
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sun Sep 26, 2004 4:54 pm

HAV will be bigger than SXM NAN etc
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sun Sep 26, 2004 7:11 pm

I think Raol Castro will take over when Fidel dies...
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Sun Sep 26, 2004 9:14 pm

TACAA320

they should be working now, they are workin on my comp.

If they dont work it is a photo of:

DL 738 in HAV
JL 744 and World DC-10 at JFK
AOM Air Lib DC-10s in HAV.
No Vueling No Party
 
MontanaFL
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:01 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:55 am

PETEINMIAMI - Thanks for that info. I never thought of the NJ/NY area and Cuban population. Los Angeles?

Alessandro - have heard the same, but with the chaos, maybe the people will make that decision. You never know.

I miss those DL L-1011's
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:28 am

Someone said with all the trade agreements the U.S. isn't suppose to have direct flights into HAV...is that true? Would you have to go say...IAH-MEX-HAV on say CO? Is that doable?

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18261
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:36 am

Aa777jr:

No. Read reply #1.

It wouldn't matter if the flight was through a third country - no US airline is allowed to fly scheduled service between the US and Cuba.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:43 am

So what carriers fly into HAV on a regular basis from say ATL or MIA. It's close enough and definitely gorgeous enough to visit,,,looking for a cheap island getaway. What sort of harrassment can I expect on return to US if I went to HAV?

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18261
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:56 am

As777jr:

Um - see reply #28.

I don't think they have ever actually imposed such a big fine, but see the second link in reply #4 for problems coming back.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:01 am

Wow...I don't know if I wanna risk going then with all those things that could happen. The last thing I want to happen is for me to try and come back to US via MIA and have a Customs Agent ask me what that little stamp on page 16 of my passport is...

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
miguel0881
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:08 pm

I flew MIA-HAV on Falcon Air in 2000 (I had a State Dept. license, obviously). Only a 35 minute flight. Although the Cubans don't stamp your passport unless you ask, I had them do it as I was leaving (I'm American) since I was there legally. I have passed through US Immigration at least 10 times since then and noone has ever asked about it. Once immigration officer at JFK actually stamped right next to it, and didn't ask about it! I don't know if it's in his computer that I was there legally or that he just didn't care that much...
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:49 pm

Miguel0881,

I wouldn't wanna take that risk, since I wouldn't have approval from the State Dept, unless I made something up.

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:28 pm

Peteinmiami, Cuba has no ethnic differences? That is far fetched. Cuba has a large Afro-Cuban population, as well as White, and people of mixed decent. As well as pockets of chinese, and many other minorities. While most live in harmony, I can highlly doubt that there is no differences. And "Cuban" is not one strong ethnic group, but many strong ethnic groups making a Cuban.

UA747DEN, While I understand what you are trying to say about Cancun. San Juan is far from a Cancun. San Juan, does not have the crazy spring break crowd like Cancun. Cancun is more of a budget destination. compared to San Juan. The dollar goes further in Mexico, then in Puerto Rico. If you want a more local feel to Mexico, you don't go to Cancun. Same with Puerto Rico, you leave the city to explore the real country.
"The low fares airline."
 
peteinmiami
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:09 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:52 pm

Those are race differences but we are all Cubans, we all speak the same languages, we all have the same history, different backgrounds, different races, but all Cubans. An Afro-Cuban or a Chinesse-Cuban is as Cuban as a white one, not like the example Starlionblue posted regarding the former European Republic of Jugoslavie, were depending of the region there are huge ethnic differences as regarding nationality not depending on the race.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:57 pm

Peteinmiami, I agree that it is not like Starlionblue said. Cuba has a much more different history then the former.
"The low fares airline."
 
peteinmiami
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:09 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:37 am

Aa767400, I am glad we are both talking in the same frequency now!!!
Regards,

Pete
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:04 am

In regards to the trade embargo, what if I go down to HAV in the next 5 yrs...what are the odds I won't be able to come home with some cigars?

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Havana Cuba, What U Can Expect...

Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:06 am

Sorry AlitaliaMD11, I tried three different computers and see nothing (reply 12).
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein