NIKV69
Topic Author
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Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:02 am

This is a follow up to my original post about taking this pic on my return flight from DEN to LGA on UAL.


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Nicholas A Vollaro





After I snapped that one and some other pics I was asked by the purser for my ID. Which she took and brought back.

My question is am I on some sort of list? Whether Government or otherwise?

Not that I care if I am looked into or whatever but I am curious..
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
JAXpax
Posts: 463
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:06 am

Well... taking a picture in flight of the cockpit door through a cabin where you aren't seated on a 757 on a longer range domestic flight near the 9/11 anniversary....

Who in their right rational mind could POSSIBLY think something even the slightest bit suspcious about that?
 
BIGBlack
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:19 am

What the hell is a picture going to tell a terrorist? Is it going to help them map a path to the cockpit?

I can see the terrorists now studying the photograph.

"hummm let's see, the cock put is straight ahead. Okay, now we got it. Head for the front of the plane."
Someone special in the air
 
wgw2707
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:00 am

You do have to agree though, taking a pic of the cockpit door just prior to 9/11 is rather suspicious-you're lucky the purser didn't have you arrested...

I certainly would have been suspicious, and I am very pro-photographer. The whole situation though surrounding the photo you took though I'd describe as "strange", strange enough to bother me if I was a flight attendant and hopefully strange enough to bother any competent airline worker. Not that this should be taken in offense, as your motives were clearly harmless, but a check was needed to verify that in these unusual circumstances.

Good to see that the UAL flight attendants are keeping a watchful eye out in terms of security.

-WGW2707
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:15 am

Good to see that the UAL flight attendants are keeping a watchful eye out in terms of security.

Good to see the PATRIOT act doing it's job  Yeah sure
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:31 am

Over-panic.

Just like everything else.

Pretty soon, you won't be ABLE to take pictures of or near an airplane.

Give it time.

1011yyz.
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:48 am

Usually, if you ask the flight attendant before the flight (or during) if you can take some pics, they'll say yes. They just like to know to avoid suspicion. So, next time, just ask when you get on the plane. If they say no, oh well. It's not like there's a lack of UA cabin photos on a.net.  Big grin
 
jhooper
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:58 pm

You do have to agree though, taking a pic of the cockpit door just prior to 9/11 is rather suspicious-you're lucky the purser didn't have you arrested...

Arrested for what? Was a crime committed here?
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
sdkualeb
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:03 pm

Was a crime committed here

A crime of stupidy, there people lost coworkers, friends, and work every day with this in the back of there mind. They have every right to have concern. Weather you approve it or not.
 
bwc1976
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:36 pm

Looks to me like the picture was taken using flash, which I would not recommend if you don't want to get people's attention. Use a faster film and available light and you'll have a better chance of not being noticed in the future.
 
4Left
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:42 pm

Hey, I applaud the FC for asking questions. I was on an international US Airways flight and a pax rushed to the front of the plane and bounced off the cockpit door, surprising the hell out of the FA who was enjoying a break in the galley. Before you could say "huh" the FA had spun the pax around and had him face first against the lav door. He was politely asking if he could "assist" the pax. Turned out the pax had Montezuma's two-step and the aft lav was occupied. The pax was allowed to use the loo. Good thing too, would been a drag to sit in First Class with a dirty diaper stink...

Planes aren't busses, put service back into the air!
 
planespotterx
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:16 pm

You cant do anything nowadays without some "goody-goody" person thinking their a hero and making a scene just because you do something you love.
Its not the fall that kills u, its the sudden stop at the end..
 
aeronuts
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:38 pm

Read the original post, she took the ID and gave it back, there were no harassment involved, or a FA trying to be "goody-goody". Matter of fact, if I was sitting next to the person, I would wonder also. Taking photo of the cockpit door these days are just asking for trouble.

BIGBlack, yes, terrorist can study the construction of the door, where the reincofcements, etc... ever heard of the word "reconnaissance". Never discount or underestimate your enemy.

 
JAXpax
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:53 pm

yes, terrorist can study the construction of the door, where the reincofcements, etc... ever heard of the word "reconnaissance"

I'd wonder: This person is taking a photo of the cockpit door and is caught. What else have they been taking a picture of?

I just see the replies: "Well, I'd just show them the images on my digital camera that I took."
So easy to swap out the memory cards on digital cameras.....
 
aeronuts
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:56 pm

And the answer from the FA, "can you please delete the photo"
 
JAXpax
Posts: 463
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:03 am

And the answer from the FA, "can you please delete the photo"

And then the passenger's answer: "Sure." and just ignore the other photo card or other photos in the camera.
 
voodoo
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 1:02 am

 Smile
This topic reminds me: where can you get those lens attachments... I think I saw them advertised in magazines somewhere, that let you photo at 90 degrees to where people think you are aiming your camera?
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
sfo777
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:23 am

I think it depends on the crew- I recently flew UAL from FRA-SFO and there were lots of folks taking pictures, especially when we flew over some great iceberg fields around Greenland and then over the Bay Area as we landed. No one had a problem with this, including the crew.
 
TakeOff
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:36 am

Bravo to the UA flight attendant. Better safe than sorry.
 
JAXpax
Posts: 463
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:37 am

I think it depends on the crew- I recently flew UAL from FRA-SFO and there were lots of folks taking pictures, especially when we flew over some great iceberg fields around Greenland and then over the Bay Area as we landed. No one had a problem with this, including the crew.

Just about any airline lets you take pictures out the window, or of events on board like a birthday, honeymoon, anniversary, etc. Most people on airliners.net aren't doing this. They're trying to take pictures of galleys, aisles, cockpit doors, cabin doors, etc. There is certainly a difference. I've read in at least American's operations manual where personal event photos are allowed, but taking photos of AA equipment, personnel, or procedures is prohibited.
 
aeronuts
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:54 am

JAXpax, thanks for proving my point, taking photos of equipment is prohibited, and not very smart thing to do since 9/11. And if the person is taking pictures of the equipments (i.e doors) and wanted to hide them, it is prudent for the FA to be suspicious.

It nice to see cabin view, and layout of a particular airline configurations, but it's not a god given right to take photos of doors and exit way. Sometime, all you have to do is ask. Worst can happen is "no", and move on with life...
 
jhooper
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:29 am

A crime of stupidy, there people lost coworkers, friends, and work every day with this in the back of there mind. They have every right to have concern. Weather you approve it or not.

Unfortunately, you can't arrest someone for being stupid unless an actual law was broken.


JAXpax, thanks for proving my point, taking photos of equipment is prohibited, and not very smart thing to do since 9/11. And if the person is taking pictures of the equipments (i.e doors) and wanted to hide them, it is prudent for the FA to be suspicious.

It nice to see cabin view, and layout of a particular airline configurations, but it's not a god given right to take photos of doors and exit way. Sometime, all you have to do is ask. Worst can happen is "no", and move on with life...


If taking photos of airplane cabins, so they get leaked to the internet and possibly to terrorists, is such a dangerous thing to do, then why would an F/A's permission suddenly make it OK?
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
aeronuts
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:47 am

Never said it was OK.. comment was just ask.
 
trickijedi
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 6:19 am

I have had two similar incidents happen to me. First was on a UA flight from SFO-ORD... FA asked for my info which I gladly gave.. nothing ever came about thereafter.

Second incident while spotting outside O'Hare... was stopped by security and once again asked for my info and again gladly gave it to them along with answering a bunch of questions about what I was doing there that night. Nothin came about thereafter as well.

I'm not sure where exactly they store or what they do with this info. I'm guessing that if you come up suspiscious on another (perhapes unrelated) charge, the authorities can use the previously given info to come up with some kind of history or pattern.
Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than be in the air wishing you were on the ground. Fly safe!
 
JAXpax
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 6:33 am


If taking photos of airplane cabins, so they get leaked to the internet and possibly to terrorists, is such a dangerous thing to do, then why would an F/A's permission suddenly make it OK?


Permission by the flight attendant so they know what is being photographed is better than somebody sneaking about in a dark cabin attempting to take a quick photo without anybody looking.

I venture to say that on some carriers by allowing such photos, the flight attendants themselves are violating policies, but that is their problem and not the passenger's.

Asking permission removes the suspicion on the photographer and causes less of a scene/trouble.
 
jcs17
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:20 am

I've read in at least American's operations manual where personal event photos are allowed, but taking photos of AA equipment, personnel, or procedures is prohibited.

It actually the latest issue of AA's safety cards say that photography on board is prohibited.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
NceBoy
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:44 am

JAX Pax

The real question is which terrorist is gonna hijack an UAL B757 near the 9/11 anniversary...  Confused

NIKV9

Yes, you might be on a list, be this is for your own benefit, so much terrorist are flying around the united states right now, taking risk of being identified at the airport, and just for taking picture of the cockpit door...

Maybe the next plane you'll be on will be diverted to some remote place... Are you a rock singer in your spare hours ???? Big grin
coz I'm leaving on a jetplane !
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:56 am

Second incident while spotting outside O'Hare... was stopped by security and once again asked for my info and again gladly gave it to them along with answering a bunch of questions about what I was doing there that night. Nothin came about thereafter as well.

This happened to me, except the big-shot "cop" forced me to give him my film and threatened arrest if I came back. Of course, I knew he had no right to arrest me as I wasn't on airport property and I wasn't committing a crime (no sign, no crime), but I just said ok and left. DOA can be jerks sometimes...
 
Guest

RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 9:03 am

Thanks for the laugh Skibum!  Laugh out loud

B
 
jhooper
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 9:50 am

Asking permission removes the suspicion on the photographer and causes less of a scene/trouble.

Maybe so, maybe it does remove the fear. But it doesn't do anything to mitigate whatever dangers to national security may or may not exist from aviation photography.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
NIKV69
Topic Author
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:30 am

Thanks for all the feedback! The UA FA treated me so well! Are there any experts out there? I won't be put on that same list as Cat Stevens will I??  Innocent
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
hz747300
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:26 pm

You cant do anything nowadays without some "goody-goody" person thinking their a hero and making a scene just because you do something you love.

I know what you mean. When I travel, I like to scream out loud and rush the flight deck, and invariably some Chuck Norris wannabe shoves me to the ground and steps on the back of my neck, while the other passengers kick the crap out of me.

All I can say, NIKV69, is that it's a wild world, and it is hard to get by with just a smile...
Keep on truckin'...
 
sdkualeb
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Sun Sep 26, 2004 6:35 pm

Unfortunately, you can't arrest someone for being stupid unless an actual law was broken.

Jhooper

Please tell me you are kidding.
 
jhooper
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:37 am

Please tell me you are kidding.


Really, if you arrested everyone for being stupid, almost all of us would be in jail!  Big grin In this country, you can't be arrested unless a peace officer has probable cause to believe a crime has been committed.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
yvrtoyyz
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:37 am

What I don't understand is why the FA's are asking for ID, name, etc. when they have all that info. readily available to them with their pax list. They've got all the info. on you they need available on a list, so why bother going through the 'intimidation-motions' of asking for ID, etc.

Thank you George for bringing George Orwells' "Big-Brother" to reality.
 
NIKV69
Topic Author
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:50 am

I asked myself the same question. Who knows. I don't mind. I have nothing to hide. I just like taking pictures of airplanes. I just hope they don't treat me like Cat Stevens!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:29 am

According to the airlines, the cabin crews MUST write report what they saw in the cabin. I saw cabin crews writing their reports in the gallery about what happened in their situations. It's a yellow or red paper that looks like "a warning of the pax".
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
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flybynight
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RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:44 am

Arrested would be totally overboard. Like someone mentioned, you can't be arrested for not committing a crime! Speaking of which, can the purses even arrest you?
Just take a look at all the pictures right here at Airliners.net from the cockpit. Talk about hypocritical standards.

Heia Norge!
 
NIKV69
Topic Author
Posts: 10910
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Am I On A List? IN Flight Pics Part II

Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:52 am

I know! I try to get a flight deck pic either in flight or before departure and I get nowhere! How do those pax do it? There are some awesome flight deck pics on this database
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!

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