ussherd
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CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:51 pm

Local news announced this morning that CO is planning to start flights between Newark and Belfast, Ireland's second largest city. Final details are still being worked out, but rumor has it that CO will make a formal annoncement within the next few weeks. The airline will aim to operate a daily 757 on the route, starting from next spring. However, one of the concerns has been whether the market would sustain a non-stop flight every day right through the slackest period of mid-winter. If the route were to start, CO would benefit from development aid via the Government's Air Route Development Fund.

CO currently operates a daily flight to DUB, which is two hours (by road) to the south of Belfast. In September 2001, Aer Lingus dropped the Belfast/Shannon leg of its New York service from Belfast International Airport.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3695516.stm
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/business/story.jsp?story=566638

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as739x
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:55 pm

I'm starting to think every nook and cranny in Europe that can handle a 757 is CO's watch list. Thats why they are my second favorite airline!

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
COSPN
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:45 pm

Anyone know more about the Route Development Fund ??

SOunds Interesting...SO Glad CO is Locked out of LHR there are many places to fly in the UK/Ireland to EWR
 
TWFirst
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:48 pm

>>Local news announced this morning that CO is planning to start flights between Newark and Belfast, Ireland's second largest city.<<


Belfast isn't in Ireland... it's in the UK.

 Big grin
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
N863DA
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:24 am

Thank You, TWFirst, for getting there first  Smile, but Belfast isn't in Ireland (Eire) - it's in Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK.

By the same token, comparing Belfast to the distance from DUB is moot, since they're in different countries with some of the tightest border control, anywhere.

It would be more appropriate, perhaps, to compare Belfast with its nearest mainland competitor, probably Manchester.

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boeingbus
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:36 am

Does CO have enough ETOPS/International enabled 757-200 to support all these flights? I dont think so.. unless they pull them from other destinations and replace those with 767...
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
ussherd
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:45 am

Belfast isn't in Ireland... it's in the UK

Perhaps I should have said "Belfast is the second largest city on the island of Ireland."

By the same token, comparing Belfast to the distance from DUB is moot, since they're in different countries with some of the tightest border control, anywhere

Border control between N. Ireland and the Republic of Ireland is non-existent. Many people living in and around Belfast (myself included) prefer to drive down to Dublin rather than flying Belfast-London-Wherever. The company I work for (a N. Ireland based firm) has an agreement with EI for all of our trans-Atlantic travel (mostly DUB-JFK), but would consider switching to CO if they started flying out of Belfast.

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KLMyank
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:46 am

What border control? Go to LHR terminal one, Eire departs from the domestic side....
 
masseybrown
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:34 am

Cospn, here is a briefing paper on the Route Development Fund for Northern Ireland. There is also a similar fund for Scotland, which underwrote the startup of CO's Edinburgh route.

http://www.nics.gov.uk/press/eti/030904b-eti.htm

The summary seems to indicate that the routes are to be European, but that is not a strict limit.
 
sw733
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:57 am

This does not surprise me at all. Actually, I'm surprised it didn't come before, say, Bristol. I really hope this happens for Belfast, after years of being "feared" by many Americans, they are definitely becoming a touristy spot, and I'd love to get there some time soon. Perhaps next summer! Good luck Northern Ireland!
 
masseybrown
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:43 am

Regarding the availability of aircraft, I believe all 41 of CO's 757-200s are ETOPS. So far CO has said that only 11 of the 41 will receive winglets - but that number could grow easily.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:51 am

I believe all 41 of CO's 757-200s are ETOPS.

Correct.
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ramerinianair
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:02 am

Are the 41 ETOPS certified 752s the international configed ones?
Thanks,
SR
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ramerinianair
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:04 am

Stupid question!!!
I know there are only 41 752s in COs fleet!
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
matthewroy
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:09 am

I would love to see this happen. CO is my second favorite airline, too.

I have to put in my opinion on "border control" as well. If you're in a car, there is absolutely nothing to stop for when you go from the Republic of Ireland into Northern Ireland (U.K.) or vice versa. The main road between Dublin and Belfast doesn't even have a sign that tells you when you've crossed the border. The only way to tell is that the pavement color changes slightly and the prices for gas (petrol) are listed in pounds or euros.
Non pilus tam tenuis ut secari non possit
 
Cory6188
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:46 am

Are the 41 ETOPS certified 752s the international configed ones?

I believe that 16 of CO's 752s are internationally configured, although that can be quickly and easily changed by taking out the domestic F seats and replacing them with J seats. I believe it only takes a few days to do the swap. CO has more than enough 737s to cover for any 752s that would be leaving the domestic market.
 
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STT757
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:36 am

As mentioned in a previous thread, there are reliable rumors that CO is launching 6 new trans-Atlantic destinations in '05.

Bristol is confirmed, and Belfast and Lagos are in the pre-announcment stages.

That leaves 3 more..
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
A340Spotter
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:05 am

As for the amount of 757s that are ETOPS qualified, all 41 are.
However, there are 2 or 3 (can't remember the current status) that aren't certified for European operations at this time.

Jeffrey
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
Cory6188
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:09 am

That leaves 3 more..

I think CALMSP mentioned just 6 new international destinations, not necessarily Transatlantic ones. I believe he mentioned that Huatalaco, Mexico was one of the new destinations.

Come on, CALMSP. You're holding out on us. I'm sure you know something about CO's next new international destinations.
 
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STT757
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:09 am

" think CALMSP mentioned just 6 new international destinations"

I did not get my information from CALMSP, 6 new trans- Atlantic destinations. Not Mexico.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Ant72LBA
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:21 am

I've asked this before but didn't get much of a response: how does CO go about choosing its routes; do the airports go begging to it, handing out route development grants, etc. Or do CO approach an airport, or group of airports, and see who offers them the best deal? How does this fit with competition rules? I bet NCL and LBA would love CO to start EWR services and I'm sure could produce the required loads but do they miss out because of some grants that Northern Ireland can produce that Northern England can't?
 
flylondon
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:57 am

By the same token, comparing Belfast to the distance from DUB is moot, since they're in different countries with some of the tightest border control, anywhere.


Hmmm you might want to look up the Common Travel Area Arrangement which has been in place since the 50s, way before Schengen, which will gove you information about the free movement of British and Irish citizens between and around the two islands.
 
COEWR2587
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:12 am

Is thier a demand big enough for maybe a 762?
Newark Airport...My Home Away From Home
 
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STT757
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:19 am

"Is thier a demand big enough for maybe a 762?"

In CO's international configuration their 757s and 767-200s have almost the same number of seats, so using a 767-200 would not be an increase in capacity overall.

However it is a big increase in the number of Business First seats, which are geared more for business routes like Geneva.


So the 757 is the right aircraft for a route like EWR-Belfast.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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iahcsr
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:48 pm

CO's BisFirst 752 is 16/156, 762 is 25/149. 172 vs 174 seats.
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masseybrown
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:55 am

I wonder if these CO flights to secondary UK markets are pulling a noticable number of passengers out of LHR or if market growth makes them insignificant. Presumably, most of the pax used to transfer there or at LGW.
 
FLVILLA
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:18 am

WOW so much expansion on CO's international services!

Hope they come back to Stansted as there is no US service for the majority of East Anglia.

Will they have the same set up as Dublin immigration wise?? As I know the US does not recognise NI as part of the UK, if your are born in NI you can apply for the green card lottery even though it is not Ireland(Eire)

FLVILLA
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BFS
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:26 am

It's a pity for CO that its BFS they shall have to fly to, given that it pretty much only handles LCCs and charters nowadays - although it does that very well! I know they have a lot of codeshares with flybe who only fly to BHD - would there be any consideration of a road link between the two to provide connections from elsewhere in the UK (not that I can imagine anyone wanting to change planes in Belfast). As for competing with UK airports, thats the most ridiculous thing I have heard. It will compete with Dublin where MANY northerners fly from for cheaper fares, myself included. Saying its competing with MAN is like saying LHR competes with CDG - ok they handle connections but it's all about where people are going to drive from!
 
ussherd
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:50 pm

Will they have the same set up as Dublin immigration wise?? As I know the US does not recognize NI as part of the UK, if your are born in NI you can apply for the green card lottery even though it is not Ireland (Eire)

I wouldn't think so, given that there is no customs/immigration pre-clearance at any of the other UK airports, never mind the fact that BFS probably wouldn't have the space for dedicated US customs/immigration area.

I seriously doubt that the US doesn't recognize N Ireland as part of the UK. The green card lottery thing is probably due to the fact that anyone born on the island of Ireland may acquire an Irish passport. A significant proportion of the population of N Ireland carry Irish passports rather than UK passports.



[Edited 2004-09-30 14:51:28]
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Falcon84
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:15 pm

WOW so much expansion on CO's international services!

That's just the tip, from the rumors going around CLE. Rumors of 4 new cities in Germany and to Delhi keep surfacing. Still hearing rumors about possible '06 start-up of CLE to either AMS, CDG, or FRA.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
7LBAC111
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:28 am

As I know the US does not recognise NI as part of the UK, if your are born in NI you can apply for the green card lottery even though it is not Ireland(Eire)

What cr*p! Northern Ireland is part of the UK. No question of anything to the contrary. British passports clearly state the following on the front cover:

THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND

However as USSHERD says, we as persons born on the island of Ireland can hold whats known as dual nationality. However very few do.
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
MarBergi
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:00 pm

From RTE.ie
http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/1007/northtransport.html

Belfast to New York flights to start next May

07 October 2004 09:40
Direct flights between Belfast and New York are to begin in May next year.

The service, between Belfast International Airport and Newark Airport, will be operated by the US-based Continental Airlines.

It will be the first non-stop scheduled service to operate from the North to the United States.

Sorry for not having any more details.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:04 pm

Great Britain comprises England, Scotland and Wales - but not Northern Ireland. Accordingly, the official title is the 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.' Northern Irish people have the choice of whether to have a British or Irish passport and thus be a citizen of either, but the majority of people seem to prefer to be deemed British.
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geoffm
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:24 pm

"I've asked this before but didn't get much of a response: how does CO go about choosing its routes"

In the case of Bristol, the management at Bristol flew to the States and produced a feasibility study for CO and (apparently) AA. BRS may well have been on their "hit list" anyway, maybe BRS's forwardness helped.

Geoff M.
 
David_itl
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:25 am


It will be the first non-stop scheduled service to operate from the North to the United States.

I'm sure American Trans Air ran a JFK-BFS-Riga service in the 1990s using 757s.

David
 
vatry
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RE: CO Rumored To Start Flights To Belfast

Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:09 pm

They did indeed, though technically I think these flights fell under the heading of summer charters.