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chrisnh
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AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:02 am

Yesterday's announcement that AA is calling back FAs at certain stations--including Boston--prompts me to ask whether the carrier will field new nonstops out of Boston to Europe in '05? Or is this ramp-up for Caribbean service? Maybe the Manchester-Boston 757 experiment went well enough for them to try new experiments next year? Ireland would be good, inasmuch as Aer Lingus has had Dublin/Shannon to themselves for decades.

Chris in NH
 
aa777jr
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:09 am

That'd be awesome to get a few more flights out of BOS. Where is AA flying to Europe from BOS?

AA777jr
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airbazar
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:04 am

I believe AA flies from BOS to LHR, CDG, and MAN.
 
N1120A
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:16 am

I would think AA routes from BOS to DUB (and with it SNN) and FCO/MXP would do well, considering the large Irish and Italian populations and reletively low capacity right now. It would not be a bad idea to pull a CO and do 757s to SNN and bigger gauge to DUB
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by738
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:59 am

BOS-GLA has been mentioned. Would do well Im sure in a 757 config. The Northwest DC-10 BOS-GLA did well in economy.
 
airbazar
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:05 am

Execept the so called large population of Irish and Italians who travel are low yield passengers. There isn't that much business between New England and Ireland or Italy, except tourism, I don't think. The same applies to Brazil, and Portugal, each of these arguably with a larger population in New England than the Irish and Italians combined.
 
gustyorange
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:26 am

It has been strongly rumoured on here that AA will operate from BOS to GLA next year.

NW operated this route for years before closing down their tx operation at BOS.

NW packed DC-10's full every day. I'm sure AA could fill a 757 no problem.

Gusty
 
boeingbus
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:50 am

"The same applies to Brazil, and Portugal, each of these arguably with a larger population in New England than the Irish and Italians combined."

Sorry, but where do you get your numbers? Totally not true ... The Irish and Italians make considerably more than the Portuguese speaking population in New England. Maybe I am misunderstanding your statement.

But I do agree Ireland/Portugal/Brazil are touristic destinations for most and from BOS only seasonal service is likely. Italy FCO/MXP should support year round service as Milan is huge business center.

But I have doubts any of these destination will happen from BOS as JFK/EWK is a jaunt away.
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LUV4JFK
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:47 am

Unless AA is already flying these routes out of DFW, ORD or MIA, it's not going to happen. They would never launch a new European city from Boston when they could start it out of a hub, even with ORD's number of delays. Even though Boston has a large Irish population, American isn't going to fly to Dublin or Shannon without going through Chicago first. Rome and Glasgow are only seasonal services to begin with, so I think there would be a much better chance to see one of those 2 cities for new service, especially Rome.

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DfwRevolution
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:53 am

Unless AA is already flying these routes out of DFW, ORD or MIA, it's not going to happen. They would never launch a new European city from Boston when they could start it out of a hub

With CO and others filling nearly every seat of their Ireland/UK 752 service, they just might. BOS isn't an obscure destination for AA, and if the traffic is there, go for it....
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:04 am

Unless AA is already flying these routes out of DFW, ORD or MIA, it's not going to happen.

AA already flies to Glasgow from Chicago O'Hare. AA is expected to announce a fourth trans-Atlantic route from Boston for next summer, it will be 757 operated, and will likely be GLA (already served from ORD) or MAD (already served from MIA). Also, they have changed thier mind about BOS-CDG, and will operate it next summer (it was supposed to be discontinued).

AA is going to keep a close eye on what happens to US Airways. If we see a US Airways collapse (hopefully not), AA will definitley try to fortify their LaGuardia, Boston, and Caribbean (from MIA/JFK/BOS) operations. We are already seeing this with new routes like MIA-SKB, MIA-UVF, and LGA-BUF.
a.
 
deltairlines
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:05 am

The thing with BOS is that they can provide quite a bit of feed into the BOS operation for trans-Atlantic flight. They have service from MCO, FLL, and MIA in Florida, SEA, SAN, LAX, and SFO on the West Coast, the STL, ORD, DFW, and SJU hubs, and Eagle service to several destinations on the East Coast, so they should be able to provide enough feed to make a lot of routes first.

Anyway, any word on any more Eagle routes out of BOS? I would love to see GSO-LGA/BOS come on board. Also, Eagle used to serve BOS-PIT, and I wouldn't mind seeing them bring back some upstate NY routes out of BOS.

Jeff
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:14 am

The thing with BOS is that they can provide quite a bit of feed into the BOS operation for trans-Atlantic flight. They have service from MCO, FLL, and MIA in Florida, SEA, SAN, LAX, and SFO on the West Coast, the STL, ORD, DFW, and SJU hubs,

They don't want that feed. BOS is for O&D. They already fly MIA-MAN/CDG/LHR and LAX-LHR, not to mention ORD-MAN/CDG/LHR and DFW-CDG/LGW, so feeding through BOS isn't needed. The flights are there to capture lucrative O&D traffic. Connecting traffic is routed through O'Hare, Dallas, or Miami, whichever is easiest. That being said, of course AA gets plenty (thousands) of connecting passengers at Boston everyday, though that is not the purpose.
a.
 
BostonGuy
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:16 am

Actually, the demographics for the Boston Metropolitan Area (2000 Census) show that Latinos consititute by a large margin the single largest segment of the population.

Of the Irish and Italian segments there are no real "connections" that these people have to Ireland or Italy other than occasional leisure travel. Business connections are weak, too.

Although non-Latino Europeans are still a majority, non-Latino European nationalities don't come close, individually, to the Latino population.

If AA introduces new international routes from Boston I would imagine it would be to places such as the Caribbean, Central or South America. I doubt Ireland will be one of the new routes.
 
A330323X
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:35 am

I understand that AA's transatlantic growth at BOS has discouraged US from its own transatlantic ambitions there. It's not looking as likely that US will (re)start BOS-FRA next summer, and US will almost certainly not attempt BOS-LGW.

Anyway, any word on any more Eagle routes out of BOS? I would love to see GSO-LGA/BOS come on board. Also, Eagle used to serve BOS-PIT, and I wouldn't mind seeing them bring back some upstate NY routes out of BOS.

GSO is pretty well served with US/DL. GSO-BOS has gone from 2 dailies to 6 in a short period of time, so I really don't think there's room for any more capacity there. GSO-LGA is also pretty well served with 10 dailies; I think AA would have better places to use its LGA slots.

I would expect either AA or DL to (re)start BOS-PIT as US continues to pull-down the PIT hub. (I expect US to maintain about 6 daily frequencies on BOS-PIT, with between 0 and 2 mainline frequencies.)
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aa777jr
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:53 pm

FCO is seasonal for AA? I thought it was year round...should be if it's not. MAD is year round.

AA777jr
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gustyorange
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:16 pm

Does anyone know when we might expect an anouncement on the new route from BOS ?

Gusty
 
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airportugal310
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:42 pm

Just for the record here, Portugal (and subsequently Portuguese people) is/are NOT Latino. Thanks

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chautauquasaab
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:43 pm

Didn't AA plan on BOS-NRT some years back?
 
BostonGuy
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:47 pm

Hispanic = Spain and Spanish-speaking countries in Latin America

Latino = Latin American countries (uncluding Portuguese-speaking Brazil)

Portugal, however, falls into neither of those categories.

Thanks for clearing that up, AirPortugal310
 
Iberia340600
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:54 pm

Spain does not = hispanic

Spain is Spanish and/or European
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flpuck6
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:21 pm

AA does NOT fly BOS-FCO.

The CDG route is seasonal and I have heard airport-rumors that the route will not come back after this winter, but no confirmation has been made.
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airbazar
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:30 pm

Bostonguy, thanks for the numbers. The thought that Irish and Italians make up a large group in New England is a present day myth. There are however, a lot of Americans of Irish and Italian ancestry but they are American and have little to no ties to Ireland and Itally. Latinos, especially Brazilians, and Portuguese are by far the largest group of non-American residents in New England.

The travel market for all these groups however, is strictly leisure. I remember back in the good old days Varig was going to start service to BOS but cancelled. TAP pulled back during it's restructuring. AZ can barelly keep up, and Aer Lingus manages to stay on because there is a sizable leisure market from New England to Ireland. Same goes for AZ.
 
miaskies
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:36 pm

Things are looking better for AA ey? great to see the possibilties of future growth at Boston as well!

Would be great to see another AA city in the U.S. serve MAD besides MIA. That city (MAD) is underserved by AA, although it has plenty of code-share with IB on their ORD, JFK legs.
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:59 pm

The CDG route is seasonal and I have heard airport-rumors that the route will not come back after this winter, but no confirmation has been made.

It will come back. It was supposed to be discontinued, but was uploaded into reservation systems this weekend.

Also, don't know about new routes, but AA is discontinuing two Boston routes on Halloween: BOS-PWM (which was seasonal, but will not return since AA is pulling out of PWM) and BOS-LAS.
a.
 
boeingbus
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:01 am

"Latinos, especially Brazilians, and Portuguese are by far the largest group of non-American residents in New England."

When did we start to label a Portuguese as a Latino? Do you know where Portugal is located? lol... Secondly, there hasn't been mass immigration from Portugal since the early 70's... and 99% are folks from the Azores. The reason why TAP pulled out of BOS as the market shrunk...

Azoreans who have maintained their roots fly on SATA (2 flights a week) . Toursts usually fly to Newark on CO and TP or connecting flights via BA/AF from Boston.

If you look at the census, the Latinos (S. American folks who speak Spanish) are BY FAR the largest group. It's the growing segment and not in BOS but throughout the US.

Therefore, AA will never offer flight to LIS... they are going to concentrate on S. American destinations or if Europe major tourist destination, such as MAD.

Again, BOS is so close to JFK and EWK that it doesn't make sense for many destinations.
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:04 am

Therefore, AA will never offer flight to LIS... they are going to concentrate on S. American destinations

AA is not going to offer Boston-South America flights. That's what BOS-JFK and BOS-MIA are for.
a.
 
airbazar
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:29 am

Actually Boeingbus, I am Portuguese  Smile I never said Portuguese are Latinos, although it's a shady area because, as you well know, the Portuguese language is descendent of the Latin. If you read it again, I said "Latinos... and Portuguese".
 
Iberia340600
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:44 am

MIAskies:

IB is looking to open up BOS possibly next year. If that happens...you can be sure that it will have the AA code-share as well.
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miaskies
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:00 am

Yea that sounds just about right...other than MIA and maybe even JFK...I do not think any other city in the U.S. warrants double daily service to MAD from two different carriers. So AA codesharing on the IB MAD-BOS (if it happens next yr) will be as close as it gets for AA serving BOS from MAD.


SALUDOS DESDE MIAMI!

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chrisnh
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:35 am

It would be good to see Iberia back in Boston. I recall when they lost a DC-10-30 at Logan when it hit the approach lights and crash-landed. The hulk resided at Logan for awhile (with the airline logos painted-over so those less-informed onlookers couldn't tell which airline it was)!

In truth there are a handful of international routes from Logan that do well enough to have a lot of lift--LHR and Frankfurt come immediately to mind. But beyond these few destinations everything else is kind of weak. Ireland, Italy and France have been relatively consistent, Switzerland, too. But Belgium came and went (Sabena); the Azores with TAP; the British Isles (Scotland, etc); Holland. I do like the idea of 757s that AA has seen success on, and my question is why Northwest wouldn't do well to use 757-300s on some European routes? Is the 753 not meant for trans-Atlantic runs? That seems tailor-made for those 'long-and-thin' routes that cause airlines to pull back in the winter. With 757-300s it seems carriers could serve routes all year long that might not otherwise support a widebody. For some reason the 757-300 hasn't seen much success, but it seems like it SHOULD be a winner.

Chris in NH
 
airbazar
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:40 am

ChrisNH, just a minor addition. There are still thrice weekly flights from BOS to LIS on Sata Internacional. One of the flights has a stop in the Azores, the others are non-stop. But as you can imagine, these are all leisure passengers, and in that business model they seem to do pretty well.
 
AA767400
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:12 am

Latino, and Hispanic, are very well the same thing in America. Some groups think of themselves as Latino, and some as Hispanic. While, Brazil is not a Hispanic country, it does fall under as being Latin. Heck, Every Latin based Language is Latin. The lines are very then, and can be crossed easily. Many Spaniards consider themselves as Latin. It is not a big deal, and it should not be considered as a insult. In the United States, "Hispanic" can be any race, that originated in Latin America. And Latin America, is not just South America.
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chrisnh
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RE: AA Growing Boston?

Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:03 am

Just to chime in on the AA Boston-Narita flight. I think that was 'A good idea at the time.' This idea was hatched back in the heyday of high-tech travel, and while the flight might have done well under those economic circumstances, it probably would do horribly today. Indeed, having done Boston-Narita once in my life on a 'high-tech' business trip back in 1995, I did so on the one-stop Northwest Flight 3. This was a 727-200 from Logan to O'Hare and a 747-200 from there to NRT. Same flight number all the way through, but I sort of liked the stop in between. The stop in-between seems like it would make sense at a place like SEA/SFO/LAX, and some sort of stop is welcome unless you just gotta get there fast. So, that said, I don't know if the nonstop would have really worked well. Unknown is how many fliers on that route would have instead taken a connection just to stretch their legs. Just because a nonstop might have existed doesn't mean everyone would have beaten a path to it. In my opinion, I don't think BOS-NRT will ever happen nonstop.

Chris in NH