123
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LAB Slowly Taking Over Aero Sur?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:47 pm

For those interested in Bolivian Aviation news, check this interesting link

http://www.lostiempos.com/noticias/30-9-04/30_09_04_eco2.php

Sorry, it´s available only in Spanish.

It does not seem that LAB itself is taking over Aero Sur, but yes, Tito Asbun, major shareholder of LAB, is slowly eating his way up the stock package of Aero Sur.

Seems like stormy times ahead for Aero Sur!

 
LVZXV
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RE: LAB Slowly Taking Over Aero Sur?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:24 pm

123:

Try adding "<" and ">" to the link. What's the status of AeroSur's fleet at present? Are all their 727-200s still grounded? How are LAB coping with the loss of two-thirds of their widebody fleet? Will CP-2425 be repaired or scrapped? If the latter, is LAB actively seeking a replacement?

Saludos,

ZXV

P.S. ¿Vivís en Santa Crúz o Cochabamba?

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
latinaviation
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RE: LAB Slowly Taking Over Aero Sur?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:31 pm

 
SEQU
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RE: LAB Slowly Taking Over Aero Sur?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:55 pm

Hola Todos,

Any news on LAB's new relationship with the remains of Ecuatoriana???

Thanks,

Alfredo
 
123
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RE: LAB Slowly Taking Over Aero Sur?

Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:39 am

ZXV: 5L's fleet is not known to me - it changes too much, I think depending on their monthly leasing payments. CBB receives mainly the 721... the 732 goes mainly to EZE/GRU.

ALFREDO: LB's participation with Ecuatoriana is open, pending Governmental approval, but I understand it´s going straight ahead in a positive way.

It seems LB will get up to 6 new (used) aircraft by December which is "highest" season for them.

5L is deffinitively behind, although they indicate having a participation of over 50% for the inland flights. ???

 
LeoDF
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RE: LAB Slowly Taking Over Aero Sur?

Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:32 am

Where the hell have I been! I didn't know! This news came to me as a shock! As 123 is THE Bolivian expert in this forum I would like to ask you what do you think about this merger? Do you think it'll help Bolivian aviation to grow or will it only make of it a monopoly?

I think Asbun is a really clever businessman! Hope to hear from you soon, as I am in love with Bolivian aviation!!

Thanks!

A. De Leo
"PiloT"
Lloyd Aereo Boliviano
 
123
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RE: LAB Slowly Taking Over Aero Sur?

Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:53 pm

Buen Día (Good Morning) LeoDF!

The situation is interesting. Asbun purchased stocks from a known businessman, for a shareholding company that has shares of 5L (quite complicated constelation).

You can imagine Humerto Roca (CEO of 5L) jumping up and down on his seat because according to statutes, he has the first choice to purchase shares of 5L if sold, but in this case, no 5L shares were sold. Shares of a shareholding company based in the Bahamas were sold!

Competition is good, and eventhough I favor LB for many reasons, we need 5L in Bolivia because they pushed LB to improve quality; 5L covers some routes / schedules LB does not, and I think which is the most important, 5L gives jobs - and daily meals - to thousands of Bolivians, directly and indirectly.

Asbun is a clever businessman, no doubt. And I am sure that for him too, it would be wise to steer clear from a merger of 5L and LB. Sometimes, it´s better to control your competition than to eat it up, as what RG did when merging with Rio Sul, Cruzeiro, Etc., now, they have a load of problems instead of books of solutions.

By the way LeoDF: Why is it that Bolivian aviation fascinates you so much?

Saludos!

123
 
LeoDF
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RE: LAB Slowly Taking Over Aero Sur?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:17 am

Good point there 123! All of this has to do with marketing strategies!

What name is more recognized in Bolivia? I imagine LBB, better than 5L! Although I think 5L has also some reputation. So, merging them as you say, could mean trouble! You have to know the value of the name of your company or companies! If both have good reputation there are no reasons to get rid of one. But, on the other hand, 2 different names can also mean more money!

From paint jobs, uniforms, any single item carrying LB or 5L names can be more costly. The smartest thing to do would be a fleet unification, they have too many types of aircraft in a fleet of nearly 20.

But, Asbun is the richest man in Bolivia right? So, I assume he knows how to do business!

Well, my fascination for Bolivian aviation came when I had to do like a research of Bolivia 10 years back! When I discovered LAB, and read their history, I knew I liked this airline. When I discovered they had regular flights to MEX, I liked them even more. It's like an internal thing, I really can't explain why, it just happened, and many friends ask me why do I like Bolivia, I just like the country!

Well thanks for your reply. See you around!

A. De Leo
"PiloT"
Lloyd Aereo Boliviano
 
LVZXV
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RE: LAB Slowly Taking Over Aero Sur?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:40 am

Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano is a very likeable airline once you've actually flown on them and learned that there is nothing to fear. Likewise, Bolivia is easily one of the spiciest countries on the American continent, and not hard to fall in love with. Unfortunately, my visit to Bolivia a year ago was cut short by the massive unrest which unseated "Goni" Sánchez de Lozada and left 80 people dead in La Paz, but nonetheless, I am determined to return to Bolivia and explore its many natural and cultural wonders with more time and in greater depth. What impressed me most about Bolivia was the rugged resilience of its people, such that judging by mood, you don't feel that you are in South America's poorest country, as you can in Paraguay or Peru (which are not).

I don't suppose AR's planned Bolivian subsidiary will start-up any time soon, if the delays in Chile are anything to go by. Do LAN or TACA have any intention of expanding in Bolivia? Doesn't TACA have a close code-share agreement with AeroSur? And how is Asbún dealing with LB's debts? Remember 123 I mentioned not long ago how a couple of aviation-savvy businessmen in La Paz told me that LB was over US$50 million in the red. Is this (still) the case?

Hopefully, both airlines will be around for many years to come...


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Saludos,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
SEQU
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RE: LAB Slowly Taking Over Aero Sur?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:48 am

123,

Thanks for the info,

I'm curious to see where this will develop (Ecuatoriana-LAB), or more likely LAB-Ecuatoriana Smile

Saludos,

Alfredo
 
Arcano
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RE: LAB Slowly Taking Over Aero Sur?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:39 am

ZXV: Lan has many intentions in Bolivia, but I don't see Bolivia having intentions with LAN!

Actually, a couple of years ago LAN flew to Santa Cruz, La Paz and Sucre, now only La Paz, and not even daily. Remember the relations between both countries have been very uncomfortable the last months.

Regards )( Arcano
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
123
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RE: LAB Slowly Taking Over Aero Sur?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:06 pm

LEO DF:
******
Thanks for the feedback!

I don´t see a great fleet mix nowadays. LB has - with exception of the F27, an all-Boeing fleet: 721, 722, 733, 767 and will incorporate 757. The A-310 has since long left the fleet.

5L has also an all Boeing fleet, 721, 722, and 732.


In a nation where flying conditions are difficult it´s best to use aircraft for which you have many experienced pilots: 727's!

ZXV:
****
So you were here when all the chaos was going on? Well then you did sure see the worst of the bad. Come back, you'll enjoy the country when it is peaceful as now!

Yes, TACA/AeroSur codeshare the evening flight from LPB/VVI and earlybird from VVI/LPB, they use A319 from Taca for this, and 5L prides it to be "their" A319, if you check their boardbook and website...


I doubt that AR will start anytime soon with operations within Bolivia. PZ tried that some time ago and the project was put to files due to opositions.
ALFREDO:
*******
LAB's fleet right now is of 16 aircraft and it is said this weekend officially from LAB, that no later than beg. 2005, the fleet should be at least 30!

This is being done in part, to start the Ecuador-Branch, whatever the name will be, with flights mainly to the USA (starting/ending in Bolivia, but going via Ecuador, and also, to increase LB the VVI-MAD-VVI route to twice weekly, plus also new destinations.

ARCANO:
*******

When did LAN fly into Sucre...?? First time I hear this... maybe it was a charter, because for regular international operations, Sucre (SRE) is not certified.

The problem with LAN flying only to LPB now (formerly yes, to VVI) has to do with their schedules, the flight is too long because they route it via ARI/IQQ to SCL (here they call it "el vuelo lechero"). LB has 5 weekly VVI-SCL-VVI nonstop flights.

Politics asside, the reasons there are no longer daily flights of LAN or LAB from Bolivia to SCL has to do with the fact, that SCL is very expensive for Bolivians. EZE/GRU/LIM/PTY are favoured by businessmen for purchases.

SCL does yes, beat all in the medical segment, because no country in Latin America has such a good reputation for high quality medical infrastructure and education of doctors, like they have in Chile, in particular, in SCL.

By the way a long time ago, LAN actually proposed to fly SCL/VVI/MIA/VVI/SCL, but that had to be archived due to extreme resistance from oposition parties and social groups in Bolivia. That was in the time of VASP-LAB, and one week of those LAN flights would have destroyed LB, because the MIA route is one of their best cash generators.

Overall: Bolivians have a strong feeling of protection for "their" airlines and incursions of foreign airlines for inland haulage can be perilous for the airlines. The TACA/5L project works, because the flight figures, and is sold, as a genuine 5L flight.
 
LeoDF
Posts: 349
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RE: LAB Slowly Taking Over Aero Sur?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:06 pm

Hey 123:

Let me try and explain myself on this fleet matter:

I really don't have the exact numbers but will try to get them as close as I remember. The mixed fleet for 5L and LB would be:

4X 727-100's
9X 727-200's
1X F-27
1X 767
2X 737-300's
1X 737-200

Plus the arrival of 757's and the "possible" arrival of the A310 to Aerosur that would make a total of 8 different airplane types. And 3 of them if I am not mistaken at the time only have 1 in the inventory. That sounds like a lot of money to me in spares, maintenance and even training. They should focus on 3 or 4 airplane types.

Here's another question: What commuter aircraft would fit Bolivia perfectly? They should make like a feeder airline, as Aerosur once had with their Let or Lets, don't really know, but they need fewer and newer types of aircraft. How is the 737 doing in comparison with the 727?

Boliviano has a lot of potential! I really don't know why but South America's poorest country has one of the best airlines! It seems unrealistic but I'm fascinated with the idea. I remember some while ago when I bought a Latin American magazine that had an article on airlines, LAB was one of the few that had profits. The poorest country is making a profit with its airline! WOW!

I would love to visit Bolivia soon. Discovery and National Geographic Channels, as well as TVE are having a lot of programs about Bolivia, los salares de Uyuni, the growth of ecoturism, everything there seems great!! But, it's as expensive as Europe! Can't believe it! But, I know sooner or later I'll go there and enjoy every single minute!

Saludos!!!

A. De Leo
"PiloT"

P.S. What is LAB going to do without its 2nd 767? Any idea?
Lloyd Aereo Boliviano
 
LVZXV
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RE: LAB Slowly Taking Over Aero Sur?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:24 am

Arcano:

Remember the relations between both countries have been very uncomfortable the last months.

¡No me digas!  Big grin

123:

I Was in La Paz from September 29-30 last year (flew in from ASU). Crossed into Peru where I spent about a week, then returned (on the advice of my host) to La Paz on October 8 from LIM. I wanted to spend more time there but all the roads were either blocked or cut-up, including the one to Copacabana. I was strongly advised to leave so I did so the next day. Santa Cruz was much quieter, but "Goni" was about to go, so on the 11th, a day after LB suspended all flights to/from LPB, I took a plane from VVI to Salta, which looked 1st World by comparison! I gather the week of October 11-18 was awful for the paceños; where were you?

Like I said, none of the above deterred me from returning, and at the earliest possible moment, perhaps next year, I will return. Lucky for me, no me apuné en La Paz, quite the contrary in fact, the thin air left me buzzing with energy, and I survived a night of heavy drinking with NO ill-effects!

A fascinating country brimming with surprises, mysteries and potential. Does anyone know if LB's 40-year-old 727-100 CP-1223 will head for a museum when it's retired? It's already in record books and is surely worth preserving, as is the 45-year-old F27, don't you think?

Saludos,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
123
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RE: LAB Slowly Taking Over Aero Sur?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:30 am

LEO DF
*****
Thanks for feedback. The aircraft mix is easy to explain and justify as correct, regardless of 5L or LB:

721: Used for lower-pax flights; Great for high altitudes like LPB/CBB/SRE/TJA operations, and low-pax demand short haulage international flights like ARI/LIM/CUZ/SLA and others.

722: Used for the same routes as above, only with larger pax capacity and a bit more freight capacity; Used a lot for Latin international flights (up to PTY/MEX, sometimes MIA).

732: Maybe could be replaced by 721, because 732 is not good for hot+high like LPB/CBB/SRE/TJA. Used by 5L mainly to EZE/GRU.

733: Candidate to replace 721 on the long run. Yet note, 721s are a bit cheaper than 733s...

767: Cannot be replaced: Only widebody with good freight/pax capacity for mid-range (GRU/EZE/MAO/MIA), longer range (DCI) and very long range (MAD).

F27: Irreplacable oldy. used (when working) on really regional routes where cargo load is important, as also, operation on grid strips/bad weather, etc.

In talks for LB are, EMB120 for very small pax demand routes, and 757 for mid-range (MEX/PTY/HAV/CCS).

So, how would you replace this assortment.... not minding now the cost? You would still need a range going from A318 to A330, and down to regional props. Note the range is now in jets, all Boeing: 721/722/732/733/767 and will also take 757. How can you compress? You need aircraft that can withstand troubleless, an ARI/LPB (20 minutes, 0 m to 4050 m), then also VVI/MAD (11:30 hrs.), etc....

The LET 5L used, are standing at VVI ramp getting weathered. They also had Metroliners - at the beginning.

Note, that many regional aircraft would not do well on trunk routes like VVI/CBB/LPB and branch to TJA/SRE, because people here have gotten used to the old ladies like 721. I know from some, that they prefer the 721 to the 733 because they feel it more stable. And I´m talking of people who like to fly.

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