EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:31 am

TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Fri Oct 01, 2004 6:30 am

I just read in a Brazilian newspaper that TAM will start in November a daily flight to Santiago do Chile and a flight to Lima Peru early next year.

Here is the source (Portuguese - sorry guys)

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/dinheiro/ult91u89513.shtml

According to the article the flight to SCL will depart from GIG, although they don't say anything about it, I think it will make an stop in S?o Paulo.

Hugs,

EMB195ER
 
DBCooper
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:51 am

RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Fri Oct 01, 2004 6:44 am

Yes, GRU-SCL will originate/terminate in GIG.

Morning departure from Brazil, mid-afternoon from SCL.


- DBC
 
TBCITDG
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Fri Oct 01, 2004 7:23 am

Will this then become the first route where they will compete head to head with LA, or are there other routes where they already compete??
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Fri Oct 01, 2004 7:54 am

First route that they will be competing directly with LA. TAM currenttly only flies domestically within Brazil and internationally to CDG, EZE and MIA.
 
EddieDude
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:43 am

They might compete with LA through their affiliate Transportes Aéreos del Mercosur (TAM Paraguay) in ASU-SCL if such route exists.

I think it is great news that JJ is expanding in the region. JJ is an excellent airline and I am sure many passengers will be happy to fly them to/from LIM and SCL. I hope JJ flies one day to MEX or, at least, to CUN. Maybe if RG disappears (I do not wish RG to disappear, I am just saying).
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:49 am

Eddie,

TAM Mercosur do not compete with LA in the route ASU-SCL.

TAM Mercosur flies 4 times a week from ASU to SCL with their F100.

Hugs

 
EddieDude
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:55 am

Thanks for the correction EMB195ER, I appreciate it. By the way, I see this is only your 31st posting, so welcome (albeit a bit late) to a.net! I hope (and I am sure) that you will enjoy reading the threads, posting replies and looking at the pictures as much as I have since I joined last November. Bemvindo e até logo!
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:48 pm

Hullo you all.

I am out of all this for some time as my twins were born last week...imagine the amount of hours not sleeped!!!

Just to complete the information, both SCL and LIM will be operated with A320.

Cherrs,
 
EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Sat Oct 02, 2004 12:13 am

JJMNGR,

Firs of all, CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!

I remember once you said SCL would have two daily flights, where one of them would be via ASU.

Is that true??

What would be next destinations for TAM in LA?

Uruguay
Colombia
Bolovia
Venezuela

I think Central America should also be considered, after all Copa will be starting a second flight in 2005.

Hugs,
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:23 am

EMB195ER,

Thanks a lot for your compliments!!!

Yes, the idea is to have 02 flights a day but will start with just one flight. This is going to be GIG/GRU/SCL/GRU/GIG.
The other would be GRU/ASU/SCL operating under PZ flag.

To MVD we operated in the past but for a short period. There is not too much traffic to justify RG, PU and JJ...

There are also plans to fly to CCS uisng a PZ 5th freedom. The route would be ASU/GRU/CCS/GRU/ASU. But nothing already decided.

To Bolivia and Colombia, no plans.

My best regards,

 
EMB195ER
Topic Author
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:57 am

JJMNGR,

You are wellcome!

But in that case, would PZ start operating A320?? Or would it have a plane changing in GRU?

Hugs,

 
TBCITDG
Posts: 851
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:55 am

JJ Congrats!!!
Out of curiosity, has the US ever been considered? Or even Europe. I know little about TAM aside that they are a great airline.
I am wondering whether they will code share with Varig?
 
andahuailas
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:32 am

RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:02 am

I thought that all frecuencies GRU-LIM were used by RG under the current bilateral agreement. Will they fly nonstop from GRU ?, can anyone confirm ?
 
Arcano
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:15 am

Good news for both Chile and Brazil!!!

Eddie: Just a note: SCL-ASU is actually codeshared by LA and PZ, since LA dropped the formes UC rights to ASU.

As for the competition, I think an A320 - 7x won't be a truly competition for RG and LA ofering more frequencies, widebodies and PTVs. Just a complement.
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
Southamerica
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Sat Oct 02, 2004 1:32 pm

I think Central America should also be considered, after all Copa will be starting a second flight in 2005.

Copa has well-stablished an admirable connection system with their "Hub of the Americas" in Panama City, which manages to efficiently feed many flights to deep South America. TAM would have to basically work on the O&D that this route may have, which probably doesn't guarantee the service.

To Bolivia and Colombia, no plans.

I believe that the market is pretty well served by both Avianca and Varig with direct flights from BOG to GRU and GIG. A third operator, if the Brasilian locals approve it, wouldn't be accepted by our national authorities anyways.


SOUTHAMERICA


 
EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:08 am

SHOUTHAMERICA,

What I don't understand is why nobody, before COPA, had the idea to create direct flights to Central America.

Everyone in Brazil (and perhaps Uruguay, Argentina and Paraguay) should fly first to MIA then to Central America. It was, at least, ridiculous.

Hugs,

EMB195ER
 
Southamerica
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:48 am

EMB195ER,

What I don't understand is why nobody, before COPA, had the idea to create direct flights to Central America.

Perhaps there isn't enough O&D demand/traffic to guarantee a sole dedicate service in that area, specifically to Panama City. It works for COPA because, apart from nabbing the O&D that there might be, they also have plenty of feeder flights comming from all over their route network.

Personally, I've heard several people who have opted to fly to cities such as Buenos Aires and Sao Paulo via Panama City with COPA, over Avianca via Bogota. In many occasions, Copa offers better fares, and connection times are extremely convenient; and be sure that this pattern reflects itself on most of their route structure, hence their succesful Hub Of The Americas product.

Right now, Copa is focusing on flying twice daily to most of their destinations (obviously including EZE and GRU, which are among their top performers) in order to allow the optimization of their Hub Of The Americas. Be sure that their upcomming ERJs will help a lot in this process.

Cheers.  Smile


SOUTHAMERICA
 
EddieDude
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Sun Oct 03, 2004 2:06 am

CM is a very competitive carrier in terms of fares that has been smart enough to take advantage of the excellent location of PTY for north-south connections. As Southamerica mentions, their schedule has been carefully designed so as to make connections smooth. You will hear from a lot of people who fly from MEX to South American cities like SCL, EZE or GRU via PTY with CM because service is good and the fares are lower than LA, MX, AM or RG.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
Arcano
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Sun Oct 03, 2004 5:18 am

EMB: UC started direct service South - Central America in the early 90s: Punta Cana, Kingston, Havana, Guatemala, Salvador, San Jose, etc

Eddie: I agree about the great strategy followed by CM. It's amazing to see those 737700 full of Chileans, regardless the 3:00 a.m departure! But I don't see their competitive advantage in price, not that cheaper than LAN. For me, their more remarkable advantage is the daily service: for instance, LAN flies to HAV, PUJ and CUN only 3x, so you have to adjust your schedule to these days only. CM offers more cities and more days.
Although CM and TA are very competitive in the routes SCL-USA

)(
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Sun Oct 03, 2004 7:42 am

EMB195ER,

The second flight to SCL is going to be all trip operated with an A320. No F100 for this flight. What is not cleared yet, is the negotiation of an A320 for PZ to use. All aircrafts are being very busy as all JJ routes are having very good demand. Seems the domestic flights in code-share with RG are near to the end so TAM will need as much A320 as posssible. Some other 10 are on order to Airbus.

TBCITDG,

TAM already has 02 daily flights to US, using A332. MIA is the gateway. To Europe, TAM operates 10 x a week to CDG using also A332. Also some 04 flights a day to EZE with A320. No code-share with RG on international flights (exeption is EZE...). To MIA there is a code-share with AA and to CDG a code-share with AF (near to end).
Also on domestic routes, the code-share with RG seems will not continue in 2005.

Andahuailas,

Yes, the flights to LIM are going to be non-stop service using A320.

Arcano,

I am on vacation due to the born of my twins and will return to work on the 27th...as the flights are expected to start on 05th NOV, there is a possibility that I have to travel to SCL some days before to stay there at the time of arrival of the first flight, or I will be on board first flight. I will let you know in order you can pay me a pisco!!!

Cheers you all.
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:31 am

JJMNGR -
Why is the AF code-share ending? Will this result in the end of the AF/KL frequent flyer relationships?

Thanks!
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:01 am

You had twins?!?!?!?! Congratulations! Well, after all there will be a good reason for cheers with Pisco Sour! Email me to coordinate dates. I don't expect to be out of Santiago those days...(but could happen depending on my November schedule).

Regards,

)(
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:54 pm

Nickofatlanta,

I really don´t know the reasons and what I wrote about this are rumors yet. I do not participate directly on these negotiations as these negotiations refers only to passengers and manage the hole cargo network, which is not part of any deal.

Arcano,

Yes, 02 little princess!!! Thanks for the compliments. I will let you know about my trip.

Cheers,

 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:59 am

Hi, guys,

Arcano:

It is decided: AF and TAM mutual milleage accrual and codeshare operation on the routes between Brazil and France have finished. I don't think it is because of the AF/KLM relationship, since TAM also has a codeshare agreement with KLM on the route GRU-GIG and GRU-EZE. To be honest, I don't know what is the reason behind this decision. Maybe TAM is about to join a global alliance - it has strong cooperation with AA, so it would make sense to join Oneworld? Just speculation...btw, it is more than time for TAM to join a global alliance, since RG is part of Star Alliance...

Southamerica:

Indeed, COPA has daily flights from Panama City to Sao Paulo. From January it will add another 5 flights, making 12 flights a week, and from June/05 the service will increase to 14 flights a week (day and night services). Reports show that COPA flights to GRU have a 80% load factor, and excellent results on the business class - off course, COPA provides the best connections from GRU to Central America, as otherwise you would have to fly to MIA! COPA is also expanding its operations to EZE.

EMB195ER:

Because of more intense competition from TAM in South American routes (ref. TAM due to start services to SCL, LIM and possibly CCS), RG is considerably improving its services to LIM and CCS. RG started daily services with 757-200 on these routes, and 4 more 757-200 are to be received early in 2005.
But I doubt RG can ever compete with TAM...

JJMNGR:

I am not surprised that TAM will suspend its codeshare operations with RG! It will put even more pressure on RG, and TAM should avoid any association of its excellent image and reputation with RG!

Question:

Anyone knows why RG reintroduced a MD-11 on the flights AMS/CDG-GRU/POA; it has been using a brand new 777 on this route. Also read reports that the 777 on the route NYC-GRU/GIG has also been replaced by a MD-11.
I am very disappointed since I fly AMS-GRU quite frequently...KLM uses a 777 on this route since May.

 
EddieDude
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:16 am

It is very strange that the JJ-RG codeshare will end. I completely agree that JJ does not need the codeshare as much as RG does and that perhaps JJ is doing the right thing as Hardiwv mentions. What surprises me is the fact that this is so abrupt. The announcement that the two companies were going to enter into a very extensive codeshare agreement and were planning to form a jointly owned company to take over all of the back-room activities came less than one year ago. It is interesting how things change so rapidly in the aviation industry, especially in Latin America. Hopefully Hardiwv or any of our Brazilian friends could provide some insights and ideas in connection with this subject.

I also think that it is surprising that the AF/JJ partnership is ending. I think it was a good deal for JJ, although of course I could be wrong. It will be very interesting to see if JJ moves closer to oneworld now that the AF codeshare is over. Too bad because JJ would have been an awesome addition to SkyTeam, which is my favorite alliance.

Last but not least, welcome Hardiwv to the forums. I look forward to reading more of your interesting and knowledgeable comments and I trust that you will enjoy posting as much as I have since I joined one year ago. Welcome!
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:10 am

It is now official!

JJ8026/JJ8027 will start 02DEC04!!!

Arcano, I won´t wait until inaugural flights starts as I have to go to SCL in order to take a lot of provisions, so as soon as I have my schedule, I will advise. I will fly with LAN to SCL beggining of NOV!!!

Cheers,

 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:48 am

JJMNGR:

Question:

Do you know whether TAM is considering any global alliance? If it wants to further expand its international network it needs to join a global alliance. I've heard rumours that TAM is actually considering joining Oneworld, among other factors, because of its close cooperation with AA. This would explain why TAM ceased its codeshare with AF. And it also explains TAM starting operations to SCL, as it would use LAN's synergies in SCL.

TAM's expansion will put a lot of pressure on RG, which will certaily lead them to end their codeshare agreement in Brazilian domestic flights + EZE.

Thanks for the updates on TAM, JMNGR!

The "Magic Red Carpet" is flying high:


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Photo © Gustavo Kaufmann
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Photo © Pascal MAILLOT






[Edited 2004-10-10 23:52:43]
 
Arcano
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RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:16 am

I'll be in Buenos Aires 30/10 - 1/11, so let me know! We'll have a Pisco Sour and I'll give you my resume.
JJ and Arcano will defeat LAN...

in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:31 am

RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:45 pm

Hardi,

I know that you asked this question to JMNGR, but I will add a comment that I read some time ago from TAM's CEO Marco Bologna.

He says that a moving to a global alliance is not an easy decision, since it means re-organizing your domestic time table in order to facilitate connections with international airlines arriving in GRU and when asked about Oneworld or Skyteam he didn't answer anything, just said both alliances were interesting.

Finally, I think JJ will join an alliance only after a consolidation in the domestic market, i.e., a RG reaching a final solution to its caotic situation.

Hugs,

EMB195ER
 
hardiwv
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Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:54 am

EMB195ER:

Thanks for your reply! Let us not forget that TAM already has a solid (and consolidated!) position in the Brazilian domestic market, it is the leader in the domestic market with 35.6% share of the market (Varig comes second with 31.6%). But if TAM really wants to become competitive it needs to be part of a global alliance...at least this is what I think!  Smile
 
EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:31 am

RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:25 am

Hardiwv,

I do agree with you when you say TAM needs to be part part of a global alliance.

However, we can not forget the way things work in TAM. Excepting that period when they started, at the same time, flights to Zurich, Frankfurt, and Montevideo, they normally move step by step, i. e., just opening a new international flight when the previous one is already being profitable.

So, if they are starting these two new flights now (SCL and LIM) we could wait new destinations only in the second semester and I would say the same about a decision regarding a global alliance.

Btw, these mistake with Zurich, Frankfurt, and Montevideo costed the marketing director position at TAM (according to some of my sources!!!!).

An example: TAM is planning a flight to New York City since 1999, but they didn't find the right moment to start it yet.

Hugs,

EMB195ER

 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:53 am

EMB195ER:

Good point and agree with you! TAM indeed has this "step-by-step" strategy, and is very slow in taking decisions. But I have the feeling that we can expect lots of news regarding TAM in 2005! Let's wait and see...
 
DBCooper
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:51 am

RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:32 am

I understood that the AF/JJ codeshare was on the rocks because of JJ's 2nd GRU-CDG frequency (which is actually 3 days/week). Apparently AF was none too happy with this move...


- DBC
 
EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:31 am

RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:28 pm

DBCooper,

Well, the situation could be even worse, because TAM request 7 frequencies and was given only 3, while RG got other 4 to fly from GIG to CDG.

AF is using all frequencies they have available to Brazil. When they merged with KLM people started saying they would drop KLM from Brazil. However, they are increasing KLM frequencies from 5 to 6 and next year it will become daily.

Hugs,

EMB195ER
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:50 pm

EMB195ER:

Indeed, in addition to AF's daily flights to GRU, AF also has direct and daily flights CDG-GIG, and from November AF will increase capacity on this route using the 747!

I can also confirm that there are rumours about KL dropping their flights AMS-GRU (heard that from more than one KL staff). But apparently there has been some change in this respect as KL introduced the 777 to GRU and will increase flights from 5 to 6 x week and next year will be daily, as EMB195ER mentioned.
 
EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:31 am

RE: TAM Flights To Santiago And Lima

Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:48 am

Hardi,

I think this is the problem with the codeshare between AF and JJ. While RG and JJ have 21 flights per week to CDG, AF has "only" 14 flights to Brazil. They will use KLM rights to increase it to 21 flights per week.

Additionally, AF is already using KLM flights to bring Europeans to Brazil. I have a friend in Barcelona and she bought an AF ticket to São Paulo. She will fly BCN-AMS-GRU and on her way back home it will be GRU-CDG-BCN.

Hugs,

EMB195ER