FlySSC
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Air France's Fleet News

Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:08 pm

Air France's fleet of B777-300ER is growing...

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The 4th aircraft F-GSQD was delivered in September.
F-GSQE will be delivered this month, QF in November and QG in December, so 7 a/c (on a total order of 16) will be already in service at the end of this year. 3 more a/c are scheduled to join the fleet between Jan. and April 2005.

After NRT, the B773ER should serve SIN, HKG, PVG, IAD, JFK, LAX, IAH in a near future.

The first figures after 4 months of operations show and excellent reliability of the a/c and better performances than what was announced by the manyfacturer.
"The results are above the most optmistic expectations" declared AF's Managers.

From its home base CDG, the B777ER can fly nonstop with a full load to all the destinations served by AF (except PPT).

The a/c have a comfortable 3 class configuration with 8P/68J/235Y

First Class "l'Espace Premère" :

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Business Class "l'Espace Affaires" :

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Economy Class "Tempo" :

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Since September 10th, the first B747-400 (F-GITA) reconfigured for the Carrebean/Indian Ocean network is in service.

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The aircraft is configured with 17 Business "Espace Affaire" in the "nose" - 400 "Vacances" Class on the rest of the main deck, and 57 "Alizée Class" (Premium Economy) at the upper Deck.

They will progressively replace the 4 remaining B743 and 4 B742 still in service.
The retirement of this type should come earlier than scheduled, due to the ever increasing price of oil.

The other configuration for regular Long-haul destination of the B744 is 40 "Espace Affaires" (from the "nose" to doors 2) and 393 Economy "Tempo".

B744 F-GITJ with the new config.:

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The 3rd A319-ER (owned - 4th in use) will be delivered within the next few days. F-GRXI will join F-GXRG / XH and F-GTAS (leased from Aero Service) on the DEDICATE services from CDG to DOH, SSG, PNR, TAS, KWI.


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The opening of KIS (Kish Island - Iran) is postponed as Air France is still in negiciation with the Iranian administration for traffic rights to this destination and for additional freqencies to THR.

 
European
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:21 pm

Hi Flyssc

Is there any chance of Air France ordering more A318,19,20,21's?
How many of the above aircraft are still on order?

Thanks

Euro
Come on Ryanair! Come on BOH! BASE BASE BASE! Flying high in the skies...........
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:44 pm

Concerning the A318, 15 are on order and 6 are already in service.

21 B735 are still in service but progressively retired and replaced by A318/A319. There shouldn't be anymore Boeing in the AF's Short/Medium Haul fleet by the end of 2006, maybe sooner.
But AF should replace them by more A319, rather than A318.

More A319-ER/LR will be ordered for the DEDICATE services as this product is already profitable just after few months of existence, and this concept will be extended to other destinations.

The A321 is not very popular with AF, as the airline made the choice of "Frequencies" against "big capacity" and AF doesn't face any "slot" restriction at CDG for the moment, so the fleet of A321 should not grow that much in a next future...unless :

A new project of using the A321 as a Medium/Long haul a/c, with a "REAL" Business class (like on the A319-ER) is under studies but we don't have a lot of informations yet concerning this.


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TS-IOR
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:49 pm


Whatever AF makes, i always want to classify this airline below its German and British competitors !!! Sorry !!!
Next flight TUN-YUL Tunisair A330-243.
 
European
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:53 pm

Hi Flyssc

Thanks for replying
What is the Dedicated service

Thanks

Euro
Come on Ryanair! Come on BOH! BASE BASE BASE! Flying high in the skies...........
 
fluorine
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 4:01 pm

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:05 pm

What is the range of A319ER/LR?

Thanks
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5186
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:14 pm

European,

The "DEDICATE" service was launched last spring.

The idea was initially to offer Nonstop flights from CDG to "Oil Business" destinations such as PNR (Pointe Noire - Congo), SSG (Malabo - Equatorial Guinea), TAS (Tashkent), KWI, DOH. But as the traffic (very lucrative) doesn't justify the use of a "normal" long-haul airliner, the service is operated by some A319-ER, configured like a long-haul airliner with 28 Business Class and 54 Economy.

Due to their success, some destinations like KWI could be soon served with a regular A332, and new destinations are be added to the network : Atyrau (Kazakhstan), Kish Island (Iran) etc...

This service could also be used as soon as next year to offer Nonstop from AF's second French Hub LYS (Lyon-St Exupéry) to NYC.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:27 pm

Fluorine,

The A319-ER has a range of 6500km/3520nm.
The A319-LR has a slighly longer range, about 6800km.
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6039
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:48 pm

Is it confirmed that they will fly the 773Er to HKG.....or is it merely an opinion? I would love to see them here. Any more 772s on the horizon?
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:52 pm

HKG has been anounced by AF, as well as SIN and all the destinations mentionned in the Topic, but I don't know WHEN !

An order for additionnal B772ER/B773ER and A332 is in the air to begin the replacement of the A343 in a longer term.
 
flying lsd
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 1:30 am

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:59 pm

Can somebody help me about the flight to Mauritius:
it's always a 744 but which configuration?
same as caribbean, reunion island ( 4 aircraft enough?)
 
767-332ER
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 1:20 pm

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:16 am


Awesome news from one of Skyteam's best members!!!! I love the idea of the long and very thin routes that the A319LR's are operating.
Regards
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
debonair
Posts: 2708
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:18 am


F-GTAS (leased from Aero Service)

Can somebody provide me with their web-address?? Would like to have more infos on that company! Merci, ThanX chriX
 
kaitak
Posts: 8969
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:48 am

Very interesting news; thanks.

I got the most recent AF timetable and I was actually surprised to note that they no longer have (according to the seat plans) F class on their 744 fleet.

It's good to see AF getting its act together and I'm sure its dealings with an airline of KL's class can only improve its efficiency. These two airlines can co-operate positively in many areas.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:53 am

Can anyone confirm the rumor that, starting in summer 2005, AF will go from 7 weekly CDG-MEX flights using 744's to 11 weekly flights using 773ER's?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
jonathan-l
Posts: 394
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 2:04 am

Concerning reply 7:
The A319LR has a range closer to 4500nm (8300km).
The 6800km mentioned is the max range for a standard A319.
 
N1120A
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 2:39 am

8300 KM sounds more like the range of the A319CJ, I believe the 6800 Km range is for the ER or LR.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
B747forlife
Posts: 386
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:09 am

FLYSSC, is the 777-300ER really going to IAD in the Spring? Just wondering because next Spring I'm going to be going to Paris on Air France from IAD and it would be awesome to get a ride on the -300.

-Nick
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:10 am

The price for their Dedicate service seems to be astronomical high. A test booking for Strasbourg-Point Noire in early November in economy says Euro4667. If thats the typical price for their Dedicated service, I can't see how they will make it work for routes like Lyon-New York where they have competition. Maybe an all business flight like LH's Privateair flights is more likely in this case.

Has anyone informations about the economics to operate the A319LR. Is it really necessary to ask for such high prices to fly an A319LR long-haul? What are the number to operate an A319LR vs an A330?
 
gigneil
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:17 am

The A319ER is a standard build... its just the highest MTOW of the regular airframe.

The A319LR is a structurally enhanced airframe based on the ACJ.

N
 
FlySSC
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:26 am

Debonair,

The A319-LR leased from Aéro Service is F-GYAS, not F-GTAS... sorry for the mistake.

8300km is the range of the A319-CJ, not the -ER/LR.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12425
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:32 am

On August 28th, 2004, I took a tour of Boeing at Everett, which included the finishing/delivery area for 767, 777 and 747 a/c across the road from the assembly plant. That area is where painting, final fittings, testing (airport there), corrective work and delivery is done. One of the aircraft undergoing pre-delivery work was an AF 777-300 ER's, probably the one delivered in September (F-GSQD? Sorry I didn't get the registration, if available). It's odd, but good, that AF goes with Boeings for long haul's vs. Airbus' which are assembled in France. What would be the primary routes this would serve? Maybe CDG-LAX/Asia/South Pacific/South American long nonstop routes?
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:20 am

JOFMO,
that's probably because the flight is already heavily booked.However,the yields on these routes is already excellent and the only other way to get to PNR is via the likes of BZV,LBV or LAD!I think most Texan and French oil execs would prefer the direct flight Smile
 
debonair
Posts: 2708
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:24 am

The A319-LR leased from Aéro Service is F-GYAS, not F-GTAS... sorry for the mistake.


ThanX. None with the web-address of AERO SERVICE???
 
Max Q
Posts: 5644
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 7:57 am

Does AF still use the 767?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
flpuck6
Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 1999 12:32 am

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:27 am

Hi Max Q,

Negative, AF no longer uses the 767-300ERs. The last one flew in March of 2003 from Philadelphia.
Bonjour Chef!
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:36 pm

Can anyone confirm the rumor that, starting in summer 2005, AF will go from 7 weekly CDG-MEX flights using 744's to 11 weekly flights using 773ER's?

As of today, the CRS still shows a daily AF B744 on the CDG-MEX route all through the winter, so I guess it's unlikely to change as the winter schedule is to go in operation in less than 4 weeks from now.

Incidentally, AF was also expected to return its non-stop SCL flights this winter, but it seems that also this plan has been put on hold, as SCL will continue to be served daily via EZE.

 
Max Q
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:25 pm

Flpuck6

Thanks for the info.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
fluorine
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 4:01 pm

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 2:17 pm

Will AF order any more A319ER/LR or 773ER?
 
AAplatnumflier
Posts: 958
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:40 pm

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 03, 2004 2:49 pm

I dont get it. How do they plan to do all of these routes with the 773's if they only have so few?

[Edited 2004-10-03 07:56:17]
 
FlySSC
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:14 pm

How do they plan to do all of these routes with the 773 if they only have so few

Well, 16 a/c is not "so few"... Moreover, some destinations are served by different a/c according to the season : SFO = A343 in winter/ B744 in summer etc...

The next destinations to be served by the B773 in the next winter program are finally PEK and SIN.

IAD will be punctually served by the 773, as was JFK at the beginnin of this year but in a medium term, AF plan to operates one of the 2 daily CDG-IAD with the 773, the second being an A343.

MEX remains a daily B744. Didn't hear about the 773 in MEX soon...  Wow!

 
FlySSC
Posts: 5186
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:24 pm

JoFMO,

AF is the only airline to operate a direct flight from Europe to PNR.
Make a test booking from SXB to PNR with LH, BA, IB... you will have to change a/c at least 2 times if not 3 or 4, and transit, as Donser10 said, via BZV, LAD, or LBV... Do you see what I mean ?

CDG-PNR is so successful that AF added a third weekly flight recently and the load factor is about 85% on the line.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7073
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:36 pm

Whats AF's schedule for re-fitting their 744's into the new internal layout.

What routes will get the new (non Dom/Tom) 744 layouts first?
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5186
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:03 pm

The 744's with the new layout (40J/393Y) on te CDG-HAV and CDG-YUL routes
 
mozart
Posts: 2039
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:11 pm

FlySSC,

merci for all those great insights.

Just a question on the "EspaceAffaires" on the DOM-TOM version of the 744: is this the new "Espace Affaires" seat which they also build into the 773?

That would be great, it's a decent way to fly to the Caribbean..  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:27 pm

Mozart,

The B744 dedicated to the "Caribbean/Indian Ocean" network are configured with the new seats in Business Class and Alizée and Vacances class.

All the seats in C and S (Alizée Class) are equipped with :

- PC Plug (1 per seat in C / 2 for 3 seats in S)
- PTV with a 10.4" screen in C and a 6" screen in S.

F-GITA is the first aircraft equipped.


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knoxibus
Posts: 638
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:32 pm

Wonderful news about the COI (Caribbean/Indian Ocean) network improvement.

I have been taking those 742 for at least 9 years to go back home to RUN, and I was starting to worry about the panels coming off or other "cabin quality and environnement" matters!
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5186
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:55 am

BestWestern,

For the next summer season, the B744 will operate a daily CDG-DEL. The aircraft will be fitted with the new seat configuration 40J / 393Y.

For the B773ER "lovers", the a/c will be back to JFK in November (AF006/007)


Another information : the last B737-300 (F-GFUJ) left the AF's fleet just a few days ago.
Only 20 B737-500 are still in service, one a/c being retired from service every month until next April.
Next summer, 12 B735 should continue their service for AF, before being completely retired (and replaced by A318/A319) early 2006.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:05 am

AF is also improving its service to GIG/Rio de Janeiro. AF will introduce the 747 in this route, and flights will be during the night on both ways. Currently AF has direct and non-stop flights from CDG to GIG and GRU (777). It shows its code-share with TAM is paying off!
 
jos
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 8:52 pm

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:24 am

Can anybody tell me when this new 773 ER will fly to Shanghai ?
Tx
Jos
 
njoizflyin
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:05 am

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:59 pm

Hi,
And here I thought this thread was going to be about AF's new twice per year plane washing program.......just kidding. Hey, I'll do it for room, board, and a small allowance, I can get myself to CDG real soon!
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:39 am

I'm curious as to SXM...

...so will a 744 be sent there and flown back 1stop, or will they continue to "abuse" the seating on a [now 2class] A343?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
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drerx7
Posts: 4223
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:52 am

When will the 773s be on the IAH run?
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
henpol747
Posts: 563
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 5:53 am

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:31 am

Any chance we will see the A345 in AF´s colours?
Vive la France! ¡Viva México!
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:45 am

Any chance we will see the A345 in AF´s colours?

------------

Not likely, nor is it likely that we will see a 777-200LR in AF colors, AF and other European carriers really have little use for the ultra long range aircraft as there are not any routes that require the type. The 777-200ER or -300ER (or A343) can easily fly from Paris to most destinations worldwide without significant restrictions. Where would AF fly the A345 of 777LR to? The only possibility that comes to mind is Tahiti, and its highly unlikely that AF would invest in the very expensive ultra long range airliners for that route.....they do just fine with their 744s via LAX. Where else? Australia? Firstly, AF has not flown its own aircraft to Australia for years due to lack of profits and neither type can fly CDG-SYD nonstop roundtip.

The A345 and 777LR are niche aircraft that are far more useful to Gulf and Asian carriers.
 
United Airline
Posts: 8773
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RE: Air France's Fleet News

Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:49 am

Will the B 747-400s get PTVs in economy class?
 
flpuck6
Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 1999 12:32 am

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:03 pm

ConcordeBoy,

What is "abusing seating" as you say above for the SXM flight?

There is only one A340 in the 2-class configuration and it flies exclusively to EWR.
Bonjour Chef!
 
hailstone
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2000 9:42 pm

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:55 pm

@FLYSSC

will be on AF272/06 nov CDG-NRT and AF275/13 NRT-CDG.
AF web schedule schows this as a B772, not 773.

when will AF deploy the 773 on CDG NRT and for which flights ?
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5186
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:37 pm

Hailstone,

Next winter, AF will operate 17 weekly flights CDG-NRT :

1 - - 4 - 6 - = CDG.10:30AM ------ NRT.06:25AM B772ER
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 = CDG.13:20PM ------ NRT.09:15AM B772ER
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 = CDG.11:15PM ------ NRT.07:00PM B773ER

Henpol747, you will not see any A345 or A346 in AF's colours.

United Airlines, the B744 are progressively equipped with PTV in Y class.
F-GITH, F-GITI & F-GITJ already have some :

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VS045
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:33 pm

RE: Air France's Fleet News

Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:49 pm

I have a feeling its a 747-400 to mauritius, because the flights leave from CDG, which is where the -400s are based. I went to reunion island on a 747-200 last april and it was awful. Cramped seats, pull down screens, bad food and not to mention the service!

Cheers,
VS045
4 engines 4 long haul