b741
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Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:13 pm

I am thinking just off the top of my head:

JFK
LAX
MEM
ORD
SFO
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iowaman
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:15 pm

I would narrow it down to JFK or LAX.
 
sccutler
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:18 pm

And I woudl answer LAX without hesitation because, while JFK also has considerable international traffic, not all is widebody; the nature of the Pacific crossing traffic means lots of long-range and big honkin' aircraft.
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LH423
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Actio

Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:20 pm

Well...could you be more specific? Do you mean in terms of total flights on an average day? Or maybe the percentage of heavy-ops to the overall operation? Also, are you including 757s in the count?

Because if going by percentage of ops, I'd imagine that ANC and HNL would be high up the list even though they're not nearly as busy as JFK or LAX (the other two top contenders for the prize).

LH423
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:28 pm

My guess is JFK followed by LAX.
 
b741
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:34 pm

LH423

I am judging by movements and not incl.757.
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spacecadet
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Actio

Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:38 pm

Because if going by percentage of ops,

He just said "most". Which I would think would imply total number, as that's what the word means.

I would imagine the answer is LAX, but JFK's probably close. I'm pretty sure LAX is a busier airport in general, though, and as NY's heavies are split between EWR, JFK and yes LGA (which does get several 764 flights), I'd be surprised if LAX wasn't at the top. LAX is, I believe, the only LA airport that gets heavies. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)

He could be right about MEM too, though. All those FedEx DC-10's and MD-11's.

ORD is mainly a domestic hub so I'd throw it out. SFO is just not as busy as JFK or LAX. Same with HNL and ANC. My guess would be:

LAX
JFK
MEM

in that order.
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flyf15
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Actio

Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:55 pm

Remember, FedEx also has A300s and A310s. I'd consider putting MEM at the top of the list. And although not many other heavies, Delta flies an ENORMUS amount of 767s through ATL every day...
 
Lono
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Sun Oct 03, 2004 2:23 pm

.............LHR............. or NRT..................... or HNL.............
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B6FA4ever
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Sun Oct 03, 2004 2:59 pm

honestly...i think it would say LAX...
remember...LAX is a int'l AND domestic hub for United and they have all sorts of wide-bodies going through there. B747's, 777's, and 767's,

also like mentioned above, there are tons of trans-pac flights that are all widebodies. more asian carriers serve LAX than JFK and at more frequencies too. there's also NW, AA, CO, DL, that takes their wide bodies to LAX daily.

~B6FA4ever
 
flyibaby
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:16 pm

MEM, definately at the top of the list due to FDX and NW. ANC second due to NW, FDX, and numerous other airlines such as Cathay doing refueling stops there enroute to HKG from YYZ.
 
speedbudgie
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Actio

Sun Oct 03, 2004 4:14 pm

I agree, I think that it is going to be JFK or LAX. Consider this though, the sheer volume of flights that JFK recieves from each specific carrier. I think JFK gets something like 6 - 7 flights a day from BA alone.

LAX has many different carriers serving that airport, but none can match the volume of flights recieved into JFK. I don't have the time to research exactly how many widebody movements at each airport, but perhaps someone else has a better idea.

Great question.
 
spacecadet
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Actio

Sun Oct 03, 2004 4:32 pm

MEM, definately at the top of the list due to FDX and NW. ANC second due to NW,

What heavies does NW fly to MEM? It really can't be all that many compared to LAX or JFK. Narrowbodies yes, but I can't imagine Memphis justifying more than a few widebodies per day for any single passenger carrier, even as a hub.

Same with ANC. ANC is not used as a refueling stop all that much like it used to be, so it's not as if you've got multitudes of trans-pacific flights stopping there like you used to see. ANC does have a lot of freight. But most of its traffic is narrowbodies like at most US airports, and it's just not as big of an airport as JFK or LAX (or even MEM).

I'm gonna do a little un-scientific experiment tomorrow, because I'm curious too... I've got most of the world's airlines (including freight and pax) loaded up with their real-world flight schedules in my install of Flight Sim 2004... I'm gonna see if I can print out their schedules to each of these airports and count up the number of heavies. Wouldn't be 100% accurate probably, but would be a good indication.

Consider this though, the sheer volume of flights that JFK recieves from each specific carrier. I think JFK gets something like 6 - 7 flights a day from BA alone.

LAX has many different carriers serving that airport, but none can match the volume of flights recieved into JFK.


This is offset, though, by what I said earlier - JFK gets 6-7 BA flights per day, but how many CO 777's does it get compared to EWR? I'd say the heavy split between NYC's three airports is probably about 60/35/5 between JFK/EWR/LGA. But with LAX probably getting close to 100% of LA's heavy traffic, I think that probably trumps JFK's 60% of NYC heavy traffic, even with the additional flight frequency you see at JFK.

I'll see what my experiment comes up with!
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spacecadet
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Actio

Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:18 pm

Ok, here are the results of my informal experiment. Just to give a little background, I've basically got the real-world flight schedules of all of the major airlines around the world compiled into Flight Sim, and I've got a little utility that just reads the flight schedules and will build a timetable for any individual airport based on them. I can print those timetables but they're very long... so what I'm giving here is just the statistics summaries. Now, I don't have schedules for every single airline around the world, but for this question I don't really need them - it doesn't matter if every Russian regional is represented, for example, to find out which airport in the US has the most heavy action. Also, not all of my schedules are 100% up to date - a few of them date back to Winter of 03. So they're not going to be totally accurate (I've still got AA flying F100's, for example, though those wouldn't be heavies now anyway). So just don't take this to be gospel; but it's probably a good guide as to which airport has the most traffic.

The way the summaries are formatted, it doesn't break it down into total # of heavies per day, but generally the larger the number given for "max huge jet" at any given time in the summary, the more heavy flights per day from that airport. (This isn't necessarily true, but in my manual spot checks it seems to turn out to be true.)

I just took one weekday, in this case Monday, as representative.

Here are the summary results ("huge jets" are the heavies in these summaries):

Airport: KJFK
Time: Monday 00:00:00 - 23:59:59 (GMT -05:00)

Arrivals: 349
Departures: 352

Max. Aircraft: 97 at 23:49:41 (Monday)

Max. Micro Prop: 0
Max. Mid Prop: 0
Max. Large Prop: 0
Max. Micro Jet: 14 at 16:43:57
Max. Small Jet: 18 at 23:44:46
Max. Large Jet: 52 at 23:47:14
Max. Huge Jet: 31 at 16:23:02


Airport: KLAX
Time: Monday 00:00:00 - 23:59:59 (GMT -08:00)

Arrivals: 661
Departures: 656

Max. Aircraft: 175 at 23:51:48 (Monday)

Max. Micro Prop: 0
Max. Mid Prop: 0
Max. Large Prop: 11 at 09:19:24
Max. Micro Jet: 4 at 16:50:59
Max. Small Jet: 90 at 23:19:48
Max. Large Jet: 60 at 21:20:27
Max. Huge Jet: 29 at 22:09:40


Airport: KMEM
Time: Monday 00:00:00 - 23:59:59 (GMT -05:00)

Arrivals: 453
Departures: 461

Max. Aircraft: 120 at 21:02:21 (Monday)

Max. Micro Prop: 1 at 03:25:12
Max. Mid Prop: 1 at 02:58:02
Max. Large Prop: 10 at 07:59:46
Max. Micro Jet: 12 at 12:05:52
Max. Small Jet: 32 at 20:46:21
Max. Large Jet: 32 at 20:05:45
Max. Huge Jet: 48 at 21:39:15

I'm gonna have to change my vote to MEM #1, JFK #2, LAX #3. Note that nearly all of the heavies at MEM are FedEx - NW only flies narrowbodies from the timetables I have. The only non-FedEx heavy I see is one KLM flight (I think it's a cargo flight).

And just for good measure here are the results for some other large US airports, and some other airports brought up in this thread:

Airport: KORD
Time: Monday 00:00:00 - 23:59:59 (GMT -06:00)

Arrivals: 1112
Departures: 1123

Max. Aircraft: 120 at 19:41:26 (Monday)

Max. Micro Prop: 0
Max. Mid Prop: 0
Max. Large Prop: 0
Max. Micro Jet: 36 at 18:22:41
Max. Small Jet: 71 at 23:15:32
Max. Large Jet: 21 at 14:52:16
Max. Huge Jet: 19 at 15:07:02

Airport: KATL
Time: Monday 00:00:00 - 23:59:59 (GMT -05:00)

Arrivals: 1253
Departures: 1264

Max. Aircraft: 122 at 15:54:44 (Monday)

Max. Micro Prop: 0
Max. Mid Prop: 0
Max. Large Prop: 8 at 21:36:48
Max. Micro Jet: 41 at 21:19:34
Max. Small Jet: 62 at 23:31:14
Max. Large Jet: 35 at 15:04:17
Max. Huge Jet: 12 at 15:31:21

Airport: PANC
Time: Monday 00:00:00 - 23:59:59 (GMT -11:00)

Arrivals: 156
Departures: 159

Max. Aircraft: 44 at 21:22:34 (Monday)

Max. Micro Prop: 3 at 09:06:55
Max. Mid Prop: 3 at 01:03:15
Max. Large Prop: 0
Max. Micro Jet: 0
Max. Small Jet: 15 at 20:32:07
Max. Large Jet: 16 at 21:15:11
Max. Huge Jet: 13 at 22:59:46

Airport: PHNL
Time: Monday 00:00:00 - 23:59:59 (GMT -11:00)

Arrivals: 188
Departures: 190

Max. Aircraft: 42 at 19:41:40 (Monday)

Max. Micro Prop: 0
Max. Mid Prop: 0
Max. Large Prop: 0
Max. Micro Jet: 0
Max. Small Jet: 21 at 19:41:40
Max. Large Jet: 18 at 19:34:17
Max. Huge Jet: 10 at 08:21:13

(I realize the GMT times might be off for PANC and PHNL, just ignore that.)

Airport: KSFO
Time: Monday 00:00:00 - 23:59:59 (GMT -08:00)

Arrivals: 382
Departures: 378

Max. Aircraft: 94 at 22:28:08 (Monday)

Max. Micro Prop: 2 at 10:30:46
Max. Mid Prop: 3 at 05:58:39
Max. Large Prop: 0
Max. Micro Jet: 3 at 07:18:49
Max. Small Jet: 32 at 23:09:58
Max. Large Jet: 37 at 20:39:51
Max. Huge Jet: 21 at 21:22:55

Airport: KLGA
Time: Monday 00:00:00 - 23:59:59 (GMT -05:00)

Arrivals: 636
Departures: 640

Max. Aircraft: 125 at 23:58:50

Max. Micro Prop: 3 at 22:08:47
Max. Mid Prop: 6 at 20:08:33
Max. Large Prop: 5 at 06:58:15
Max. Micro Jet: 17 at 07:29:00
Max. Small Jet: 72 at 23:46:21
Max. Large Jet: 31 at 23:58:50
Max. Huge Jet: 2 at 23:29:07

Airport: KEWR
Time: Monday 00:00:00 - 23:59:59 (GMT -05:00)

Arrivals: 548
Departures: 551

Max. Aircraft: 131 at 23:54:37 (Monday)

Max. Micro Prop: 0
Max. Mid Prop: 1 at 02:03:34
Max. Large Prop: 0
Max. Micro Jet: 28 at 18:22:23
Max. Small Jet: 68 at 23:54:37
Max. Large Jet: 31 at 23:49:41
Max. Huge Jet: 10 at 17:54:05

And compared to some overseas airports:

Airport: RJAA (Narita)
Time: Monday 00:00:00 - 23:59:59 (GMT +06:00) - I realize this is probably wrong

Arrivals: 214
Departures: 227

Max. Aircraft: 82 at 18:01:56 (Monday)

Max. Micro Prop: 0
Max. Mid Prop: 1 at 00:12:08
Max. Large Prop: 0
Max. Micro Jet: 2 at 06:28:50
Max. Small Jet: 5 at 11:49:59
Max. Large Jet: 15 at 18:47:28
Max. Huge Jet: 67 at 14:49:59

I'm probably missing some airlines at Narita, but I just wanted to show how ridiculous the number of heavies there is - the vast majority of traffic at Narita is widebody.

(Haneda is much busier than Narita, though, so those numbers probably aren't that far off... I don't have schedules for the former JAS routes JAL now operates, though, so my Haneda numbers aren't worth posting.)

Airport: EGLL (London Heathrow)
Time: Monday 00:00:00 - 23:59:59 (GMT)

Arrivals: 596
Departures: 589

Max. Aircraft: 201 at 23:51:02 (Sunday)

Max. Micro Prop: 0
Max. Mid Prop: 0
Max. Large Prop: 0
Max. Micro Jet: 4 at 07:18:56
Max. Small Jet: 98 at 23:16:35
Max. Large Jet: 33 at 23:42:25
Max. Huge Jet: 67 at 21:29:53

Amazing how much more heavy traffic some of the other airports around the world get compared to even the busiest US airports.

[Edited 2004-10-03 11:31:19]
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N1120A
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:54 pm

In what century does LAX only get 29 heavies in a day? Off the top of my head they get 3 from SQ, 4 from QF, minimum 2 from NZ, 2 from CX, 3 from JL, 3 from LH, 3 from KE, 2 from OZ, 1 from NW, 2 from VS, minimum 2 from TN, min 2 from AF, 1 from Air Pacific, and countless more from AA, UA, CO, Fed-Ex and many, many, many other cargo and PAX carriers. Also, LAX is not the only heavy airport in LA. ONT sees a bunch of heavy traffic, particularly from UPS, but also from DL and others. BUR even sees an A300 from Fed-Ex. The Biggest heavy airports in the US are probably LAX, MEM, ANC (by percentage), MIA, SFO. JFK gets its fair share too, but will not come close to LAX
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spacecadet
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Actio

Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:12 am

In what century does LAX only get 29 heavies in a day?

You're not reading it right. That's the # of max heavies at one time. Not all day. Read what I said about that - it doesn't sound like you read my post.
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AMS
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:16 am

How about EWR?.......Depending if you are talking about passenger numbers or Flight movements?

Regards,
AMS
 
N1120A
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:23 am

Well, this post is about the most heavies period. While JFK sees a bank of international flights at 4 PM, LAX has a lot of heavies mid-day as well.
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AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:29 am

Hey

here is some info on which planes JFK and LAX get

JFK
B767-300
B767-200
B767-400
B757-200
B737-800
B737-700
B777-200
B777-300
B747-100
B747-200
B747-300
B747-400
A320
A319
A300
A310
A340-300
A340-600
A330-300
A330-200
MD11
MD80
DC-10
DC-9

LAX
B767-300
B767-200
B767-400
B757-200
B737-800
B737-700
B777-200
B777-300
B747-100
B747-200
B747-300
B747-400
A320
A319
A300
A340-300
A340-600
A340-500
A330-300
A330-200
MD-80
MD-90
MD-11
DC-10
DC-9

Airlines

JFK

Aer Lingus
Aeroflot

Aerolineas Argentinas

Aero Mexico

AeroSvit Ukrainian Airlines

Air Canada

Air China

Air France

Air India

Air Jamaica

Alitalia

Allegro (Seasonal)
America West (Domestic)

America West (International, Canada & Mexico)

American (Domestic & Puerto Rico)

American (International & Caribbean)

American Eagle

ANA (All Nippon)

Asiana

ATA (Seasonal)
Austrian Airlines

Avianca

Biman Bangladesh
British Airways

BWIA

Cathay Pacific

China Airlines

Continental

Continental Express

Corsair (seasonal)

Copa
Czech Airlines

Delta

Delta Connection

Delta Express

Egyptair

El Al

Emirates

Finnair

Ghana Airways

Iberia

Icelandair

Independence
Japan Airlines

JetBlue (Int'l)

JetBlue (Dom)

KLM

Korean Air

Kuwait Airways

Lacsa

Lan Chile

Lan Ecuador

Lan Peru

LOT

Lufthansa

Malev Hungarian

Mexicana
Miami Air (charter)+

North American

Northwest

Olympic

Pakistan International Airlines

Qantas

Royal Air Maroc

Royal Jordanian

Saudi Arabian Airlines

Singapore Airlines

Song

South African Airways

SN Brussels Airlines (Code Share American)
Sun Country

Swiss International Air Lines

TACA International

Tarom Romanian

Thai Airways Int'l. (Code Share Lufthansa)
Turkish

United Airlines

Universal

Uzbekistan

VARIG

Virgin Atlantic




LAX

Aer Lingus
Aero California
Aeroflot
Air India
Air Pacific
Air Tahiti Nui
Alaska Airlines
All Nippon Airways (ANA)
Asiana Airlines
British Airways
Cathay Pacific Airways
China Airlines
China Eastern
Copa Airlines (Panama)
El Al Israel Airlines
EVA Air
Harmony Airways (HMY)
Japan Airlines
Jetsgo
Korean Airlines
LACSA Airlines
Lan Chile
Lan Peru
LTU International Airways
Lufthansa
Malaysia Airline
Mexicana Airlines
Philippine Airlines
QANTAS
Singapore Airlines
Swiss International Air Lines Ltd.
TACA International Airlines
Thai Airways
Varig Brazilian Airlines
America West Airlines
Mesa Airlines
Southwest Airlines
US Airways
Air Canada
Air China
Air Mobility Command (AMC)
Air New Zealand
Aviacsa Airline
Champion Air
Hawaiian Airlines
KLM Royal Dutch Airlines
Miami Air
Northwest Airlines
Virgin Atlantic
World Airways
AirTran Airways
Alaska Airlines
American Trans Air (ATA)
Frontier Airlines
Horizon Air
Midwest Express Airlines
West Jet
American Airlines
American Eagle
QANTAS
Aerolitoral
Aeromexico
Air France
Air Jamaica
China Southern
Delta Air Lines
Omni Air International
Song Airlines
Spirit Airlines
Sun Country
Continental Airlines
Copa Airlines (Panama)
United (Domestic) Airlines
United (International) Airlines
United Express
United (Domestic) Airlines
United (International) Airlines
United Express
TED AIRLINES

I think that they both compare in the same way except LAX becuase it has a bigger Asian market and JFK has a bigger European market.






[Edited 2004-10-03 19:32:06]
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N1120A
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:38 am

LAX also gets 753, 733, 735, 739, 732, A321, A318, 717, and more, but the point was heavies, which LAX, which is twice as busy as JFK gets more of
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spacecadet
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Actio

Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:04 am

Well, this post is about the most heavies period. While JFK sees a bank of international flights at 4 PM, LAX has a lot of heavies mid-day as well.

I said read my post. You still haven't. If you had, you'd have seen this:

The way the summaries are formatted, it doesn't break it down into total # of heavies per day, but generally the larger the number given for "max huge jet" at any given time in the summary, the more heavy flights per day from that airport. (This isn't necessarily true, but in my manual spot checks it seems to turn out to be true.)

I didn't think it would be necessary to post the entire timetable for every airport because of a little thing called statistical sampling combined with critical thinking on the part of those doing the reading. But apparently not everybody here is capable of that.

If one airport has 40 "max huge jets" at any given time, and another airport has 30, then you can safely assume that the first airport will have approximately 25% more heavies at any time of day, and approximately 25% more heavy movements. Again, this is not necessarily true, but I manually spot-checked the timetables looking at individual aircraft and it ends up that it is true. I could still post the entire timetable for JFK vs. LAX if you want, but you're talking about 15-20 pages of data for each airport.

Sorry if I sound snippy, but it's kind of annoying to do something that's supposed to be fun and that tries to answer a question, however unscientifically, only to have someone call me out on something I explained right in the post. Twice.

Sheesh.
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BG001
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:10 am

I am lost here.....who flies 764 into JFK??????? Please refresh my memory again about 773 also ( except for the few flights AF operated, which i think now done by 772s ).
 
b741
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:00 am

Spacecadet

Thank you for the immense research. Very interesting comparasins shown. I would like to see the number of large aircraft at HND!
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N1120A
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:44 am

I don't think that it utilises critical thinking to post a tiny sample and extrapolate it to mean the be all and end all of truth. While the stuff you pulled up was nice and interesting, it does not actually give a very accurate picture. Flaming me because I point that out is not the way to make it so. While at times of the day JFK is loaded with heavies, as you pointed out, there are other times where it is all B6 A320s with very few widebodies or 753s. I don't expect anyone to pull up 20 pages of data, but I don't expect them to make conclusions based on 1
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UA772IAD
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:48 am

Spacecadet:
Great research! However, I have a question. You said:
"ORD is mainly a domestic hub so I'd throw it out"
But isn't ORD a UA and AA hub which both have significant operations to Europe, and Asia (esp. UA) as well as other domestic cities that take heavies (such as IAD, SFO, LAX, HNL, DEN, DFW)? Also ORD is one of the busiest airports in the world. According to ohare.com, they had 247 international aircraft passages in the month of August '04. They also had 16,135 domestic operations in the same month.
I agree with you that it may not be THE busiest in the country, but discounting it as a domestic hub surely isn't accurate.
-J.
 
TheGov
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RE: Which U.S. Airport Sees The Most "Heavy" Action?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:52 am

All I can say is that the amount of Heavies into MEM knocked me out of my chair. I knew that there were quite a number of heavy movements in and out of MEM courtesy of Fed-Ex, but I never thought MEM would rank so high.

As for NW, they have the daily MEM-AMS DC-10. I haven't checked their schedule in quite a while, but at one time they were running a DC-10 MEM-MSP. So they may have two heavies into MEM on any given day.

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