SAA201
Topic Author
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu May 10, 2001 2:37 am

Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Sun Oct 03, 2004 7:26 pm

Hi all

I recently did a search on SAA's fleet on the website www.planemad.net
It is very interesting to see that there are currently 11 A340-600's listed under SAA and not 9 as per the original agreement. As an Airbus representative has confirmed on another forum that there are no changes to the status of SAA's A346 order and the fact the all current SAA literature on the order only refers to 9 aircraft, I assume the site might contain an error. As I understand it, the two outstanding A346's for SAA are leased from ILFC (I THINK the other is ZS-SNE - can anyone confirm?). POSSIBLY the confusion comes in after a reassignment of c/n's to perhaps facilitate a revised delivery slot to SAA on these two ILFC machines. I assume that c/n's 626 and 630 are also ILFC airframes so I wonder which airline they will land up with?

Anyway here is the list:

Reg Aircraft cn ln Operator Delivery Date Status Testreg Fate

ZS-SNA Airbus A340-642 410 South African Airways 24.12.2002 Active F-WWCE
ZS-SNB Airbus A340-642 417 South African Airways 20.12.2002 ActiveF-WWCG
ZS-SNC Airbus A340-642 426 South African Airways 11.02.2003 ActiveF-WWCH
ZS-SND Airbus A340-642 531 South African Airways 07.11.2003 ActiveF-WWCX
ZS-SNE Airbus A340-642 534 South African Airways 18.11.2003 ActiveF-WWCY
ZS-SNF Airbus A340-642 547 South African Airways 28.01.2004 ActiveF-WWCI
ZS-SNG Airbus A340-642 557 South African Airways 28.01.2004 ActiveF-WWCG
ZS-SNH Airbus A340-642 589 South African Airways On Order F-WWCT
ZS-SNI Airbus A340-642 594 South African Airways On Order F-WWCY
ZS-SN_ Airbus A340-642 626 South African Airways On Order F-WWCF
ZS-SN_ Airbus A340-642 630 South African Airways On Order F-WWCG

Based on production lists of www.Airlinerlist.com

 
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solnabo
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Sun Oct 03, 2004 7:30 pm

SAA201:

Dont know the answer to you´re question, but I wonder what will happen to the 5 A342 when they´re phased out?? Back to Airbus plant?
Thx Big grin

Micke/SE
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
SA006
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:29 pm

Thats interesting...when will SNH and SNI be delivered?

I'd like to catch the delivery flights if possible  Big thumbs up

As for the A342's...maybe SAA will lease them out?

Rgds
SA006
Proudly South African
 
Leskova
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:32 pm

There was talk a while back of SAA keeping the A342s for increasing frequencies on routes that would have overcapacity using daily A343s or A346s, and would otherwise only be operated on a less-than-daily frequency - with the other idea being using them to open up new routes.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
ka
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:12 pm

Short side note: There are 6 SAA A342 presently. ZS-SLA-F. The sixth arrived this spring.
I have already read on this forum that there are plans to refit the A342 with the new C-Class. In that case I believe SAA likes to continue to operate these a/c as the leases will be very favorable....

KA.
Keep smiling - you might be on Radar!
 
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blooBirdie
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:28 pm

Delivery schedule of outstanding orders... I think this was posted by Andz some months ago!

A343:
Jan 05 ZS-SXD A343
Feb 05 ZS-SXE A343
Mar 05 ZS-SXF A343

A346:
Apr 05 ZS-SNH A346
May 05 ZS-SNI A346

A319:
A/c 3 Delivery Oct 2004 ZS-SFF MSN 2308
A/c 4 Delivery Nov 2004 ZS-SFG MSN 2326
A/c 5 Delivery Dec 2004 ZS-SFH MSN 2355
A/c 6 Delivery Jan 2005 ZS-SFI MSN 2375
A/c 7 Delivery Feb 2005 ZS-SFJ MSN 2379
A/c 8 Delivery Mar 2005 ZS-SFK MSN 2418
A/c 9 Delivery Apr 2005 ZS-SFL MSN 2440
A/c 10 Delivery May 2005 ZS-SFM
A/c 11 Delivery Jun 2005 ZS-SFN
A/c 12 Delivery Jul 2005 ZS-SFO
A/c 13 Delivery Aug 2005 ZS-SFP
 
SAA201
Topic Author
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:31 pm

No, it was posted by me!!!!

Yes, it looks like SAA is keen on keeping the A342's for a while yet.
 
Imonti
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Mon Oct 04, 2004 4:32 pm

the A342 are being kept, they are being fitted with the new Business Class seat.

As for those other 2 346, they are coming in 2005.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:58 pm

Maybe SAA are waiting for the A340-600ER! Airbus gonna make the 346 range further (now 14,700 km), but I dunno what the new range will be? 15,000-15,350 km? Maybe I´m too optimistic here......

Anyone knows?

Micke/SE  Big thumbs up
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
Imonti
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:47 pm

The airbusses have failed for saa.

With the new transet CEO Mario Ramos, I highly doubt their will be any more airbusses ordered for SAA or any plane for that matter.

Transnet own SAA.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:58 pm

Imonti:

"The airbuses have failed for SAA"

Come again? SAA got orders for A319 n 20´s....

Micke/SE
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
andz
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:18 pm

Sorry BlooBirdie I can't take credit for that!

Solnabo, is the 346ER a reality or just speculation? Do you think a 346ER would make sense with the existence of the 345? How much extra payload could such an aircraft carry to justify creating a new derivative of the 346?

I have asked my source within SAA to confirm the reported additional two 346 and will post when I have an answer.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
BelugaBoy
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:20 pm


@ Imonti

Sorry that is a NON post !!

Or you come up with arguments/information or you don't post this kind of things !

BTW SAA has chosen airbus above Boeing while they already had B737 NG !

Now going back to Boeing aircraft, before +/- 50% the ordered Airbusses are delivered ( how can they fail before being delivered ) ... just doesn't make any sense so I don't believe a word.
Even if the aircraft are not delivered, cancelling these things COST MONEY !!
You don't change your mind every 3 years in this kind of decissions, and if you do I have serious doubts about that way of managing a company !

And if this is an attempt of starting a stupid A-B discussion STOP-IT
Nobody has any advantages by these kind of posts !!
 
knoxibus
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:24 pm

It's not really a question of the aircraft "failing" but more about SAA's commercial and marketing strategy that failed. I think that was discussed a while back here.

It was about despite knowing the A346 capability in terms of range and payload, they still advertised a specific route non stop (to somewhere in Canada I recall), whereas it was impossible. I do not know about the veracity of that.

In the other hand, you've got to admit that SAA fleet acquisition is pretty heratic....

Anyway, according to Airbus database; 9 A346 are under the SAA banner:

MSN 0410 ZS-SNA with Trent 556-61 delivered 24-dec-02
MSN 0417 ZS-SNB with Trent 556-61 delivered 20-dec-02
MSN 0426 ZS-SNC with Trent 556-61 delivered 11-feb-03
MSN 0531 ZS-SND with Trent 556-61 delivered 07-nov-03
MSN 0434 ZS-SNE with Trent 556-61 delivered 18-nov-03
MSN 0547 ZS-SNF with Trent 556-61 delivered 28-jan-04
MSN 0557 ZS-SNG with Trent 556-61 delivered 28-jan-04
MSN 0626 ZS-XXX with Trent 556-61 scheduled 18-mar-05; owner ILFC
MSN 0630 ZS-XXX with Trent 556-61 scheduled 06-apr-05; owner ILFC

Both MSN 0594 & 0589 do not exist for the A340/330 family so I do not know where they got it from...
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
 
andz
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:27 pm

Belugaboy

The way the politics at SAA decide on aircraft purchases anything is possible! SAA had a domestic/regional fleet of A300 and A320 when an American took over, then the domestic and regional fleet was replaced with 738s. Granted the A300s were getting long in the tooth but not as old as the 732s they are still using! Now the airline is going back to Airbus again but the total conversion won't be complete until 2010, which is along way off and lots of time to make more decisions that make no sense to us mere mortals!

After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
andz
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:38 pm

Okay my wife spoke to her boss and he said there is an option for an additional 2 346s but no firm order has been placed.

After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
widebody
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:26 pm

0589 and 0594 have not been allocated yet.
 
Rj111
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:57 pm

The airbusses have failed for saa

I'm Sorry Imonti old buddy old pal but if you're gonna say something as profound as that you gonna have to tell us why they have failed and who told you. From the public's persective, there is exactly zero evidence supporting your claim. Infact the SAA advert i saw gave me the impression they seemed to like the A346's.

Solnabo, is the 346ER a reality or just speculation?

Yes indeed the A346ER or A346HGW as it's known, is reality and has an expected range of 7,900nm's. EK and QR being the launch customers.

Do you think a 346ER would make sense with the existence of the 345?

They're making a A345HGW too, range 9000nm's.
 
warren747sp
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:01 am

I think the SAA 346 have failed its passengers with they way they cram as much seat as possible into it with little regard for even the minimum passenger comfort and no individual air vents for fanned air.
747SP
 
andz
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:43 am

Warren, the 346 is not the first aircraft without individual air vents, in fact your namesake the good old 747SP had no air vents either. Seat pitch on a SAA 346 is a bitch it's true, but from what I've heard it's no worse than others using 346s or anything else with 31" seat pitch.

Personally I prefer the 744 but times change and you either adapt or walk.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
SAA201
Topic Author
Posts: 479
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RE: Mystery Of 2 Extra A340-600's For SAA

Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:12 am

There is some good news for SAA pax:

The following comes from the SAA's acting President and CEO, Oyama Mabandla, in his column in the October 2004 Sawubona (SAA's inflight magazine)

"A few months ago, a string of letters was published in the newspapers about the service aboard SAA and, in particiular, a focus on the Airbus seat pitch. SAA has taken a bold step to revise its seat pitch to deal with the overwhelming response and feedback we have received from out valued customers in the last few months. When this process is complete, the seating in Economy Class will be much more comfortable while giving you a superior entertainment product; the baggage compartment under your seat will be adjusted to give you more room to stretch your legs; and some of the in-flight entertainment screens will be adjusted to increase viweing comfort.
All our current Airbuses will be retrofitted in line with these new specifications and all new ones will be delivered with this new configuration already in place. While our seat pitch competes well worldwide, our aim is to exceed customer expectations. we believe that this intial set is but one building block towards taking our customer service to new heights."

I wonder how these changes will affect the current seating capacity on the various aircraft and when the reconfigurations will start taking place? I have also heard that SAA be be installing the new lie-flat bed currently fitted to the A340-300 and -600's to the -200's aswell. Wonder how these changes will affect the overall capacity of the A342's. They are currently fitted out in a 42J+194Y layout. For the record the A343's are 38J+231Y and the A346's 42J+291Y.

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