PU803
Topic Author
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 1999 8:06 pm

Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:26 am

Hi all,
I saw in the forum of the site:www.salvemosaaerolineas.com (in spanish),
that Ryanair would be interesting in Pluna (may be replacing Varig).
Its real ?
A real low cost in South America.....

Ido
 
PU803
Topic Author
Posts: 139
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:42 am

Sorry:
www.salvemosaerolineas.com.ar

Ido
 
pzurita1
Posts: 1188
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:55 am

Is this a kind of joke?

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
PU803
Topic Author
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 1999 8:06 pm

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:06 am

Hi all, I also don't believe it, BUT, here is another link:

http://www.aeropuertosarg.com.ar/news/asasnews.php?action=fullnews&showcomments=1&id=108

Ido
 
757MDE
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:45 am

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:12 am

I find it highly unlikely.
Uruguay's market isn't so big, and they already got a lcc called U-Air which operates F-100.
Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
PU803
Topic Author
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 1999 8:06 pm

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:14 am

 
Summa767
Posts: 1755
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:18 am

It does not read like a joke. South America has great potential, and Ryanair plenty of inexpensively acquired new aircraft, many more options, and all coming at a rate that may become too high to juggle in Europe alone.
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:11 am

Summa767 is right. It's no joke and certainly not a bad idea. Buying a small carrier like Pluna would be a sensible starting point in an otherwise obstructionist market. Uair (formed by TAM) are not demonstrating themselves as a competitive carrier. Ok, US$49 single flat rates to all of their 6 destinations, but you have to look at their destinations first:

From Montevideo MVD:

COR- Córdoba, Argentina
CWB- Curitiba, Brazil
MDZ- Mendoza, Argentina
POA- Porto Alegre, Brazil
ROS- Rosario, Argentina
GRU- Sao Paolo, Brazil

They will only make a difference when they start flying to ASU, EZE and SCL, and ensuring they have the AEP-PDP (Punta del Este, Uruguay) route covered by December for the lucrative summer season They've also got only two Fokker 100s leased from TAM.

It depends where Ryanair would choose to base itself in South America. In Brazil, they would face tough competition from GOL, and in Argentina, they'd have fun cutting through government red-tape only to find that the existing full-fare carriers (Aerolíneas/Austral, Aerovip, American Falcon, LADE and Southern Winds) are already offering what in dollar terms translate to rock-bottom prices (e.g. AEP-USH, the longest route in Argentina, for US$200 return). Elsewhere, such as Chile, they could give a monopolistic giant like LAN a good run for the money!

Would be interesting...

Regards,

ZXV

P.S. PU803, sós uruguayo?

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
Southamerica
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:36 am

Towards the nothern part of the continent, the situation isn't very attractive to other's eye either...

To start off, it is still a mistery for everybody how the low-cost airline concept would eventually be received in the aforementioned region, in which air travel is still seen, in most cases, as a luxurious experience by those who don't travel very often.

Then we find that most of these countries (Colombia as the perfect example), for better or for worse, are extremely protective towards national airlines, and are willing to put all the necessary obstacles in foreigners' path to protect the national bubble (this, of course, had to do with LAN's change of mind towards entering the Colombian market); and if competition is accepted, then well-known traditional airlines (AA/CO/DL) are the ones who get the opportunity to break in this niche (this was discussed in a past thread when somebody asked about USAirways' possibilities to start operations in South America).

And not to mention, as LVZXV illustrated in Argentina's example, that in these countries we see plenty of markets already perfectly covered by the existing traditional airlines, offering excellent prices and full service in many cases...

So, although pretty interesting, as far as I see it, the horizon is kind of gloomy for these type of operations in some Latin American regions...



SOUTHAMERICA
 
Arcano
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:35 am

I also think Pluna would be a very interesting start for a LCC.

But let's dream for a while: why not to set an LCC based in Iquique (IQQ): modern facilities, tax free zone/city (they wouldn't pay duties for imports), stable country/economy, located next to Bolivia, Peru, Paraguay, Argentina and Brazil, enoughly northern location, good weather all year long, sourrounded by many historical sites, 2 hours away of SCL with many daily flights and even better; they wouldn't have LA right there!

It's decided, The perfect hub for conecting northen and southern South America in a LCC strategy is Iquique... (now I understand why the stupid slogan of the city is "Iquique, tierra de campeones / Iquique, champion's homeland).




Regards )( Inspired Arcano

in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2302
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:29 pm

Arcano,

Continuing in the dreaming path (although with the landing gear you mention in your signature already on earth) would IQQ provide enough O&D traffic, a good population base, and high yields to keep this carrier alive? You forgot these factors that are quite important.


SOUTHAMERICA
 
PDPsol
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:44 pm

Guys,

I really thought I'd heard it all... But, FR buying PU, or at least RG's controlling interest in PU? My god!!!

Nonetheless, in theory, this could be a rather interesting strategy. Unfortunately, as LVZXV has so correctly pointed out, operations in Argentina for anybody except for AR would be a complete nightmare! LA alone is having a dreadful time finding a way to give AR a run for their money in Argentina. As Southamerica also pointed out, Colombia, Peru and even Brazil are anything but welcoming and hospitable to foreign carriers wishing to enter their cabotage markets. The LA 'fear factor' appears to have influenced civil aviation policy throughout the region.

Until Mercosur adopts an 'open skies' regional policy and permits full control of local cabotage-rights carriers by foreign capital, I just do not see this as a viable business plan.

Nonetheless, the reality is, RG is in a major financial pickle and is, for all intents and purposes, bankrupt. I am sure they are flogging PU to anyone and everyone willing to hear their sales pitch!

BTW, I'll repeat LVZXV's question to PU803: vos sos uruguayo?

cheers,

PDPsol
 
TBCITDG
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:22 pm

Another question that comes to mind is: What happened to the talks between RG and AR regarding the Purchase of Pluna? Have the talks failed and if so, would RG prefer to maintain it's ownership of Pluna.

Arcano: I hope this doesn't put you off, but Iquique?? Would there be any money there at all for a LCC to fly back and forth? I would see a secondary Argentine city(COR) or any Brasilian city as a better option to a LCC. I know this is only a dream so let us not take offence. Just a sugestion.
 
Summa767
Posts: 1755
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:58 pm

The Low cost model is not just about not offereing free food and drink on planes. It is about getting very high productivity from staff, quick turn arounds, lots of segments flown per day, and for bigger LCC, using quantity to obtain handsome discounts on their new airplanes. So it's all about volume.

On the question that latin american passengers like to see flying as a luxurious thing, that is true to some extent. But the LCC creates demand rather than just sticking to the market already there, therefore, makes flying accessible to people who, perhaps, were not able to do it very often before.

Just last week I flew FR on a 2.5 . That was approx US$70, most of which was taxes! and that's for a return!
If I was able to fly, let's say CLO-LIM, which is about the same distance, I would be tempted to go there than if there was a starting barrier of $250.

And as for the unwillingness of latin america to welcome foreign carriers, well, it's all mostly about economics. If a Brazilian holding is going to buy 75% of Avianca, why couldn't an Irish company do the same?
 
Southamerica
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:30 am

Summa767,


I agree. But low-cost airlines, even if the adopt infra-human efforts to reach high aircraft utilisation, fast turnarounds, and all the important elements you clearly mentioned, they still work and develop themselves, just like traditional airlines, based on customers

Even if they enter creating traffic, the existing consumers are a total must because in any other way they would be working based on possibilities and not reality.

Anyway, the closest thing we have right now to a true low-cost airline is West Caribbean Airways, and at the end of the day you'll see that they are just the average traditional/legacy airline with spots of the famous low cost concept. They have fast turnarounds and high aircraft utilisation yes, but they offer full inflight service and they don't depend almost completely on internet booking, which, in my opinion, would be another obstacle for a true LCC to develop down here.

It's hard to tell, that's why I started stating that it was a totally mistery if the low-cost method would work in Latin countries like ours, but if there's any of those carriers who has the guts to venture here, they surely have to be aware that most of the people are going to be expecting good pitch, food and service between CLO and LIM (even if it's for $70 dollars, believe me, that rosy phrase that "you get what you pay for" doesn't always appear in the geniune colombian traveller's mind), they also have to take into account that local authorities will probably give them the hardest time of their lives, have to have in mind that Internet is a privelege and not an all everyday thing, and that, for better or for worse, people almost always go to a travel agency just to book a BOG-MDE ticket, instead of calling/contacting the airline directly... things, that unfortunately, are what LCCs don't want.


SOUTHAMERICA
 
PU803
Topic Author
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 1999 8:06 pm

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:53 am

hi all,

LVZVV & PDPSOL, yes

Ido
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:06 am

Read this article http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRheft/FRHeft04/FRH0410/FR0410g.htm
and you probably get the answer...
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:36 am

TDG:

I'm sure I told you before but in case you had forgotten, yes, talks between AR and RG over PU broke down some time ago. From what I remember, RG was making ludicrous requests to which AR was right to deny. AR stood to lose far more than they stood to gain. I think one of the requests was for traffic rights allowing them to fly out of AEP. A little sneaky, don't you think?

As I've said before, RG HAS done a great job with PU over the last 10 years, considering the sorry state they were in back in 1994 after 40 years of state and later military ownership. Congrats to them. However, should RG cease operations and fold, I doubt PU would survive for long unless a buyer in the form of AR, JJ or LA came to the rescue and fast. In spite of Uruguay's economic recovery (on par with Argentina's, but a year later and on a smaller scale), neither the Uruguayan Government nor the Air Force can be put in charge of them. They are so cash strapped that in 2001, the Batlle administration pulled the plug on the Air Force's military airline TAMU (of "Alive" fame...), and the Air Force itself is virtually grounded.

Thinking out loud, JJ probably couldn't come to PU's aid as I believe they already have a majority stake in LCC Uair (an airline which stands to profit enormously if only they revamped their ill-conceived network), so why set one airline against the other?

That said, with LAN showing no interest in acquiring PU, a desperate and foundering RG would probably have to accept whatever offer they received. AR hasn't lost interest for good; they are just waiting for a better deal, and I'm sure they'll get one sooner or later.

Another interesting discussion of South America. Keep 'em coming!

Saludos,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
757MDE
Posts: 1451
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:10 am

They have fast turnarounds and high aircraft utilisation yes

They don't have such a high aircraft utilisation nor turn arounds, remember the MDs parked for hours at MDE and even taxied to the hangars, not only that, but also some ATRs parked for looong times in BOG.

I agree, WCA is a kind of Colombian LCC, but among the the spots you mention of the LCC philosophy, high aircraft utilisation and turn-around times aren't applied by them yet. I guess they'll do if the manage to fix their troubles with the new routes they want to open.

As of now, I just see WCA as a totally traditional carrier with kinda low prices.
Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
Summa767
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:33 am

So according to the article FR are not interested in businesses elsewhere.

Southamerica, I agree with you that internet use in Latin America might not be as widespread as it is in Europe or the US. But it is precisely the people who use it more: Students and young professionals who might be the ones wishing to travel more often to more places with a limited budget. But do agree that in Latin America there would still have to be distribution through agancies (as Ryanair did when it began).

Here in Europe people used to expect a full service too. Even charter airlines would give hot meals included in the ticket price. Not anymore, bar Excel Airways. The main ones: Britannia and Monarch, there is food, but you have to pay for it, either onboard or booked in advance.
I myself was a esceptical of the no-frills model, but have seen it develop in front of me, and as with the 30 million other passengers that Ryanair will carry next year, and a similar number for EasyJet, I have become pragmatic.

I still prefer BA when I can (I just flew them from TXL - It was nice to have a free muffin and some coffee, but then again on FR you can also choose to have the same or a hot sandwich or a soup among other things-all available for purchase as they say-), but at the end of the day, for many of us at least, economics rule.

There is great potential in Latin America for both traditional, albeit more efficient Traditional carriers as well as the Low cost sort , and although it might take a little while, I also think that people will become pragmatic when choosing who to fly. Air Madrid is already a case to watch.

[Edited 2004-10-04 22:34:44]

[Edited 2004-10-04 22:36:24]
 
TBCITDG
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:17 am

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:35 am

LV:
Thanks for the update! I remember you did mention something about it, but not that detailed.
I am some what surprised that LA has not shown interest in PU! I woud think that they could 'indirectly' serve Argentina without having an airline there. They could "attack" AR from both sides of Argentina.
 
Southamerica
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:38 am

757MDE,


They don't have such a high aircraft utilisation nor turn arounds

I agree, WCA is a kind of Colombian LCC, but among the the spots you mention of the LCC philosophy, high aircraft utilisation and turn-around times aren't applied by them yet

Even though they do probably have that objective in mind (e.g. the same ATR they use for routes based on EOH is the same that flies back to MDE to run during the evening), that only proves my point again, we're farther from having a true LCC than what everyone thinks.

But you're right, looking closely one can easily see that Aires beats the hell out of West Caribbean when talking about aircraft turnarounds and utilisation.

---------------------------------

Summa767,

I get your point. I once again repeat what I said from the beginning, it's almost impossible to know if it'll work or not - who knows, maybe I'm in for a surprise - but lots of luck for the beginner of LCCs in northern South America, with patience, a slow process for breaking the traditional barriers, a good amount of strong publicity and with efficiency and honesty they'd probably pull it out.


SOUTHAMERICA
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:38 am

I think LCCs in S. America could succeed. Here in Venezuela the closest we have to a LCC is Laser. They operate a single DC9-32 (YV-881C) between Caracas and Margarita Island. 10 flights a day between the 2 airports. That´s 70 flights a week with a single 30 year old airplane, talk a about high a/c utilization. They offer the lowest fare between CCS and Margarita, their flights are almost never delayed and you get a small ham-cheese sandwich + beer/coke/whisky/juice/cofee. And it is only a 45min flight.

I personally flew them back in April and it was great, I will fly them again anytime. Check out my trip report
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/42564


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alan Lebeda

 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:47 am

Southamerica:

IQQ has no large population, but is a very important trade core in the area (with strong links with Bolivia) and touristic destination. It's the city with the largest development in Chile for the last 15 years... so why not?

BTW: LAN is adding a new destination in Argentina in December: Ushuaia, via Puerto Montt and Punta Arenas.

TDG: I don't see LA paying brand values they won't need. Look what happened with Avianca, so I don't think they would be truly interested in PU.

BTW, I heard a coupleof month ago that Uair was about to land in SCL. Any news?

Regards )(
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:42 am

Arcano:

IQQ really doesn't strike me as a good base for an LCC. I recognise the merits you put forth, but would they really attract consumers more than say Salta, Córdoba or Mendoza?

Re Ushuaia, are you sure it's a new destination for LAN? Back in January and February at least, LAN were stopping at USH enroute to the Malvinas (once a month) instead of the usual RGL (Rio Gallegos), and I'm sure LAN fly at least occasionally with an A320 or a 767, or are those just charter flights (check the database)? Either way, I welcome any more cross border services between Argentina and Chile, especially in Patagonia. Hopefully in return AR can start flying to the quaint city of PUQ (Punta Arenas).

Re Uair, SCL has been on their list of "future destinations" for at least 3 months, together with ASU and BUE. MVD-GRU was launched last week and EZE has been added to their current destinations (you can even book, somehow), but as I've said before, Uair mustn't lose the opportunity to silence their critics by opening up PDP-AEP and MVD-EZE in time for summer. If TAM lease them their promised 3rd and 4th Fokker 100s in time, again, it improves their chances. Remember PU will be operating 1 ATR-42, 3 B737-200, 1 B737-300 and 1 B757-200 across the River Plate all summer for as little as US$78 return--talk about "Low Cost"...

It's still early days for Uair (only 9 months old) and their low-profile has meant that few people know about them and fewer still know if their finances are healthy or precarious. I see no reason as to why the operation should have been botched--TAM was in charge--but whoever conducted the market research on initial routes (MVD-COR, MDZ, ROS) doesn't seem to have done a good job, to put it mildly. Traffic between MVD and BUE is high year-round for business purposes, so why oh why has it taken so long to inaugurate the service when the Argentine Government granted Uair the necessary traffic rights as far back as April?

Regards,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:14 pm

About Ushuaia: yes, or so LAN announced yesterday in "El Mercurio" with a full page add: "Next destination: Ushuaia Argentina", with pictures and everything, including a map of the route (this is why I know it's via PMC and PUQ). I just made a check and nothing yet at their web site as news, but I could buy a TKT, look (from lan.com):
_______________________________________
Lunes
17-ene-2005 08:30 Lunes
17-ene-2005 14:30 Santiago (SCL) USHUAIA (USH) 2 LA997
Airbus 319

Sábado
29-ene-2005 15:15 Sábado
29-ene-2005 21:20 USHUAIA (USH) Santiago (SCL) 2 LA996
Airbus 319

US$290 + tax
_______________________________________

The frequencies will be 3x: Mon, Wed and Sat. They haven't added the city yet in their destinations scrolldown, so for buying a tkt you have to choose "other cities" and then type Ushuaia.
And I thought Mount Pleasant was a weekly destination (sat), not once a month, are you sure about that?

What has IQQ that Salta, COR or MDZ? Stability...(no cheap patriotism intended...)

Regards )(
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:57 pm

Arcano:

About LAN's Malvinas flights:

They are operated 1 x weekly (Saturdays) as flight LA991 (outbound) and LA990 (return) with A320s. I don't know if the flight is strictly between PUQ and MPN, or if the actually starts/continues at/to SCL. Given the touchy nature of traffic rights, I'd imagine it's just the PUQ-MPN sector--remember K denying airspace clearance to 11 of 16 LAN's proposed SCL-MPN charter flights last summer.

Once a month LAN stops in Argentina en-route to MPN (as agreed in the 1998 treaty), which usually meant RGL. However, RGL's runway was resurfaced in January/February (genius timing, don't you think?!), and instead LAN began stopping at USH. It turned out to be a very good idea, which is why I was wondering if LAN had switched back to RGL or continued stopping in USH?
What I never understood is when LAN stopped monthly in RGL, did they stop in PUQ too or did the flight link directly with SCL and PMC instead. I was just thinking that LAN stood to make even MORE profit as the only major carrier flying between PUQ and RGL/USH, as cross-border aerial connections are otherwise poor. Do you think LADE would ever be granted operating rights into PUQ, or no because they are military?

Incidentally, flights LA997 and LA996 are the ones that also connect RGL/USH with MPN...

_________________________________________________________________

My reasoning behind COR/MDZ/SLA is primarily location. It's no good having an LCC based in close to the Andean Pact countries because they have perhaps the most impermeable markets in the region--better to focus an LCC on the Southern Cone and maybe Brazil, and approach Peru, Ecuador, Colombia and Venezuela when they are ready. Besides, many of those who fly in South America are foreign tourists, the majority of whom will have arrived through EZE, GIG or GRU, rather than LIM or SCL, which is why a Pacific coast base wouldn't make too much sense.
The challenge for Ryanair lies in outpricing existing airlines. Aerolíneas, AeroSur, American Falcon, GOL, LAB, LAN, Nuevo Continente, Pluna, SKY, Southern Winds, Uair and VASP all offer pretty remarkable fares. The only ones I would attack are TAM, TAME and Varig.
Or Ryanair could do what they've done in Europe; HQ themselves in DUB and base their fleet in STN. So maybe yes, in a South American venture they could HQ in IQQ (for tax reasons) and base their [CC-registered] fleet in COR, MDZ or SLA (all are MASSIVE airfields), with hubs too...
I just hope FR don't advertise Montevideo as Buenos Aires, Rio Grande as Ushuaia, Posadas as Iguazú, Iquique as Antogasta or Jujuy as Salta. Then yes, O'Leary would be in trouble...

Saludos,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:05 am

Just some update: RG is still in talks with IB about PU. IB is very interested in PU, and started to operate direct flights MAD-MVD (report realeased last week shows that IB load factor on this route is 80%, and IB is already considering expanding the service). There was no direct service MVD-MAD before, as PU makes this route via GIG. Lets see what will be the outcome of RG-IB talks about PU. RG-AR talks about PU indeed broke down. The RG-IB agreement could form part of the restructure process of RG, baked by the Brazilian Development Bank.

ZXV: Agree, RG did a great job with PU. It seems RG manages better third companies than themself!

PU803: Why the surprise? GOL is a successful low-cost carrier operating in Brazil. It is the largest operator of 737 next generation in Latin America, and third in the domestic Brazilian market, only behind TAM and RG. GOL will start services to EZE in December. As a result, I don't see much of a market niche for Ryanair in South America...


 
LVZXV
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:57 am

If IB acquire PU, I can only hope that they don't to them what they did to AR, AU and Viasa...

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:35 am

If IB acquire PU, I can only hope that they don't to them what they did to AR, AU and Viasa...


And LADECO, the biggest lost in Latin American Aviation!!!!!!!!!!!!!


As for GOL, has anyone any idea about this photo?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alejandro Ruiz Yañez



What is this GOL doing in Pudahuel?

Regards )(
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:47 am

Actually, after a closer look I just realized that this photo is wrongly labelled; it's not SCL.

Maybe GIG???

Regards, )(
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
LVZXV
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Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:03 am

Que tal Arcano, looks like GIG to me, judging bythe towers.

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
Derico
Posts: 4209
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:08 am

MDZ pros for a LCC:

Seen as one of the most stable provinces in Argentina according to Newsweek Magazine, CNN Travel, EU TV, etc. Fiscally responsible gov. One of the few provinces where radicals & peronists have alternated power smoothly (+ for Stability)

Unemployment @ 10% (lowest in the big cities). Poverty lower than the national average, more people in the middle class. GNP decreased less in the recession & expanding faster than the national average (+ for larger local consumer base)

In 1980 Mendoza was behind Rosario, Mar del Plata, La Plata & par with Tucuman in the interior. Now investors see Mendoza as the third most lucrative investing location after BsAs & Cor. The local wine industry has taken off, the oil refining/exploration sector is booming, & there's a new high-tech sector. Mining is starting to grow (+ for potential biz travel = $$)

Most importantly, TOURISM. Now every other weekend capacity is filled. One of the few areas in ARG with both WINTER & SUMMER tourist seasons: skiing an adventure sports with Aconcagua nearby. The vendimia is now an international attraction (+ for lots of tourists from Europe & US)

Chileans and Argentines LOVE Mendoza: walk the downtown, ride the trole, go to the parks, eat a barbecue, shop or watch movies at the suburban malls (+ for tons of local tourists)

Mendoza Capital has become a major city for Congresses and summits, just this month I've lost count on how many events have taken place. There are people in town from Viedma, Humahuaca, Chaco, Santa Fe, Bahia Blanca, even Mexico, Ecuador, Venezuela with the Women's Issues Summit (+ for group travel, even charters)

Mendoza has nearly 1,000,000 people in the metro area, plus 130,000 in the nearby area of San Martin-Junin. PLUS a potential 150,000 more in San Rafael three 1/2 hours away and 450,000 in San Juan two hours away (+ for population)

It has the stability and economic growth of Chile/Santiago close by, which helped a lot in 2002 when the rest of the country's economy fell flat. Now, it has that PLUS Argentina's surprisingly strong economic recovery. Strategically placed between Santiago, Cordoba and Buenos Aires on major highway routes (+ for location)

GREAT, CLEAR WEATHER YEAR ROUND: few fogs, rains, or snows, or even clouds (+ for aviation OPS)

Need I say more?

If well thought out and cleverly grown with a long term view, a low cost would be perfect at MDZ.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
User avatar
tavong
Posts: 688
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:25 am

Well in Fact GOL is the only "true" LCC in Southamerica (and that's mainly cuase the brazil market is quite different from the other cutries), the other airlines are jut has said Legacy carriers with bits of LCCs, in fact excepting (maybe) Brazil i also tend to think that there is not much place for LCCs in Suthamerica, the airports are hell expensite nad taxes too high, even if the "Starting Airline" in question uses the Ryanair model i don't think that they could make the fares so attractive that the passengers would shift easily from the "traditional" carrier" to the "new LCC" in my opinion the wont succeed in the same way they arte doing in Europe/USA


Gus
SKBO

Just my opinion......
Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot more happy.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:27 am

Arcano:

I also think the photo is actually in GIG!

Tavong:

Also agree. I think that Brazil is the only country in South America with the size and market condition to accommodate the needs of a truely LCC. GOL is such an example! I's amazing what GOL is doing, and it does not stop to grow. In a few year's time it became the largest operator of 737 next generation. ILC has a 20% stake in GOL, which gives it a major leverage; in June/04 GOL successfully completed the launch of its IPO.

As a result, I dont see any chance to set up another large-scale LCC operator in the region, as GOL is filling the gap quite quickly and efficiently. We can now expect GOL to go international, starting from Argentina!
 
Arcano
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RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:31 am

Derico:

How could Chileans not like Mendoza??? It was founded by Chileans ad was Chilean till the creation of the Virreinato de la Plata!!!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Now serously, after thinking of your idea, I have a doubt: Does Plumerillo (MDZ airport) have enough room/facilities for being a HUB? I was there last year and I don't think they were able to handle more than 3 732 at the same time (am I wrong???).

Actually, that's an issue for placing out Latin HUB. I think AEP is one of the few airports for... or maybe this would be the perfect excuse for saving Los Cerrillos (ULC).

Regards )(

Edit: Derico, de vuelta en Mendoza??

[Edited 2004-10-11 21:47:39]
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:25 am

Derico:

So now try to imagine a real LCC (GOL 737) approaching the MDZ International HUB  Smile


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Photo © Fabio Laranjeira
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Photo © Fabio Laranjeira



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LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:12 am

Arcano:

How could Chileans not like Mendoza??? It was founded by Chileans ad was Chilean till the creation of the Virreinato de la Plata!!!

...and Chile was part of the Virreinato de Lima. Excuse my ignorance, but what's all this talk of "Chile" and "Chileans" in colonial times? I don't remember them existing long before independence. Anyway, who does Mendoza belong to now?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Sorry, couldn't resist, my patriotic deed for the day!

MDZ is in a fairly open area, boasts a long runway, and plenty of room for expansion. If it needed to grow, it could be done.

Saludos de tu amigo argentino que ama a Chile!

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

RE: Ryanair To South America?

Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:36 am

Excuse me, we are talking about the

Capitania General de Chile


Semi-Independent colonial territory, with some dependence of LIMA, since we decided the Virreinato de la Plata was not reliable enough! I see my ancestors were right... and what was the Virreinato de la Plata? A lot of territory stolen from the Capitania General de Chile (Why do you think Santiago del Estero is called lijke that and after whom do you think Mendoza was founded? Sorry, couldn't resist, my patriotic deed for the day!

Come on, please be serious!
As for MDZ, yeah, we have room, but would any potential LCC do the investment? would be nice though! but now, let's better save ULC by setting a LCC, after all the Bicentennial project is not certain right now!

Regards hermano, ya sabes cuanto admiro a tu pais...
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346