UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

Why Doesn't AA Start MIA-JNB Or MIA-CPT?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:24 am

AA has the closest hub to South Africa in the US. Why not start a daily MIA-JNB flight? Seems there is little to no competition on this route, and AA passengers could easily transfer to flights heading up the east coast, and to the west from MIA. So why not put a 772ER on the route? Would also like to see ORD-HKG, DFW-KIX, DFW-PVG, DFW-PEK, but I'm probably just dreaming.


UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Why Doesn't AA Start MIA-JNB Or MIA-CPT?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:29 am

JFK is a closer hub to JNB than MIA, and about the same distance to CPT.

I don't think AA's 777 is the ideal plane for these extremely distant routes without a stopover...

N
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Why Doesn't AA Start MIA-JNB Or MIA-CPT?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:32 am

One reason is that expansion is risky, especially on unproven long haul routes....the routes that you mention would require SA)">AA to go out and purchase/lease many more 777s. In these difficult times, most airlines are taking a conservative approach.

You are likely to see several of the routes mentioned in the near to midterm future....SA)">AA does have some new and/or unused authorities to the Pacific. Re the South African services, I have read that SA)">AA has studied routes out of MIA to CPT and JNB and SA)">AA could probably make the routes work, but it is risky - SA is very, very far away and the potential is limited so SA)">AA will likely place its resources elsewhere.

However, anything can happen......CO plans to fly to Lagos, something that very few expected!
 
Trolley Dolley
Posts: 548
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2000 1:57 pm

RE: Why Doesn't AA Start MIA-JNB Or MIA-CPT?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:33 am

If you check the distances, NYC is closer by great circle route to JNB than MIA. 8061mi vs 7982 mi. I understand the point for easier connections for those living outside the main markets.

I don't know if the higher US carriers costs would stand up to the lower yields that Africa has. New Zealand lost its US carriers because of this factor. It would have only limited on carriage with BA's regional services as SAA is joining Star.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Why Doesn't AA Start MIA-JNB Or MIA-CPT?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:38 am

I don't know if the higher US carriers costs would stand up to the lower yields that Africa has.

Africa is a high-yielding market.

JFK is a closer hub to JNB than MIA, and about the same distance to CPT.


True, though MIA is a better connecting point.

American Airlines has looked into operating to South Africa from Miami. There is a very large market here, in both connecting traffic and local orgin & destination traffic. The biggest problems are that it is stretching the limits of their 777s and that, while a Miami-South Africa route would probably produce strong yields and load factors, it is still an initial risk, one that they don't want to take at this time. Maybe in the future. And if AA becomes a 7E7 customer, I think this is the perfect route for it.

I do think that if any US carrier goes to South Africa, then AA from MIA is the most likely canidate. Not soon, but maybe 3-4 years from now it can happen.
a.
 
kim777fan
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:47 pm

RE: Why Doesn't AA Start MIA-JNB Or MIA-CPT?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:39 am

According to the "Great Circle Mapper," JNB is 92 miles closer to JFK than MIA. CPT is 130 closer to MIA than it is to JFK. The most direct route on any of these routes is doable with 180-minute ETOPS, but not with 138-minute clearance.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Why Doesn't AA Start MIA-JNB Or MIA-CPT?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:51 am

I don't know if the higher US carriers costs would stand up to the lower yields that Africa has.

Guess that's why many of the Euro-airlines (chief among them Air France) derive their highest individual profits from African destinations  Laugh out loud




CO plans to fly to Lagos, something that very few expected!

Are you kidding? Some have been pining for that for yearrrrrrss... particularly had it been nonstop from IAH.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
texdravid
Posts: 1394
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

RE: Why Doesn't AA Start MIA-JNB Or MIA-CPT?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:18 pm

UAL747,

Man, you dream like me. However, wake up now!!

DFW-KIX previously done, but withdrawn after 9/11?

DFW-PEK, DFW-PVG...not a chance!! How many people would be on this flight? The crew?

Dont' depend on AA or DFW for anything...take it from me...

Cheers
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
richardw
Posts: 3131
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: Why Doesn't AA Start MIA-JNB Or MIA-CPT?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:50 pm

I think there is a DL/SAA codeshare flight from ATL-CPT with a stop in Africa somewhere, not sure if it is a high yielding route though.
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Why Doesn't AA Start MIA-JNB Or MIA-CPT?

Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:48 pm

I could see DFW-HKG long before DFW-PEK or DFW-PVG
Go big or go home
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Why Doesn't AA Start MIA-JNB Or MIA-CPT?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:40 am

I don't think the 777 has the range for DFW-HKG, maybe with severe payload restrictions, but I could be wrong.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Why Doesn't AA Start MIA-JNB Or MIA-CPT?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:14 am

DFW-KIX previously done, but withdrawn after 9/11?

Nope. That route was killed when AA lost a major cargo contract which kept it alive.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: Why Doesn't AA Start MIA-JNB Or MIA-CPT?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:37 am

AA will be in China next year. I don't know why they aren't flying out of JFK or MIA to JNB. I think the only domestic flying is the codeshare that SA)">DL and SA have. Would love to see SA)">AA flying to JNB!!!

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Why Doesn't AA Start MIA-JNB Or MIA-CPT?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:47 am

AA could be in China next year but its still iffy. SA)">CO could easily win.

SA)">DL and SA will be abandoning their codeshare as SA becomes part of *A.

N
 
SHUPirate1
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: Why Doesn't AA Start MIA-JNB Or MIA-CPT?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:50 am

Gigneil-So where is that ATL-JNB nonstop going to be moved to, CLT? God, spare the world (and spare SAA's balance sheet)...
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Why Doesn't AA Start MIA-JNB Or MIA-CPT?

Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:01 am

Gigneil-So where is that ATL-JNB nonstop going to be moved to, CLT? God, spare the world (and spare SAA's balance sheet)...


IAD almost definitley. There has been talking it may be split between IAD and MIA, though, but most likely just IAD.
a.

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