Jano
Topic Author
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Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:36 am

Northwest Airlines plane catches fire after emergency landing at Tokyo; no injuries
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/041004/ap/d85gi3681.html
The Widget Air Line :)
 
toltommy
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:38 am

Well thank goodness there were no injuries.

I assume the plane is still under warranty?  Big thumbs up
 
drerx7
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:01 am

Explains why that flight was cancelled then.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
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PA110
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:13 am

Ouch! Brand new A330... just replaced the vintage DC10 service from SFO. That will hurt!
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
Thrust
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:25 am

This no way for a brand new airliner in the fleet to start its career off. What is its registration? You do know that this has to be an A332. And when somebody knows, is the aircraft going to be flyable again?
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
Korg747
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:27 am

Here is a video of what appears to be gear problem....

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/2004/10/04/v20041004000137.html

[Edited 2004-10-04 21:30:32]
Please excuse my English!
 
EMBQA
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:31 am

Hot Brakes.... No Biggie
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
aerobalance
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:36 am

I wonder what the engine problems were..

I'm so tempted to rant on like the anti-777 folks do, but I digress...........
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
Korg747
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:43 am

Boeing7E7,
You have to look at things in a fair way. I'm sure the DC-10 gave NWA some nice issues when it went into service the first times so that's not a boeing/airbus issue. What's interesting though is that all the 777s that had engine trouble lately had PW engines if I Remember correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong). This A330 has PWs too...so what's up with the reliability of the PWs? especially the PW-40XX versions.
Please excuse my English!
 
gigneil
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:52 am

We obviously need details.

N
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:54 am

Delayed our flight for :30 as we were waiting to take off from NRT.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
whitehatter
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:59 am

To me it sounds like hot brakes from a maximum weight landing with no reverse thrust selected. Which is what the captain would do if there is engine trouble.

Remember those great 777 videos of the rejected takeoffs and the white-hot brake discs?

As for recent 777 problems with engines, all three variants have shown up recently so it's not an exclusively Pratt problem. It's just the way of things. Sh1t happens as they say....
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
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4everRC
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:05 am

&@%#^@%#^*&@$%#&^!!!!!!!

I was off work early to go see it at SFO when it got here!
Nobody served our republic like Republic!
 
jc2354
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:17 am

Was this the inaugural flight?
If not now, then when?
 
Greg
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:36 am

Well..that's a whole lot of nothing!
.
.
.
.
.
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AA737-823
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:52 am

Someone above posted something interesting, which raises a few questions in my mind...

"Remember those great 777 videos of the rejected takeoffs and the white-hot brake discs?"

Yes, I DO remember them, and that's just the point. In the triple seven tests, the brakes did not catch fire. In the Airbus widebody tests, they DID catch fire- remember the pics on this site of the A346??? Go check them out...

Talk about egg on face.

The issue here to me, folks, is not engine trouble, as that happens. All three suppliers to the 777 have had troubles, and the A330 as well. Certain gliders come to mind, thanks Rolls Royce.

Just thought I'd mention that...
 
airxliban
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:58 am

Shoulda bought an Ilyushin...
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:02 am

AA737

So you definitely know the brakes caught fire? Can you provide a link? Or was it just smoke from overheated components and tyres? I presume having four axles and eight main wheels to spread the braking force over against the 777's six/twelve is irrelevant too?

As for your Rolls Royce comment, that was a fuel line/maintenance issue and not an engine malfunction.

Egg on face indeed...  Insane

[Edited 2004-10-04 23:04:39]
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
airxliban
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:10 am

Certain gliders come to mind, thanks Rolls Royce.

Just noticed this. The Air Transat incident was a maintenance error and had not nothing to do with an error. The TS maintenance team had put a fuel line from another model which did not fit the Trent 772B-60 on C-GITS correctly.

As a result, the line scrapped and rubbing against other parts and eventually severed over the atlantic, causing the aircraft to dump 37,000 gallons of fuel into the atlantic.

All to do with faulty maintenance.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
DTWINTLFLYER
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Em

Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:29 am

Hot brakes....let's all get up in arms about the A330! Yes, it is a big deal, but not this big. It isn't like it hasn't happened to similar a/c in the past (and I think the topic headline is a bit of a stretch)
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Em

Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:35 am

Eh get over the stupid anti-Airbus pro-whatever crap, I think they'res more important things to discuss. Will this seriously effect NW's ETOPS ability, and if so, will that effect their near-term route planning with the A330?
 
neilalp
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:28 am

I think everyone is reacting the way they are b/c it was a brand new plane and it provides a bad image for NW.
 
azjubilee
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:57 am

Another nice airliners.net thread where nobodsy knows what the heck they're talking about. Big deal! Teething pains happen all the time with new planes.


AZJ
 
afay1
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:51 am

Yes, it is another reason to buy Ilyushin. Anyway, sh*t happens, engines have trouble, tires catch on fire. OK, so the 777's usually don't, doesn't mean the A330 sucks or is unsafe, just costs the airlines some $$$. Anyway, the DC-10 had the whole "engine falling off inflight" problem at the beginning not to mention others....
 
NWADC9
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:15 am

I watched the clip, and it doesn't look like a fire and just a reflection. BTW, could someone translate what they were saying?
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
iowa744fan
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:33 am

AirxLiban,

Took a little while to compose myself after that one! Thanks for giving me a great laugh!  Smile
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:11 am

If you ask me they should bring back the VC10.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
airxliban
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:41 am

Iowa744fan,

i'm glad you had a good laugh but what are you talking about?
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
NWFltAttendant
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:27 am

Wow... im still looking here for substantiated information instead of this crap of 'oh i heard this from a person who works down the hall who sits next to the person who dealt with it' crap that is 98% fantasy. Can someone actually provide some useful information at once ! If you dont know what happened, DONT MAKE IT UP AS YOU GO ALONG  Nuts
Go yakkin !!!!!!
 
whitehatter
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:42 am

Eh get over the stupid anti-Airbus pro-whatever crap, I think they'res more important things to discuss. Will this seriously effect NW's ETOPS ability, and if so, will that effect their near-term route planning with the A330?


Nah. It's an extremely common occurrence which happens to all airliners and engine manufacturers.

Nobody died, the aircraft will presumably be back flying as soon as the engine trouble has been rectified, and the scorched brake parts inspected and new tyres fitted if needed. Which is probably where the smoke came from. Tyres are expendables which are designed to take the punishment.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
ua777222
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:44 am

As long as the flight is on the ground and no one other than the a/c was damamged then the a/c did its job. The statment $HIT HAPPENS can and will go for all a/c out there. Be it a Boeing, Airbus, Ilyushin, Cessna, etc. What counts is that no one was hurt. Sure a bad start isn't going to help anything but a bunch of dead people isn't going to be any better.....

Tip my hat to the crew and the A330 (As anti-Airbus as I am)

Thanks Again

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
flybynight
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:08 pm

I wonder if NW has extra engines at Narita. I would guess so since it is a hub. Hmm, if not, maybe there will soon be pictures of a 5-engine 747 or a 3-engine A330 (or I guess a 4-engine DC10!) flying to Tokyo.
Heia Norge!
 
whitehatter
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:16 pm

If it does need a swap, then the Antonovs will probably be gracing Narita. They seem to have the handle on engine ferry flights lately.

I don't think the 747 can carry engines which it isn't designed to use itself. So a 747 ferry flight would be out. A NW 747F could possibly handle one depending on the size of the packaged engine (that would be worth having a look at out of interest...whether the 747F can accomodate one. I would think so)
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
ana767
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:29 pm

I couldn't understand every word from the NHK video clip, but they said that Northwest flight 28, an Airbus 330, to San Francisco had to return to the airport due to engine trouble and that smoke started emanating from the left side of the aircraft due to quick braking. There were no injuries. The first lady basically said that the experience was scary and the second told about a strange sound and smell. There will be an investigation.
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:31 pm

Can somebody say: BRING IN THE DC-9s

::Ducks under the table::

All you gotta do is add a few extra fuel tanks.  Smile

::Hides under the table::
Puhdiddle
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:14 pm

A whole lot of you people here are being rediculous! And the media is just as bad too!

Ok, so the flight crew notices something irregular with an engine shortly after take-off.
Its SOP on any flight, especially a Trans-Pacific ETOPS flight to return if there is a problem. This is a complete non-event at this point. There are numerous diversions everyday of the week by any given airline on any given aircraft for any given fault on and given system.

Thus a fully loaded flight from NRT to SFO is going to have to dump some fuel in order to land, again standard operating procedure.

Hard landing with a heavy A330 with reverse thrust not available.....again a standard procedure, but has the potential to heat up the brakes.

Thus, this would have been a complete non-event other than the airport crash and rescue was needed to cool down the brakes and landing gear and it is possible there may have been some flames, maybe not. Harding catching on fire though.

Now everyone is jumping to all sorts of crazy conclusions and placing the blame on:
1) Northwest
2) Airbus
3) Pratt & Whitney

Now all of you step back a sec..... and put the situation in perspective.
How are some of you already saying they need an engine change???? It could be something completely minor. This no way reflects on any of the above parties in a bad way. Its a little bit of dumb luck that this happened, but with any sort of equipment or machinery there is always a break-in period where there is a stastically higher probability of defects or problems, then it significantly decreases.

NW will likely do some creative scheduling with its aircraft availability out of NRT to cover all the flights tomorrow. NRT-SFO will go with some aircraft. Whether that means pulling it from another flight or using different equipment something will occur.

Its safe to say this has been blown way out of proportion by many people.
 
afay1
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:22 pm

The 747 can indeed carry an extra engine, do a search of the database and you'll find examples. It looks pretty cool, must cause some pause on the part of the passengers, and cuts down on fuel efficiency....
 
LEARJET23
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:34 pm

747 was built to ferry an extra engine on a special pod if needed. I saw an example of this in a 1968 Boeing Co. drawing. The plane was not yet out, and this was I think an option or something that could be done if a heavy lost one in the tullies. This was before a cargo plane (747) and other wide bodies were in they skys, anyone with a drawing of this please help out. I remember Delta had a special Martin 404 that had a huge cargo door on the side, and it was able to carry a complete DC-9 enjine as well as a full maintance crew in the event one blew out in a small town. (This happened in Charlston, S.C.)
 
spacecadet
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Em

Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:34 pm

The 747 can indeed carry an extra engine, do a search of the database and you'll find examples.

He didn't say the 747 couldn't carry an extra engine. He said he didn't think it could carry an extra engine that it was not designed to carry. You can't just stick any engine on any airplane; the pylons are different, the weight loading is different, etc.

GE uses a 747 as a testbed and can basically fit it with whatever engine they want. But a) their 747 is specially modified, and b) I'll bet they modify the engine pylons case by case as well. I don't think you can just stick an A330 engine on a stock 747; I'm not sure which PW model the A330 uses, but I don't think it's the same as the PW engines the 747 is designed to carry.

Of course, I may be wrong on that. But the point is you misinterpreted what the guy you're replying to was saying.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
aerobalance
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:49 pm

I can't wait for a T7 to have another engine flame-out so I may witness all the Boeing-bashers jump on that one, ignorance, ignorance, ignorance.
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
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yyz717
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:06 pm

Hard landing with a heavy A330 with reverse thrust not available.....again a standard procedure

Why can't reverse thrust be used on a heavy landing?

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
JMChladek
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:54 pm

Well, if its reverse thrust on a heavy landing with one engine shut down on a twin engine aircraft, then that could cause a bit of a problem with assymetrical thrust. So, its safer to just use the brakes hard rather then risk the plane ending up sideways. If both engines were operating, then reverse thrust isn't a problem as the thrust is balanced between both sides of the aircraft.
 
syncmaster
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:57 pm

"Why can't reverse thrust be used on a heavy landing?"

I could be wrong...but I think what he meant is that if they had engine problems (which is what people are saying was the problem) then the R/T was not an option for this landing.

Anyways....

Seriously people, I'm willing to bet that NW, P&W, and Airbus will all be doing their own investigation of whatever magnitude that they so choose. They will find the problem, they will solve the problem. This is not the first time that something like this has happened, and this is exactly why they have all of the redundancies they do. This is also exactly why they test all of those redundancies. Let them conduct their investigations before any of us speculate on what happened.
 
greaser
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:16 pm

After this incident, i wanna know...
Do airlines pay for the emergency services after?? is there a surcharge for the delayed flights???
Now you're really flying
 
Carpethead
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:59 pm

I just read that Airbus designs its aircraft so that it doesn't need to dump fuel. Therefore, the NW 332 made a high gross-weight landing that would cause excessive braking and therefore some smoke. Probably some ATC controller freaking out and the fire department being called in.
Better to be on the safe side.....

NW whether it be A330, 747, 744 or DC-10 = engine fire/engine troubles. I had two of them on the last couple of flights.
Nothing changes even with new technology.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:02 pm

"NW should bought the T7"

"A330 is crap...their loss!"

Grow out of the sandbox, my us-fellas  Big grin Nothing like that could ever happend to the T7!!! *coff* History will tell U otherwise....

Micke/SE  Insane
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
N79969
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:00 pm

The plane was not on fire. It just had really, really hot brakes and kicked off a ton of steam. It was pretty minor incident in the big picture.

Solanabo,

Why don't you take your own advice? No one said the A330 is "crap" besides you. Not a good idea to put words in the mouth of others.
 
boeing764
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:04 pm

Smoking brakes after a high weight landing are indeed common on aircraft equipped with carbon brakes. Have a look at this A300ST landing at Hamburg using heavy braking because of a restriction against using reverse thrust.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Robert Budde


Last year, while I was working as a Station Attendant for Air Canada at YYC, an A340 taxied to the gate with the brakes on it's right main gear on fire. We were very concerned but the maintenance engineers told us not to worry. The brakes were allowed to cool down, then checked and as I recall no further action was taken.
BTW, I was going to go to Narita on Monday to do some plane spotting but cancelled my plans because of the rain.
From Dr. King's America to Nelson Mandela's Africa, the journey of equality moves on.
 
WJA73G
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:59 pm

This happens all of the time, remember the WS 732 in YQR? Everyone made a huge fuss over it but it was really, nothing.

When a situation like this is tended to in an appropriate manor, it is never a problem. Congratulations NW on getting everyone off safely.

WJA73G
 
Btblue
Posts: 528
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RE: Northwest Airlines Plane Catches Fire After Emerge

Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:09 am

>HlywdCatft

>Thank God no one got hurt in this...


>Maybe Northwest should consider the 7E7 a little more now.

Why? Because the brakes heated up? Big deal. How about they consider an A330 with 7E7 braking technology? Jesus!

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