N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Why No WN Red-eyes

Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:44 pm

Can anyone tell me why Southwest does not fly red-eyes? B6 has had a lot of success with them and even the high fare airlines can fill them.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Why No WN Red-eyes

Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:53 pm

This topic comes up regularly, and just did so a couple of weeks ago. You might try a search...  Big grin
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why No WN Red-eyes

Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:59 pm

Consider me Verucca Salt. "Give it to me now!!"

Oh, and I checked. No go. Now I know you can help OPNL

[Edited 2004-10-06 09:03:22]
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Why No WN Red-eyes

Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:09 pm

Interesting question - a couple of thoughts -

1. JetBlue operates a lot of redeye flights not by choice, but because of a limited amount of aircraft. In the rush to open new markets and add service, many of JetBlue's flights operate at less than optimum times....pax looking for low fares have not seemed to mind, but as JetBlue adds more aircraft, look for redeye flying to be reduced, or atleast, for traditionally timed flights to be added in some markets. Southwest, on the other hand, has lots of aircraft to allocate to its routes, and Southwest's fleet is already well utilized over the course of each day. Also remember that most pax on redeyes are there because of lower fares and/or there was nothing else available......to save a couple hundred dollars per ticket, pax will fly at unusual times! Higher fare business travellers tend to avoid redeyes, except in certain markets like the transcon flights.

2. Many of JetBlue's redeyes are on transcon flights, a niche that JetBlue as done surprisingly well with.....transcon is a market where redeyes will work due to timezones and segment length. Westbound, a late departure (say at 900PM allows for a full working day before deparute and a late arrival, but not at such a crazy time. Eastbound is ideal for many, late departure, arrival in time for the next business day. Same can be said for westcoast-Hawaii flights. Southwest is just getting into the transcon/longer haul markets where redeyes make sense and have demand....leaving Oakland at 1000PM and getting into JFK at 600AM is different than leaving Midway at 1130PM and arriving in Baltimore at 245AM for example.

3. Long ago, traditional carriers offered more redeye flights when point to point flying was emphasized more....these flights were ususally sold at cheaper fares (20 to 25 per cent discount) at had cute names like night coach, deluxe night coach, owly birds, etc. For example, I remember when EA, NA and DL each had flights from JFK, LGA and EWR to MIA and FLL departing at around 900PM...and the flights were packed especially on weekend evenings (especially NA 601 out of JFK at 905PM with a 747!). Nowadays, with the greater emphasis on hubs, late flights are less popular since its very difficult for an airline to run a complete bank of flights at a profit at late hours......pax in most markets are not that interested in the late departing/arriving flights.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why No WN Red-eyes

Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:24 pm

I know how red-eyes work. Southwest flies many Transcons, including LAX-BWI, OAK-BWI, LAX-MDW (which can operate as a red-eye)
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Why No WN Red-eyes

Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:38 pm

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1739856/4/

You'll find more if you serach the archived threads...

That'll be $87.50

(I've always wanted to turn the tables and bill a lawyer..)  Big grin
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
deltaflyertoo
Posts: 1479
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 3:18 pm

RE: Why No WN Red-eyes

Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:41 pm

Oh heck, I contributed to this last time, I'll add again...here are some reasons why:

WN gets HUGE a/c utilization during day, these a/c need the night to get their sleep (i.e. maintenance checks, etc.)

WN is point to point, there aren't a lot of situations where the 737s land at the end of the night and need to be turned around that same night to be used on a flight the very next morning on the east coast. There system evenly allocates planes throughout the system so that each morning their is an a/c allocation for the flight assigned.

They don't operate hubs or banks persay. Therefore there is no need to sale flights at night that are transferring pax to waiting flights the next morning in BWI, PVD, PHL, FLL etc.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why No WN Red-eyes

Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:47 pm

They do, however, operate connections, so it could make sense for CA-FL flghts. I do see the thing about MX though.
I searched the archives, but did not get anything. I guess I am too used to Westlaw
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss

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