work4bmi
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2002 9:51 am

Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:36 pm

bmi to launch Heathrow-India services

bmi, the UK’s second largest full-service scheduled airline, today confirmed its plans to launch services from Heathrow to Mumbai and from Heathrow to Bangalore, following the recent agreement between the UK and Indian governments to allow extra flights between the two countries.

bmi has formally confirmed its plans to the UK Department for Transport, which is now expected to require the Civil Aviation Authority to hold a hearing to allocate the 21 extra flights per week granted to British airlines.

Sir Michael Bishop, chairman of bmi, said:
“We have long campaigned for greater access to long-haul markets for bmi’s award-winning services. bmi has actively sought to bring about changes to the bilateral agreements in existence between the UK and India. We are now able to demonstrate our commitment to serving this important market.

"Our short-haul network at London Heathrow means we can offer onward connections throughout the UK and Europe, bringing the benefits of these connections with India to even more customers.

"Our attempts to introduce greater customer choice to other long haul services from Heathrow, such as to the USA, continue to be frustrated through restrictive bilateral agreements. The opportunity for an increase to the number of services in the UK to India market should provide bmi with the opportunity to meet that demand.

"We are ready, willing and able to provide these extra services and with it vigorous new competition – and
Fly Around The World : Above & Beyond
 
HUYfan
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:37 pm

I seriously hope this will have no effect on the Bmi MAN longhaul services. Where are Bmi going to get the a/c?

Regards

Mike
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:46 pm

This is indeed good news - new carriers and frequencies are desperately needed on this route and bmi will be welcome.

However, its is a bit strange that bmi want to launch flights from LHR, when they can provide North American connectivity, which is a very important consideration for almost all European carriers out of India.

All of bmi's NA flights are out of MAN, so unless they get UA and AC to take the pax onwards, it might be difficult.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:47 pm

Before any of this becomes reality, they'll have to make sure they can get their hands on one of the extra frequencies that are being progressively allowed by the updated UK-India bilateral. I guess that BA and VS are also very much vying for these rights, with BA possible having the best cards because no problems with Heathrow slots and no problems with available airframes to operate the flights.

As for the 2 others, BD is likely restricted with only 3 widebodies available so if they are granted the rights, these services might very well be detrimental to their MAN longhauls. VS, on the other hand, might face a problem securing Heathrow slots for these services.

 
thowman
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:51 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:50 pm

Good news.

However, I hope they are going to recruit more call centre staff to cope with the demand.

I too think it is strange they are going for LHR. Surely they'd be better making their main hub MAN and concentrating from there?

Are plans to acquire another 330?
 
kaitak
Posts: 8935
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:20 pm

Good luck to them; they'll wait to see what frequencies they get before deciding on what equipment they'll get. A330s will be difficult to come by, but perhaps A340s might be considered?

Of course, the problem is, where are they going to get the slots? Will we see more domestic slots being lost, perhaps some services being cut to Leeds, Inverness, Belfast etc.?
 
BestWestern
Posts: 6998
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:38 pm

I expect it to go 1xBA 1xVS 1xBD.... and same next year. The 330's were originally ordered for Heathrow services, and since BD are still losing their shirts on IAD and ORD, I expect one of these to go first (IAD)
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
WindowSeat
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:01 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:39 pm


Good to hear that BMI is going to India. With a decent European network and its UK flights BMI is in a better position to capture the India-Europe market than VS, although it will face competition from BA. That being said, there is enough O&D traffic between the two countries (India-LHR) to sustain two more carriers on the route.

Another consideration they should give is if they serve India-MAN (currently no one flies BOM-MAN nonstop) not only will they have the O&D traffic but also a fair share of the India-US market(with their connecting flights to the US) which is a much stronger market with higher yields.

Work4bmi,

Any idea when the allocution of routes will take place? I'm sure VS and BA will put their best feet forward (and hope BMI stumbles) to get these frequencies.

cheers



I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
AIR MALTA
Posts: 1733
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:45 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:42 pm

It is a shame that BA is not stepping up and adding frequencies and destinations to India (Bangalore, Hyderabad). 3 British long-haul airlines serving heathrow is a little bit too much to me.
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
Billy
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2000 11:18 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:56 pm

BA has also confirmed it wants to do Hyderabad and Bangalore. The decision rests with the UK Dept for Transport. All UK carriers are invited to apply for the new rights. I do not know when they will be awarded though.
 
HUYfan
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:05 pm

I thought Bmi's MAN long haul programme was proving a success these days BestWestern?

Regards

Mike
 
BestWestern
Posts: 6998
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:29 pm

HUY - nope... hence the diversification away from corporate routes into leisure markets, such as LAS.

EI are having the same problem with BWI - loss making - so lets send the aircraft where we can lose less.

I expect either IAD or ORD to go if BD get access to India from Heathrow. What you may see is a bit of both (IAD 3 weekly ORD 4 weekly)


You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
HUYfan
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:43 pm

I do not mean to be argumentative, but are you sure???? They are not 'diversifying' their original business routes to IAD and ORD are still operating, and I am led to believe the ORD route is very successful. I have to say that I would be very surprised of BD started cutting their long-haul flying out of MAN. They have an excellent product. Also, have heard the Carribbean routes are selling exceptionally well, in all classes.

Are you SURE? what is your source?

Regards

Mike
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:53 pm

BD might have a better bet tendering for services to BOM and DEL ex MAN, rather than launching services from LHR to HYD and BLR, where this is a good big market already (VS used to operate to DEL from there). Slots at LHR are a problem, I would have thought the DOT's priority would be to try and diversify towards long-haul operations from regional airports that can co-exist with existing services from LHR, rather than more directly competing services from LHR.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
WindowSeat
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:01 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:26 pm

JGPH1A,

VS still does operate LHR-DEL on Air India's unused frequencies. They do not have frequencies on their own, but that just shows you how desperate they are to get the India slots.

Just to clarify, India routes are NOT leisure destinations, they are extremely high yield routes. One of the reasons, why many European airlines are asking for more slots and when the Indian government opens up its skies in winter, they mop up the frequencies. Delta and Northwest are both flying double daily to Bombay (BOM) this winter and others have upped their frequencies. Also, many carriers now want to make money on the booming Bangalore (BLR) and Hyderabad (HYD) markets. LH is already cashing in on these routes! You can expect this market to rise and rise, there's no looking back...

I still maintain that BMI will be better off if they operate to MAN and connect to the US. But if they are after the elusive LHR slots, then have at it. Either which way they'll make money hand over fist.

cheers


I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:30 pm

My understanding is that there is either an implicit or explicit clause in the new bilateral that stresses the primary markets to be served by the new frequencies have to be 3rd/4th freedom markets rather than 5th/6th freedoms. In either case, the only slots that will be available at BOM (as per AAI's W'04 NAC charts) are not compatible with transatlantic connections, so de-facto the market served will be India-UK with EU connections only.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
STARCREW
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:04 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:35 pm

ORD is making good money, IAD is in profit as well but not as good. There is alot of belly cargo on both routes. The new routes to the Carribbean are almost fully booked already and Las Vegas is showing healthy bookings as well. The Toronto route is seasonal and operated as a codeshare with AC, again good loads this summer. The new routes are a diversification into more leisure orientated routes but not because we are loosing money ( longhaul, mainline and regional all in the black only dreaded "baby" loosing money)more because the 3rd A332 came back from SAA early and well there was nothing to do with it since LHR -US roures are still blocked.

The new routes ex LHR are subject to DOT approval. I doubt very much any aircraft will be moved from MAN. The gossip at LHR is that a pair of A340's are going to be acquired( we've been looking at these for sometime since the A332 although fantastic aircraft do lack range and have stopped us opening up routes to US west coast). The other gossip at LHR is that as well as India another new route to Johannesburg and/or Cape town (hence A340s) will be announced very shortly...
there is only ONEWORLD
 
Spike
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:08 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:39 pm

BMI are right in going to LHR. You'll see,
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:49 pm

more because the 3rd A332 came back from SAA early and well there was nothing to do with it since LHR -US roures are still blocked.


There's PLENTY to do with it other than pout about not getting US service, which is what BD has been doing.

They could have offered flights ex-LHR to other destinations, and I'm pleased they've gotten a piece of the India pie. There's really no such thing as too many frequencies to most Indian markets.

N
 
sevenair
Posts: 1486
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:57 pm

im surprised that they chose India. But Im soooo happy to see my fav. airline growing, and sreading its wings. good luck, PS-i hope they get the slots at LHR; im sure i remember them having troubles in the past
 
HUYfan
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:14 am

STARCREW, the A332s can operate UK-US west coast, no problem.

Regards

Mike
 
STARCREW
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:04 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:19 am

more because the 3rd A332 came back from SAA early and well there was nothing to do with it since LHR -US roures are still blocked.

Surprisingly gigneil yes there was nothing to do with it! The company looked at lots of destinations but most were either already served or covered by restrictive air agreements. Also MAN is the only A330 crew base and basing one aircraft at LHR would have been expensive. It did go off and fly for the RAF for a couple of months flying RAF Brize Norton to RAF Mt Stanley in the Falkland Islands via Ascension on MOD Charter. There was talk of it going onto charter but its config was too restrictive.

In the future the main longhaul hub will be LHR make no mistake. As for slots we have 14% of slots at LHR. That won't be a problem.
there is only ONEWORLD
 
Bicoastal
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:19 am

This is great for Star Alliance travellers coming from the USA on United. There will be tons of high yield business travellers transferring from UA flights from the States and flying on to India, which is a hot business destination now. Cargo and liesure travellers shouldn't be bad either.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
Spike
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:08 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:24 am

So why don't UA fly there themselves rather than sharing money that they don't have?
 
STARCREW
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:04 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:27 am

HUYfan,

Yeah it can make the west coast but with cargo payload penalties so i've been told.  Smile

[Edited 2004-10-06 17:29:05]
there is only ONEWORLD
 
BestWestern
Posts: 6998
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:48 am

Earlier this year Michael Bishop stated that

A330 operations are at a stage where "they are at a point at which they should move into a profit if the market continues to pick up"

Since then the market hasn't picked up yield wise (look at announcements from BA and LH) and the price of fuel has gone through the roof....

Also look at the language "should" and "if"

Also UA's feed from IAD has diminished considerably.


This was discussed back in May / June

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1543418


Its amazing how so many people think their favourite airline route is profitable, yet airlines are losing billions. They still think the routes are making money even when the CEO states they aren't.

You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
Spike
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:08 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:56 am

Airline companies make me laugh. One minute they are putting more seats in for revenue, the next minute they are taking more seats out for revenue. Then they do it all over again with more advertising $ spent. They are the only industry truely out of touch with their customer and v.v. Mind you, if they told the truth we'd all soon go off aeroplanes.
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:00 am

BMI will have a third Airbus free next summer. The winter Caribbean program will be completed, and Air Canada are to take up the MAN service themselves again. That should be enough to operate their India service to start with if they get frequencies.

Loads on the IAD and ORD services have been excellent all summer and look good for the winter season. IAD in particular has not been withdrawn or substantially cut back. Front cabin loads have also improved.

Bishop is notorious for playing his cards close to his chest. Whereas Sir Beard regularly boasts of his services "throwing off cash" Bishop is much more conservative in his statements.

Operating them from Manchester could be a good idea as well, considering that BD can feed the service from its shorthaul network as well as IAD,ORD and codeshares from YYZ and PHL.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:04 am

The Times (of India)'s saying that the Indian and British governments have taken the recently re-negotiated bilateral further and will allow all British carriers to fly to India and beyond, with no restriction on 5th and 6th freedom capacity, starting this winter. Designated Indian carriers too will be permitted to fly India-London and onwards to the Americas (North, Central & South) and the Caribbean with no such restrictions.

Let me see if I can find a link, since I read this in the print version.
 
AlanUK
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:56 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:11 am

Knowing that LHR-DEL is BA's second most profitable route on the network, I'm convinced they will try their hardest to get the newly authorised routes under their wings!
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:31 am

 
ETStar
Posts: 1850
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:25 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:46 am

Does the UK Department of Transport post on their website information regarding applications made by airlines? Is this info publicly available? If so, anyone have a link?
 
cloud4000
Posts: 475
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:38 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:48 am

I know I've raised this issue before, but why doesn't BMI start service to India from MAN? Given the sizable number of Indian living in the Manchester area, a MAN-DEL or MAN-BOM is not out of the question?
Boston, USA
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:04 am

There are carriers making good money out of MAN-India.

RB is offering cheap tickets via Damascus, and Emirates do well on that route. Even Aeroflot used to make good cash on a service via SVO some years back.

The carrier doing exceptionally well is Lufthansa via Frankfurt, hence the regular upgrading of the MAN-FRA leg to an A300 at certain times. To a great extent traffic has been stifled by both high fares and bilateral nonsense.

Travelling to India has been traditionally expensive from the UK (believe me I know! Sometimes a short notice ticket will be well into four figures or require business class as the Y cabins are full). This is one of the reasons why that 747SP has started appearing at MAN as Syrian can see potential in their sub-£400 returns from the UK to India.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
David_itl
Posts: 5946
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:22 am


ETStar, the CAA makes applications public on this page.

David
 
work4bmi
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2002 9:51 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:34 am

STARCREW,

Dont know who you are, but guess you for bmi  Smile

Anyway, the J'burg rumour - looks good, I know for a fact that "people" have been taking business trips to both J'burg AND singapore.

Thanks,
Fly Around The World : Above & Beyond
 
behramjee
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:07 am

1. Its highly unlikely that BMI will get the right to fly LHR-BOM/BLR as the remaining 21 slots for UK airlines will see VS getting 14 for daily BOM and DEL flights from LHR and BA getting 4 for BLR from LHR.

2. BMI would not do well competing with a 3 weekly LHR-BOM / BLR flight against competition like BA-VS-AI-LH-AF-EK-GF-QR etc etc who have daily flights to LHR from BOM especially either nonstop or via their hubs.

3. A most likely scene will see BMI fly from MAN nonstop to either BOM or DEL with its spare A 330-200 as from MAN, it can take pax to IAD-YYZ and ORD as well as many UK and EU cities nonstop. MAN is BMIs long haul hub.
 
behramjee
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:38 am

Atwonline.com reports that BMI :

1. Has applied for 6 weekly LHR-BLR flights

2. And daily LHR-BOM flights...so 13 in total out of the 21 remaining for UK carriers.

good luck to them in getting all lol  Big grin
 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:29 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:00 pm

Well I'm having to wait an extra day to get back to MAN from ORD the friday night I was is SOLLLD out.

Ive done BMI's MAN-US routes four times in 12 month and only once was it not full.
As for the caribbean... good luck even getting a ticket !!! Barbados is like 100% full on some days !!

If BMI are making a loss on this they should give up !

I'm on a £700 MAN-ORD ticket at the minute, earlier this year I was on a £800 IAD ticket, and being StarGold in UA AND starSilver in BMI I still got 34C ! seats !!!

I agree they should do it from MAN not LHR... LHR there just another india carrier, without a reputation and a small fish in the pond...

MAN is much better ! Even better if UA started a EWR and SFO - MAN routes with one of their spare 747's... US may not be providing a New York area feed to MAN if they go under !!

So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
BDSTAFF
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:19 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:34 pm

STARCREW. I think you will find that the 'dreaded baby' is not loosing money. For example, August, it was the baby division that made the most profit for the whole group. Longhaul also made a good profit followed by regional. bmi mainline made a loss! This is a similar trend in every month. This is why the group is investing so much in bmibaby by launching BHX. The board are extremely happy with baby's success!

Anyway, to the point, ORD makes loads of money, they would never cancel it!
 
LHR27C
Posts: 846
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:49 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:12 pm

Some bmi long haul services ex-LHR would be very welcome, and it is good that they are looking beyond America. They've been campaigning for a long time to relax Bermuda II and get LHR-US flights, without showing much interest in other possible long haul destinations. A bmi A330 (or two) based at LHR would be a great addition to bmi's operation at Heathrow and also the first A330s based at the airport. Hope their application is successful!
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned forever skyward
 
WindowSeat
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:01 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:34 pm



LHR27C,

There are many many airlines on both sides of the pond that want the Bermuda II relaxed. Remember, it has everything to do with London Heathrow. Even if BMI does get India slots at LHR, I doubt that they will be able to use them for US flights. So, either which way their application goes it's not going to get them any closer to LHR-US routes. A330s based out of LHR will be nice, but they will only be able to capture the India-Europe market with that. If they want to catch the India-US market they should launch India-MAN.

cheers


I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:04 pm

Even if BMI does get India slots at LHR, I doubt that they will be able to use them for US flights. So, either which way their application goes it's not going to get them any closer to LHR-US routes. A330s based out of LHR will be nice, but they will only be able to capture the India-Europe market with that. If they want to catch the India-US market they should launch India-MAN.

So true. They can do both India-NA and India-Europe if they base all long hauls out of MAN, because B2's not about to be renegotiated anytime soon.

And if there's one thing we know for sure, it's that Indians will fly any carrier that gets them to where we want to go. It doesn't matter if the lay over is in Birmingham or Baghdad!

[Edited 2004-10-07 16:19:39]
 
BestWestern
Posts: 6998
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:58 am

BDstaff - since you know what the board thinks...care to share the operating margin?

As a BD gold customer I do wish BD the very best, but it aint with Baby.

Of course Baby made money in August... peak month, Even Buzz made money in August, and boy were they going nowhere as a carrier.

But WW will lose a considerable amount of money this year - according to your CEO! And that was before the FR announcement of the EMA base - hence BMI's 'investment' in BHX. And also before the huge fuel hikes we are seeing these months.

Again, its amazing how all these routes are making so much money, yet BMI company is losing money! Name one low cost airline offshoot of an established carrier that makes money. The only one that came close was Go!, and even BA got rid of that, as it was a considerable distraction to BA.

All BD have to do is look at all the failed Low Cost carriers in the star alliance...Ask SK (snowflake), US (MetroJet), UA (ted) AC (Zip) what a stupid mistake starting a new brand is... (although UA probably wont admit it just yet).

Then they can look to SkyTeam for more examples...
KL (Buzz, Basiq), CO (lite), DL (express)

Then to oneworld
IB (Viva), BA (Go)



You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:50 am

I think HLX and Germanwings are doing well so far, and they are both offshots of lagacy airlines.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 6998
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:50 pm

HLX is basically Hapag Llyod - a charter company with a low cost base

Remember that HLX has no aircraft, and a staff base of only 40 in Yield management route planning and marketing.

For Germanwings... time will tell.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
BDSTAFF
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:19 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:04 pm

BestWestern: August was an example month, it is a regular trend. You are right, August was a peak month, record pax figures for the group. Then why did mainline loose money and all other business arms make money? Just because other star LCCs failed doesn't mean they all will. Every airline is different. Can't see baby failing when they make a profit, doesn't make business sense, does it? The difference between WW and GO is that WW do not compete against their own airline. GO was in competition with BA and GO did really well, no wonder BA got rid!

I hope BD do get the India rights, it will be a cracking route for them. Their MAN longhaul are very popular and their business service is great. Shame they can't do the transat out of LHR that they want. Never mind!!
 
thowman
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:51 am

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:32 pm

BDSTAFF

As a BD silver holder, I am please that the US services are doing well. However, I am not surprised that BD Mainline is struggling. It has a great product - as good as if not better than BA - however there are some areas that let it down.

As we have had many times before on this forum - there is an impression that BD doesn't know whether to compete with it's competitors as a business airline or a lesiure airline. Also - from a personal point of view it doesn't have a good business model when it comes to entering new markets.

Currently there are severe problems in the call centre. I spent over two hours on the phone a couple of weeks ago just trying to change a flexible ticket for a different flight - one and a half hours of this was on hold on the Diamond club line. Well, at least I am going to get refunded the £70 the calls cost me from Spain on my mobile - but that isn't the point.

In the local markets there seems to be a lack of penetration. For example, here in Spain there is no website in Spanish, no local number that BMI have to go to the call centre in the UK free of charge. Though I have discovered another number that in answered as BMI (though I suspect is in Spanair somewhere) - but the UK reps don't know about this. What chance of success is there when the route is really only being marketed at one end? Seems like basic to me in this day and age of the information superhighway for an airline to have its website in all local languages where they fly and be able to offer a full service to their customers in those countries they serve.

BMI seem to start up new routes - spend a lot of money promoting them and then deserting them. Take LHR-MAD as an example. It started off as 4 daily flights and is now down to just 1 per day. Business, well in business when I fly I am usually one of 4 people - and most of the others seem to be connecting off AC flights at LHR. I flew IB last week. I was one of 26 business class passengers on the A320 I flew on - that's where the money is!

The other thing that BD do is start one off routes to places like TFS or ALC and then run them a while and drop them. TLS has just gone. I believe BCN has gone. BMI is trying to compete not only with BA, but with the LCCs as well. They have a price structure similar to a LCC (being able to buy singles only at return prices) - but run a mainline airlines costs from Heathrow.....

BMI is trying to be too many things to too many people!

 
BestWestern
Posts: 6998
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:42 pm

"cant see baby failing when they make a profit, doesn't make business sense, does it?"

But it doesnt make a profit..... Your CEO has stated that the Baby will hopefully break-even in 2005 Not 2004. I dont want to sound rude, but either you dont know what you are talking about, or your CEO doesn't know what he is talking about. I propose that your CEO has a better feel for the operation, and expect that you would too.

He also stated this before:

Fuel price hikes,
Before FR's unexpected arrival in EMA,
Before ZB's arrival at Man,
Before Jet 2's arrival in MAN,
Before BA(GB) arrival at MAN for leisure routes
Before BA's arrival on LGW PRG
Before OK's arrival on LGW PRG
Before easyJets arrival on LGW PRG and LGW ORK

The environment has detiorated in the last eight months for WW, not improved. Profits will prove elusive for WW in 2005 in my honest opinion.



[Edited 2004-10-08 13:57:15]
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
BDSTAFF
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:19 pm

RE: Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services

Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:04 pm

BestWestern: It makes a gross operating profit. The figures do not lie. Don't forget that this financial year ends is in 2005!

Thowman: The call centre is a problem but it is in the middle of a transition to oursource it, that is why. Everyone is just leaving. Not an excuse, but that is why.

bmi want to compete in both a business and leisure market. It keeps trying different things but they give up when they are not successful. Maybe they should believe in route maturity and give it a chance (unless it is really that bad, i.e. EMAABZ and MANNWI) ALC btw is still going strong, one of mainline's successes. Just goes to show you can compete in both.


I agree that it isn't right to only advertise in the UK for the MAD route, the alliance between BA and IB has domintated though and destroyed what was a good route. An example of unfair competition maybe!?!

Just for future reference though. If you have a fully flexible business ticket, as long there is a seat left in business you can just turn up to checkin without a reservation. I used to do it when I flew on business all the time before working for the company and it was ok. Maybe give it a go. Please don't tell me off if it fails though!!!!