BestWestern
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UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:00 pm

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/041006/airlines_ual_4.html

The No. 2 U.S. carrier also said it plans to reduce its mainline fleet to 455 aircraft by next March, 68 fewer than it flew in August 2004 and a reduction of 112, or nearly 20 percent, since 2002.

It said it would increase international capacity by 14 percent and cut mainline domestic capacity by 12 percent.

"Our strategy has been to continually align our fleet size and deployment with market conditions, which are brutally competitive," Glenn Tilton, UAL chairman and chief executive officer, said in a statement.

Edited to add further news:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041006/nyw065_1.html

Tilton pointed out that the actions United is announcing are part of
United's ongoing strategy to:
-- Leverage Product Portfolio and Network: United's product portfolio and
worldwide route network give United the flexibility to put the right
product in the right market at the right price to meet customer demand
while generating a profit for the company.
-- Reduce Costs: United continues to reduce its costs to competitive
levels. The company is on track to achieve $5 billion in annual cost
improvements by 2005.
-- Deliver Operational Excellence: United continues to lead the industry
in operational excellence.
-- Focus on Customer Service and Investment: United maintains a sharp
focus on customers by investing in innovative products and services,
including expanding the availability of United EasyCheck-in and other
electronic and online ticketing and notification systems,


[Edited 2004-10-06 14:09:35]
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
NWDC10
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 112 Jets

Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:13 pm

Will the 737's go and they keep the A319/20 seies aircraft? "Tightening the belt" is good for UA. Be most efficient with certain aircraft. Robert NWDC10
 
latinaviation
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:34 pm

I am sure it is their 737-500s and 767-200s, or some combination thereof.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:35 pm

So this is described as an outright cut rather than a shifting from mainline to regional jets? Here at Manchester, NH we have whistled by the graveyard by maintaining (for the most part) our mainline flights...even graduating to the 757 on some of our 4-5 dailies. But this cutback most certainly will set us back, along with many small-to-medium cities. I'd like to say that you can't put the genie back into the bottle, so when (if) UAL decides to dump Manchester or other cities of its size, some other carrier most certainly will step in. Almost as certainly, it will be an LCC. All conjecture at this point, and maybe Manchester and all the other 'Manchesters' will whistle by the graveyard again. But I don't see how UAL can hit these metrics without it affecting us.

Chris in NH
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:02 pm

I'm thinking most of these flights will be replaced by UAX? On the other hand, UA cut a lot of flights out of MIA and other stations, so some cuts could come from there. Didn't they also cut SNA-SFO? I know that ORD-IND is being replaced by UAX anyway. This is good for UA, cut unprofitable routes and simplify the fleet. Anything that will help int'l traffic is good IMO, as that's where the money is these days.
 
drerx7
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:05 pm

Any word yet on which stations will get the reductions?
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
BestWestern
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:33 pm

Why did they cut back their LHR ops and sell their slots if they plan to grow internationally?
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
NYCAAer
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:27 pm

If they cut the fleet to 455 jets, will they have a smaller fleet than Delta?
 
DAYflyer
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:38 pm

IMO, this is a smart move. They need to consolidate fleet types to reduce costs. it would make perfect sense for them to axe the 737-500 and 767-200. They are worn out anyway and need replacement. When the time is right I'm sure they will go with more A-319/320 and then follow up with a 7e7 order down the road in a year or two.

I wish DL would look at what UAL is doing and consolidate fleet types to about 3 or 4.
One Nation Under God
 
DIA
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:41 pm

If you translate the numbers correctly, the headline is just an attention getter by the media.


Truth be told:

"The airline says the changes will result in a 3 percent overall decrease in available passenger seat miles. Officials also say international operations will account for more than 40 percent of the airline's capacity and 50 percent of its revenue." - UNITED




"I'm thinking most of these flights will be replaced by UAX?"

Most of the cut UA mainline flights will be run by United Express carriers.
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
gigneil
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:46 am

The 737-500s are extremely young compared to the 737-300s.

N
 
ltbewr
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:22 am

This proposed shift of flights by UA is interesting and hopefully will save them. They cannot really compete vs. the LCC's like WN in many shorter haul domestic markets now served mainline. Shifting to more international flights, they will probably have more f/a's & pilots based outside the USA. This could lower labor costs as those based outside the USA are not part of the labor packages, pension plans, health care insurance needed to be provided USA based crews. By shifting some domestic shorter hauls to regional connected carriers gets them out of a high cost business and lets them concentrate where most majors make their money, long haul international business.
 
frugalqxnwa
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 am

Instead of gettign rid of the 762s and 735s, could they be getting rid of the 762s and 733s? I have recently seen an A319 on the DEN-BOI route (this summer flying BOI-OMA on NW, A319 was being prepared for flight while I was waiting for my flight). Besides, the A319 and 733 are basically the same size, while the 735 is smaller, so that would make more sense to me.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:52 am

ChrisNH: I wonder the same about Upstate New York. AA ended 50 years of mainline service to BUF/ROC/SYR/ALB a couple of years ago. (I know about the AA seasonal mainline BUF-DFW, but that's not year-round) At the time we A.net Upstaters wondered whether UA would do the same thing. We already see a mixture of UA and UA Express on ORD routes. It would be sad, but not terribly surprising, if UA downgraded us to all Express.

Which would only wave a red flag in WN's face to start BUF-MDW and ALB-MDW.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
UA744Flagship
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:39 am

They are getting rid of a mixture of 733s and 735s. Lots of it has to do with leases that were not able to be renegotiated for what United wanted.

While the 735s are younger, their OCASM is higher because of essentially the same variable costs for less seats (read: 735 isn't that much cheaper to operate than the 733).
no wire hangers!
 
AF022
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:49 am

its great to see UAL be PROACTIVE, even if everything isn't working.

TED to go after domestic traffic
LUXURY B757 to go after intercontinental traffic
EXPAND international traffic.

the other US airlines are in the toilet. what are they doing?
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:59 am

Why did they cut back their LHR ops and sell their slots if they plan to grow internationally?

Are you referring to EWR and BOS? If so, it's because UA was not a strong player in those two markets, and rather than continue to take heavy losses, they put those two stations slots up for silent bid, and BA was the winner.

I fully expect to see UA continue to operate flights to LHR from SFO/LAX/ORD/IAD/JFK.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:01 am

So are they getting rid of particular routes, or decreasing frequency? Are they surrendering the West coast to LCC's?

I'd like to see HP capture some of their west coast ops.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
flybynight
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:12 am

Isn't the A319 closer in size to the 735, while the A320 is closer to the 733?

I wonder if some of the older 752's will going as well.
Heia Norge!
 
anstar
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:14 am

The A319 is closer to the 733

 
AZjetgeek
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:15 am

The moves by UA seem to be headed on the right track, which is a sign that the airline is taking seriously pressure to emerge from bankruptcy in the VERY near future.

I would also suggest, however, that they close one of their two Calif hubs. Is it truly necessary to maintain hubs at SFO and LAX? UA operates international routes out of SFO as well as many of their UAX operations. I would think they could save even more money by closing their LAX hub, but still maintain a presence there.
Long live the RJ!
 
gigneil
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:16 am

The 320 is slightly larger than a 734.

N
 
iowaman
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:36 am

God I hope they don't cut mainline flights out of DSM!
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:40 am


I would think they could save even more money by closing their LAX hub


Oh boy. I'd just grab some popcorn, sit back and watch the LAX "Gate War" begin. HP would love to get a hold of some of those gates.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
Thrust
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:44 am

Uh-oh. Could this mean UA is going to get rid of more of their Boeing 777s?
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
flybynight
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:46 am

I'm somewhat surprised SEA isn't an official UA hub. They have the entire N terminal which I believe is 20 gates.
Heia Norge!
 
An-225
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:49 am

I am thinking that 762s will be gone for sure, plus some 733s and 23 735s. 777s will be shifted to more international/interhub routes. 744s are going to some European and some Asian destinations, as well as a few interhub flights.

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:54 am

they put those two stations slots up for silent bid, and BA was the winner.


...not exactly what happened, but close enough to give the general gist  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
access-air
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Je

Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:00 am

Why dont we all wait to see what happens...So Put away your crystal balls....boys!!

Access-Air
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mymiles2go
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:06 am

On the SEA comment regarding not being an official hub. It is considered a "major precense city" aka 'mini-hub" and "international gateway".

The N terminal has 16 total gates. Of which 2-3 are US Airways, 2-3 are Alaska/Horizon. And the rest are UA/UAX & Air Canada.
 
N1120A
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:13 am

Um, UA makes money on LAX. They fly some flights out of there that no one else flies or have more capacity on them. If they moved out of there, every airline would ramp up like crazy.
They have actually been reluctant in selling the 762s because they own them all outright (same with the 744s) and can use them as leverage. I am guessing they will sell them for a final cash injection to exit 11. They could sell the 733s to WN who needs capacity and would like the fact that those are newer planes than US and some other carriers that might be selling have.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
jaysit
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:23 am

So which stations will see this glorious international expansion?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
aa777jr
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:25 am

This isn't good for UA. Hope they can restructure and come out of Chp 11.


AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
gigneil
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:26 am

This IS good for UA. They're making the right choices.

N
 
nzblue
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:21 am

Gigneil,

I agree. This probably ranks up there with one of the better things United has done during their time in bankruptcy, and is very much a good thing. We all knew a fleet reduction was probably going to have to happen, and I'm glad that United is finally getting the ball rolling on this issue. United's strength for the past couple decades has rested in their international operations and on select key routes within the United States. Now, I'm no CEO by any means at all, but if it were up to me I'd take a very aggressive stance in getting United to more international destinations much the same as we are seeing CO do. If United can play on these strongholds, then a fleet reduction pertaining to its smaller 737's makes sense.

While many pessimists may say it's time to run for the hills, this move doesn't really come off as a negative one.

Cheers!

NZblue
It's an entirely different kind of flying; all together.
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Je

Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:42 am

Put me in the column of media hype. We know almost 30 737's just were retiring. We know that the 767-200's are going with the PS aircraft on board that's 19. So we are up around 50 total. There are 68 total. There was already word about another round of lease returns next year of 737's.

For those who were asking about capacities of the 737 and the airbus fleets the 737-500's have two different configurations as do the -300's. The ex shuttle planes are 8/102 and 8/120 respectively. The mainline who didn't serve with shuttle are 9/96 and 8/112. The Airbus 320's are configured with 12/126 and the 319's have 8/112.

-m

 Big thumbs up
 
baw716
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Je

Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:00 am

Well, finally something from UA management that makes sense! I have stated from day one that they need to focus on their international markets and drop the domestic ones that they do not have a prayer to be competitive.

It will be interesting to see if UAX does pick up some of these routes. With the right combination of aircraft and costs, there is an opportunity for UAX carriers to come in and feed the mainline (which helps both carriers).

They have paired down their international schedule a great deal and have parked quite a few 747-400s in the desert. This also seems to be good news, as when the 777LR comes into play, United will have little need for the 747-400. Yes, there are some high density routes where the -400 makes sense; however, at the end of the day, the 777-200ER/LR is the right aircraft combination for them (again my opinion).

Good news from UAL!
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
behramjee
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:13 am

A very wise move as Intl routes bring in high yield and revenue for UAL especially the Asian flights.

But whilst they talk expansion for Intl long haul flights...why isnt INDIA on the drawing board??? They will make a hell a lot of money flying from their IAD and ORD hubs to DEL and BOM either nonstop or via a Star Alliance hub like FRA or CPH to India !!!

CPH lacks nonstop flights to India so SK could codeshare with UAL on this route.

Many ppl from IAD/BWI area have said that when they fly intl from IAD on KLM-BA-LH-AF etc...they see 100s of Indians lined up for flights via EU-UK bound for India everyday...so with IAD a huge hub for UAL alongwith ORD it would be a wise move.
 
blsbls99
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:14 am

Someone mentioned them cutting their SFO or LAX hubs. Isn't Virgin America going into SFO? I would expect United to pull back some of the shorter trip domestic feed they have into SFO, or have more of it go UAX.
IMO the greater focus on international is a good solution for now. But I also feel that it is only a matter of time that the so called LCC's are going to expand into international routes. After all, it was only 10-20 years ago that the "LCC" was just a niche carrier, flying a few routes here and there. Now they are the "new" domestic carrier, with the only true differentiation between them and the legacy carriers are that LCC have lower labor costs. Granted, over time, that "labor cost" will continue to rise, as it did at the legacy carriers, and we'll probably see the next generation of LCC's rise, with lower costs than today's LCC. Kind of a cyclical pattern.
Does that sound crazy? Very speculative...
319 320 313 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 742 752 763 772 CRJ D9S ERJ EMB L10 M88 M90 SF3 AT4
 
LVZXV
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:25 am

A brave decision on UA's part. Let's hope it pays off.

The following UA 737-522s are earmarked for AR:

N939UA - 06/05
N940UA - 07/05
N947UA - 08/05
N949UA - 09/05
N950UA - XX/05
N952UA - XX/04
N954UA - XX/04

...and there will probably be others...

Regards,

ZXV

P.S. Were they able to sell those 777s to RG?

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
AGrayson514
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:36 am

I wonder how many markets can say goodbye to mainline now? And on that note, are they still getting their EMB-170's ? I hope maybe we can get that in GRR, especially if they do away with the 735's.

~ Andrew Grayson
Give a little bit...
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:40 am

They have paired down their international schedule a great deal and have parked quite a few 747-400s in the desert. This also seems to be good news, as when the 777LR comes into play, United will have little need for the 747-400. Yes, there are some high density routes where the -400 makes sense; however, at the end of the day, the 777-200ER/LR is the right aircraft combination for them (again my opinion).

Umm...UA has no 777LRs on order, and has no plans to order any. With around 50 747s and some options remaining (to my knowledge), most of which are owned by UA, it would make no sense to buy 772LRs at this point. There aren't enough markets to justify the cost of the aircraft. UA should not be purchasing ANY aircraft for a few years at least.

More and more 744's have been coming out of the desert to serve these new int'l routes, so UA is definately being proactive (in the fleet department anyway).
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:42 am

I wonder how many markets can say goodbye to mainline now? And on that note, are they still getting their EMB-170's ? I hope maybe we can get that in GRR, especially if they do away with the 735's.

Two of 22 E170s have been delivered to Republic for UAX so far, and they still have 23 options. I'm thinking we'll see more of those options firmed up in the coming months.
 
An-225
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:38 am

744s are not going. The planes to NRT, SYD, BKK, SIN and other Asian/European destinations are going out full. 772LR is not on order either.

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
roseflyer
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:53 am

I presume most of the capacity is going to be to Mexico and the Caribbean rather than the glorified transatlantic or transpacific flights. Caribbean yields are pretty good for the length of flights because there is not as much LCC competition, but there is some. On their website they have the following destinations listed that are all new:

Denver: Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Cabo San Lucas, Ixtapa
Chicago: Cozumel, San Jose, Costa Rica, Aruba, Grand Cayman, Montego Bay, Punta Cana, St. Maarten
San Fancisco: Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Cabo San Lucas
Washington Dulles: Cancun, Grand Cayman
Los Angeles: Ixtapa

I don't know how many of them are official, although I know most of them have already been loaded into the system. This number of routes is significant and probably will comprise most of the increase, however Nagoya and a few others could also factor in.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Thrust
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:34 pm

Though it pains me to see 68 jets being cut from the fleet, it is definitely true this will help them out....as for them cutting services to their LAX hub...why? LAX is a huge city, lots of demand on a route to that big of a city...I would think UA is going to preserve their LAX hubs...maybe DEN could use some cuts?
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
MaverickM11
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:13 pm

"Though it pains me to see 68 jets being cut from the fleet, it is definitely true this will help them out.... "

Doubtful...most of these mainline cuts will be likely replaced by regional jets. This will helpe UA a minimal amount in the short run, and they'll be saddled with costly RJs with high unite costs like everyone else.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
AirframeAS
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:28 pm

Though it pains me to see 68 jets being cut from the fleet, it is definitely true this will help them out....as for them cutting services to their LAX hub...why?

There is always SFO to rely on for a hub. To me, it makes no sense to have a hub at both LAX and SFO.

Its good to see that UA is pulling its head out of the sand and actually using some brains. This is a sign that they'll do just fine beyond Summer 2005. Now I have more confidence in them than I had before. Hopefully this will pay off in the long run.

But then again, it might work AND it may not work....you never know....
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
IL76TD
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:54 pm

"Doubtful...most of these mainline cuts will be likely replaced by regional jets. This will helpe UA a minimal amount in the short run, and they'll be saddled with costly RJs with high unite costs like everyone else."

They are cutting flights and aircraft, not replacing them with RJ's, hence "fleet reduction" not "fleet reconfiguration"
 
An-225
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RE: UAL To Cut 12% Of Domestic Flights - Axe 68 Jets

Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:46 pm

I don't see them doing major cuts in any of the hubs. They said that they're committed to all 5. Plus, DEN is our most profitable one anyway.

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.