EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:31 am

Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:35 pm

VP situation is really critical:

According to Brazilian newspapers GE asked VP bankruptcy yesterday in São Paulo.

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/dinheiro/ult91u89644.shtml

Besides, VP is fireing pilots, flight attendants and ground staff. They say that since some of their aircraft are grounded they have to reduce the number of employees.

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/dinheiro/ult91u89637.shtml

Infraero (Brazilian Airports Administrator) will start charging VP airport fees in a daily basis from next October 13th.

 
DBCooper
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:51 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:57 pm

What does bankruptcy mean in Brazil, in this case? Reorganization or shutdown/liquidation?

- DBC
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:58 pm

Oh dear! VASP was one of those carriers that always looked like it pulled through by the skin of its teeth, but the end may well be in sight for them. From what I know Canhedo was bad news from the start. How different were VASP beforehand?

As an Argentine, I'm curious, how is Brazil's economy doing now? I know it suffered some negative growth last year, but are things improving as they are in Argentina or not at all? And to what extent do you think VASP and VARIG owe their critical financial conditions to the economy? Or more to the (mis)management of the airlines themselves?

Regards,

ZXV

P.S. Without distracting too much attention from VASP, do VARIG look like they'll live past October 15?

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:31 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:25 am

DBC,

Bankruptcy in Brazil mean liquidation.

LXV,

Before Canhedo, VP was a public company. So, ....

However, since the beginning, when it was privatized, things started bad for VP.

01 - Nobody knows why, but Canhedo was the only one interested in VP.

02 - He (Canhedo) is a very close friend of the guy who was in charge of the government in São Paulo at that time.

I have friends who worked for VP and they told me that in the 80s and 90s when aviation was doing well all over the world, VP was also doing well. However, money were largely deviated from the company.

Every single possibility of deviating money was used. Therefore, VP present situation is not a consequence of the economy downturn, but mainly a consequence of a bad administration.

VP sky became even blacker when GOL started its operations, after all they are the direct competitor of VP.

Regarding to your question about RG, I think they are doing better now. However, since they have huge debts everything they earn now is used to pay their creditors, what causes serious problem to their cash flow.

In general, I think things are getting better in Brazil. See TAM and GOL examples. TAM showed revenues in the first semmester and I do think they will end the year in a blue sky. The same applyes for GOL.

Regards,

EMB195ER
 
123
Posts: 616
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:37 am

Poor employees.... they are a pitty because what do they have to do with the terrible management?

Just as a reminder to you: Vasp purchased a large stake of LAB, then did real financial carnage with them until a Bolivian businessman purchased back the stakes VP purchased, and now, LAB is running fine - inspite of old debts.



 
DBCooper
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:51 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:36 am

When I was at CGH last week, I noticed a VP B733 parked on the ramp outside the RG hangar. I was told it had been seized for non-payment of airport fees.

I also noticed a VP A300 and B732 parked next to some derelict aircraft at GRU. The A300 looked reasonably intact, but the B732 was missing both engines.

I'll look around some more next week when I fly through GRU again.


- DBC
 
EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:31 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:13 pm

They used to fly 3 A300, however just one has been flying lately. They used the other two as part suppliers.

This week will be decisive to VP, a Brazilian ministry said today if they don't pay some of their debts until Friday and show a reestructuring programme they will lose their rights to fly.

Hugs,

EMB195ER
 
JCS
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:20 pm

Does anyone know which aircraft at GRU is missing both engines?

Johannes
 
PDPsol
Posts: 1111
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:09 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:27 pm

LVZXV,

Brazil's economy is doing rather well and has recovered smartly from the anemic growth levels of 2002/2003. Annualized GDP growth through June 30, 2004 was a blistering 5.7%, the fastest since 1996. In fact, the Central Bank is slowly raising short-term interest rates, 25 basis-points at a time, to keep a lid on potential inflation.

Brazil's economic management stands in stark contrast to Argentina's. Lula accepted fiscal restraint was necessary and even recently increased the required 'primary fiscal surplus' (federal receipts, less expenses excluding debt service) from 4.25% of GDP to 4.50% of GDP. These measures have increased investor confidence in Brazil, with corresponding improvements in its sovereign credit rating.

Following the success of Lula's political party in the municipal elections last Sunday, he now needs to focus on microeconomic reforms, such as labor market flexibility, further deregulation of the energy and power markets, and greater incentives for private sector investment.

cheers,

PDPsol
 
DBCooper
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:51 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:42 pm

PP-SOT is the impounded B733 at CGH, if memory serves correctly. I will try and see which B732 it is at GRU minus the engines when I pass through on Tuesday.


- DBC
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:06 am

Brazilian Government just announced that is giving VP 6 months to present a re-structure plan. This re-structure plan also includes the payment of all Governmental debits.
VASP concession contract is expiring next 10TH OCT as so as VARIG´s. Both are having the same dead-line.
 
pzurita1
Posts: 1199
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:21 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:54 am

Correct me if I am wrong, but was there a moment when 4 Brazilian airlines were flying to Europe?

RG for sure
JJ for sure
VP may be?
Transbrasil???

Cheers

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:39 am

Pzurita1:

Yes. In the late '90s, ALL four carriers were flying regularly to Europe. RG with 747s, 767s, DC-10s and MD-11s, JJ with A330s, TR with 767s and VP with MD-11s. Besides JJ's service to CDG, RG is the only one still linking Europe with Brazil.

Regards,

ZXV


How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
Mexicana757
Posts: 2636
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:45 pm

Here is another article discussing Vasp's future. Hope this airline stays afloat and gets some new management.
http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?duid=mtfh69239_2004-10-07_22-05-37_n07266339_newsml
 
pzurita1
Posts: 1199
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:21 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sat Oct 09, 2004 2:48 am

LVZXV:

Do you remember what were JJ, VP and Transbrasil destinations in Europe during those good days?

PZ

Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sat Oct 09, 2004 2:59 am

Would it help RG if VP ends operation?
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:20 am

Pzurita1 (what's the link with Monterrey & Bhutan?!):

JJ

I'm unaware of JJ serving any European destination besides CDG. Maybe JJMNGR or EMB195ER could confirm...

TR

LGW
ZRH?

VP

ATH (briefly; poor demand)
BCN
BRU
FRA
ZRH

(Notice they never went head-to-head with RG...)

There weren't SO many services to Europe, but it was quite a feat that a not-so-developed country like Brazil had 4 airlines serving the continent at one time.

Saludos,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
pzurita1
Posts: 1199
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:21 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:33 am

ZXVLV,

I am sure AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ served Zurich as a I read it in its inflight magazine when I flew them in 2001.

Indeed, it was quite a feat to have 4 Brazilian airlines flying to Europe. In Mexico we barely have 5 airlines flying to US despite our long border and closeness (AM, MX, 6A, JR, ZE) I am not incluiding Aerolitoral or Aerocaribe as they are AM and MX subsidiaries.

Link between Bhutan and Monterrey is simple. I live in MTY and I went to Bhutan last January (of course, flying with Druk Air). Fascinating country, fascinating airline, fascinating approach to PBH.

Saludos. Sos porteño?

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:31 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sat Oct 09, 2004 8:01 am

Jo,

I don't think VP stops flying will help RG. Passengers flying VP are most likely to move to GOL.

Pzurita1,

For only a few months JJ flew to Zurich and Frankfurt. Both destinations initiated at the same time. Zurich was a continuation of the FRA flight.

If I am not wrong this flight started when Swissair desappeared. However, high competition from RG and LH (putting fares down), September 11th terrorist attacks, and world economy downturn made JJ cancel this flight very quick. What, in my opinion, was a correct decision.

By this time JJ also started a flight to MVD, which was also canceled due to RG and Pluna competition.

Hugs,

EMB195ER
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:33 am

Pzurita1:

Si, se puede decir que soy porteño, pero tambien soy muchas cosas, entre ellos vasco. ¿Sos mejicano?

EMB195ER:

By this time JJ also started a flight to MVD, which was also canceled due to RG and Pluna competition.

Which has since been restarted by PZ, has it not? In your opinion, do you think JJ are making the most use of their A330s, or did they simply join the fleet at a bad time? Besides their existing routes, is there NO way they could be making money?

Saludos,

ZXV



How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:31 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:07 am

ZXV,

This flight operated by PZ is not the same, because the JJ flight was a direct one from GRU to MVD, while the PZ flight is via ASU.

In my opinion their A330s joined the fleet in a bad moment, this is why they were (or still are???) flying with some Middle East airlines.

However, someone told me that JJ wasn't able to put off the delivery of those aircraft.

I think there is no routes in Brazil for such a big aircraft. RG flies some of this MD-11s and B772 to MAO, but mainly due to belly cargo.

Hugs,

EMB195ER
 
The777Man
Posts: 5936
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:06 pm

TR flew to AMS, VIE, LGW and possibly more European desitnations.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
DBCooper
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:51 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sat Oct 09, 2004 9:14 pm

RG also flies MD-11s GIG-BSB; was in BSB 2 weeks ago and saw one there in the evening with a different one there in the morning.

JJ has 4 A-330s flying for Etihad. The other 5 fly from GRU to MIA and CDG. Only domestic legs flown by JJ with the 330 are a daily GRU-REC and a 1/week GRU-SSA which continues on to MIA.

I haven't seen the VP A-300s flying (I am a newcomer to Brasil) . When they were operational, where did they operate them?


- DBC
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:43 pm

DBCooper:

VP used their A300s mainly from GIG/GRU to the Nordeste (VP is 100% domestic). Last year, I chose VP from GIG-SSA, expecting a comfortable A300, as it said on the ticket. Turned out to be an old, ear-splittingly noisy 737-200 as the A300 went "technical".
VP still have the 3 A300s in the fleet dating from 1982 (PP-SNL, SNM, SNN). SNL has been conspicuously absent some time so has probably been cannibalised. The other two were flying earlier this year, but I'm not sure if they still are--maybe someone in Brazil could confirm.
If VP is running out of money, I'd say expect to see the A300s and 737-300s grounded first, followed by the rest. If you're a newcomer to Brazil, I'd try and stay clear of VP. Last year they were bad enough; don't risk it when you have alternative options like GOL and TAM available (both excellent).

Take care,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sun Oct 10, 2004 12:33 am

LVZXV: Brazil's economy is doing far better than Argentina. Check reply by Pdpsol (well done!).

Indeed, TAM and GOL are already on the blue, buying new aircrafts and adding routes to their network. GOL started flying to four new destinations in South and Southeast Brazil, effective 15 October: JOI, UDI, CXJ and IGU - this on top of their two new routes to North Brazil, effective Septeber: PVH, RBR. It will start its first international route, to EZE from December. GOL is now the largest operator of 737 next generation in Latin America. (Also for you info, ILC has a stake of 20% in GOL, which had sucessfully launched its IPO in June this year!).

TAM will start flying from GIG to SCL in November and from GRU to LIM in March/05.

Also agree that passengers flying VP will migrate to GOL. This has been confirmed by a report released yesterday by the Brazilian Civil Aviation Authority (DAC): In September VP market share fell from 9.9 to 8.6% of te Brazilian domestic market. GOL increased its share from 20.3 to 22%. TAM remains the leader with 35.6%, RG is second with 31.6% of the domestic market. Overall the domestic market in Brazil in September had a growth of 11.5%, and of 7% in the international market.

LVZXV: for your info, all VP 737-200s were grounded by DAC and are not allowed to operate anymore. No doubt: if you can choose, try flying TAM or GOL - avoid VP!

RG had its license renewed by DAC for another 6 moths, I'm not sure whether it can survive more than that without state aid - but the Brazilian government seems ready to rescue RG. Many options are under study, but no result as yet. The merger with TAM has been abandoned. Another solution under consideration is to allow foreign investors to take a bigger stake in RG, backed by a loan from the Brazilian Development Bank. TP and LAN demonstrated interest (note that TP and RG will start codesharing from November, and both airlines have synergies. Indeed, TP CEO Mr. Fernando Pinto, was the former CEO of RG some years ago!).


[Edited 2004-10-09 17:35:45]
 
jeff32
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:38 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:18 am

LVZXV: for your info, all VP 737-200s were grounded by DAC and are not allowed to operate anymore. No doubt: if you can choose, try flying TAM or GOL - avoid VP!/

Not true, only 6 737-200 were grounded. According to airfleets.net, Vasp operates 21 737-200 and 3 737-300.

VP still have the 3 A300s in the fleet dating from 1982 (PP-SNL, SNM, SNN). SNL has been conspicuously absent some time so has probably been cannibalised. The other two were flying earlier this year, but I'm not sure if they still are--maybe someone in Brazil could confirm

VP is operating only 1 of the 3 A300s(jetsite.com.br info)
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:43 am

Welkom Hardiwv!

Thanks for your detailed and informative post. IGU will make a lot of money for GOL, so too will EZE which they plan to launch in a week or two.

As for VP, I remember reading that only 6 of their 737-200s had been grounded together with a 737-300. This would leave them with 15 737-200s, 3 737-300s and presumably the VASPEX fleet of 727-200 Freighters.

Jeff32:

VASP operate a total of 21 737-200 (of which 2 are Freighters), 4 737-300s and 3 A300s. From the avaiable info, at least 9 of their aircraft have been grounded.

Regards,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:17 am

LVZXV and Jeff32:

thanks for the remark on VP 737-200 fleet!

No doubt, GOL service to EZE to start from December will put even more pressure on the other airlines, i.e. RG, JJ, AR! We can expect a lot of competition on the GRU-EZE route in the months to come! No wonder that all other internatinal airlines operating the leg GRU-EZE have dropped their service (e.g. LH, LX, AC, KLM - now codesharing with TAM).
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:41 am

Hardiwv:

No wonder that all other internatinal airlines operating the leg GRU-EZE have dropped their service (e.g. LH, LX, AC, KLM - now codesharing with TAM).

Strange how BA has chosen to continue the GRU-EZE segment, although they are upgrading from the 777 to the 744 as of 04 NOV.

By the way, how do you know so much about Brazil?

Regards,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:11 am

LVZXV:

I am based in AMS, but fly regularly on the route AMS-GRU on business and leasure. I was also on assignment in BSB from 1996 until 2001, so I can follow Brazilian news, etc....

Indeed, BA is still operating its GRU-EZE flights (4 x week), and GRU-GIG (3 x week), and will upgrade its service from the 777 to the 747 from early Nov. The LHR-GRU route is BA's 8th most profitable First Class in the world! The introduction of the 747 will considerable expand BA First Class service to GRU!


[Edited 2004-10-09 20:13:34]
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:45 pm

LVZXV:

But not sure whether BA will continue to operate GRU-EZE for much longer. Probably they will consider LHR-EZE with direct flights instead. Same decision taken by LH some months ago. EZE now is the first stop of LH service to SCL.

Hardiwv
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:09 pm

Hardiwv:

BA served EZE directly from 1992-2003. The Argentine economic crisis forced many airlines to rethink that route--AC, AM, DL, KL, MX and QF suspended the route, while others, like BA, added a stop in GRU, and then came the aircraft downgrades--AF from B744 to B777, AZ from MD-11 to B777, BA from B744 to B777 and so forth.

In 2001, BA were considering serving EZE daily with a B744. The following year, BA was serving EZE 3 x weekly with a B777. But now, things are a lot better. AC, DL and MX have returned, AA has upped their frequencies, LH are coming direct, and IB comes twice daily in the summer months.

It would be great if BA could eliminate the GRU stop altogether. I have a feeling they will, and soon.

Back to VP...

Regards,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:33 pm

ZXV,

You're right, since this year, with the economic recovery of Argentina, many airlines are coming back to serve EZE directly, with the exception of LX, which had to downgrade its worldwide network anyway. LX now does GRU 5 x week, but will improve its service later in the year.

Note: in addition to the airlines you mentioned, AZ is flying direct MIL-EZE with 777; AF is doing CDG-EZE daily, which is a stop-over of their flight to SCL. I think you can expect BA to re-start its direct service LHR-EZE sometime soon. This would avoid the in-between stop in GRU!

EZE also saw new airline additions which never served there before: E.g. MH is flying KL-EZE, with a stop over in JNB/CPT (2 x week) with the 747! Which is excellent news for those travelling between Asia/Africa and South America. The oher option would be going via GRU with RG or SA, which have daily flights GIG-GRU-JNB-CPT.
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:30 pm

LX are a basket case, and as you say, their withdrawal from EZE is somewhat anomalous.

AZ has always flown a mix FCO-EZE-FCO, MXP-EZE-MXP, FCO-EZE-MXP and MXP-EZE-FCO. I never quite followed. GRU is a pain, and unfortunately, I'm passing through it again in December.

I don't know how long MH have been serving EZE (funny that neither JL nor KE do), but as you say, they are a favourite among Argentines, and they are pretty cheap too. SA was another casualty of the crisis, and now flies only as far as GRU and then codeshares with RG to EZE.

EK are also planning a DXB-EZE service soon, with the A345.

Regards,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:54 pm

ZXV:

SA withdrew from EZE not only because of the Argentine crisis, but mainly because of its wider codeshare agreement with RG. So it makes more sense to fly to GRU, as there SA can count on RG operational and onward connections. SA now is a Star Alliance member, effective Jan. 2005. This was the same reason why QF abandoned the route SYD-EZE, to introduce SYD-SCL. For QF it makes more sense to fly to SCL, as LAN is also part of Oneworld!

MH started flying to EZE this year! It makes the route KL-JNB-CPT-EZE!

JL has 4 x week flights NRT-JFK-GRU using the 747. So JL isthe only airline operating 747 between the US and Brazil, having an important market share in JFK-GRU! GRU has the biggest Japanese community outside Japan. RG also makes the route to Japan, but via LAX. With the new VISA restrictions in the US (now even if you are transit passenger in the US you need VISA), RG is trying to operate GRU-NRT via Zurich. But it's finding regulatory problems to operate ZUR-NRT, mainly because the Japanese government does not want to grant rights to RG to operate ZUR-NRT.

I find it normal that KE does not operate to GRU or EZE. The traffic between Africa and South America is largely dominated by SA and RG. SA route to GRU was SA most profitable interncontinental route in 2003.

I'm sorry about your stop-over in GRU...GIG is much beter....I agree that GRU is a pain! But INFRAERO is improving GRU with heavy investments over the next years: the Third Terminal will be delivered in 2006, together with the third and new runaway, increasing passenger numbers to 40 million/year. Also, a metro line will link GRU to downtown Sao Paulo, making the travel between the city and the airport faster (delivery in 2007).
 
kanebear
Posts: 852
Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 12:06 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:30 pm

It'd be wonderful to see EZE-LHR direct and would probably save BA a ton on crew layovers. BA has to have multiple crews in South America to operate the flight. One crew operates from EZE-GRU and another goes from GRU to LHR. I can't remember how long the crews spend in EZE but it's NOT an overnight turn... and then they spend a day or more in Sao Paolo. As I understand it, it ends up being about a six day trip... LHR-GRU.... a day in GRU, then GRU-EZE, a few days in EZE, EZE-GRU, another day and GRU-LHR. The catering's better out of EZE though.  Smile
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:41 pm

Kanebear:

Agree, but BA also rotate their crew on the route GRU-GIG. About the food better out of EZE, probably is the nice Argentine steak  Smile

Note that almost the whole aircraft gets empy in GRU. It could well be dangerous that BA simply scraps EZE from its service, as LX and KL did some time ago.

If TAM joins Oneworld it would make sense (ref. rumours TAM will join Oneworld in 2005. TAM-AF have suspended their codeshare and milleage accrual on GRU-CDG and GIG-CDG routes effective Oct/04 for AF and Jan/05 for TAM. Then you can expect TAM to fly EZE-GRU-LHR). Nothing confirmed, only rumours for now...TAM is not member of a global alliance yet, and has a strong cooperation with AA (another Oneworld member). Also read that TAM will suspend its codeshare with RG in 2005. Lots of news to come next year...

Hardiwv
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:22 am

Hardiwv:

I first saw MH at EZE in early January 2003. They must have begun their KUL-JNB-CPT-EZE in 2002 or even 2001. I guess they chose to weather the crisis!

Regards,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:31 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:05 am

Hey guys,

I would like to know if someone here knows why JJ and AF are dropping the codeshare? Any idea?

Hugs,

EMB195ER
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:48 am

I really don't know why. But I know that TAM improved considerably its service to CDG (it is one of the few airlines offering lie-flat seat on intercontinental routes). TAM has also been upgraded from 4* to 5* to by Airquality (SkyTrax). So maybe because it would not make sense for TAM to continue codesharinig with AF if it is offering a product which is much superior than AF, as you may have your flight ticketed AF but actually fly TAM...
 
EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:31 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:36 am

Hardwv,

Adding a point to your comment: last July I was in Paris and a friend told me that TAM was bringing to its won responsability the check in operations at CDG, because they were not happy with the service offered by Air France.

They would like, for example, to have Brazilian speakers and not Portuguese speakers in order to make Brazilians and South Americans more comfortable when arriving and leaving Paris.

On the other hand, the codeshare with AF is extremely important to TAM, since Air France can take TAM passangers from LA to all Europe.

So, if they are leaving Air France they must have something bigger in mind.

Hugs,

EMB195ER
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:49 am

EMB195ER:

Again, agree with you. In my opinion, this "bigger thing" in TAM's mind is the Oneworld Alliance!  Smile how do you feel? If you put the pieces together, it starts making sense: 1) TAM has an excellent cooperation with AA; 2) TAM is due to start flights to SCL, which would use LAN synergies (LAN and AA are Oneworld members).

You can expect lots of developments in 2005!

Hardi

 
DBCooper
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:51 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:41 am

While TAM may be a natural fit for oneworld, they will need to bulk up operations at both GRU and GIG to make it more effective for their potential partners.

At GIG, for example, they offer just 9 flights on their own metal; the rest are JJ* on RG... Of course, if the codeshare goes away, JJ may add more service at GIG...

GRU is a little more substantial, but is still nothing like the size of CGH or BSB.

Furthermore, cooperation with AA at GRU can be a bit problematic in the (southern) summer time. AA's flights are anchored timing wise at their hubs. JJ's are, of course, anchored at GRU. Consider AA 963; leaves DFW at 1945, arrives GRU at 0752 (at the moment). When the USA moves from DST to standard time, the arrival becomes 0852. And when Brazil moves from standard time to DST, the arrival becomes 0952. Why does this matter? JJ's bank of flights leaves GRU at 0900...so the DFW flight misconnects for much of the year. These 2 hour time swings make it difficult to manage the conections...


- DBC
 
dellatorre
Posts: 864
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 2:50 pm

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:10 am

Just wanna to clarify the destinations flown by the 4 Brazilian Airlines to Europe back in the late 90's.


Varig was flying to: Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Paris, Zurich, Madrid, London (LHR), Lisbon, Rome, Milan, Copenhagen & Munich!

Vasp once flew to: Athens, Zurich, Frankfurt, Madrid, Barcelona And Brussels.

Transbrasil flew to: Vienna, Amsterdam, London (LGW) & Lisbon.

TAM used to fly to FRA and ZRH but that did not last long! The only one that sticked around is CDG!


Other routes:
VAsp also offer flights to Toronto, Casablanca, Osaka and Seoul. In the US they were in Los Angeles, Miami and New York (JFK). I guess they served Aruba plus regular flights to Buenos Aires.

TRansbrasil had flights to Miami, Orlando, New York (JFK) and Washington (IAD) in the USA, and Buenos Aires and Santiago in Latin America.

 
EddieDude
Posts: 6305
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:56 am

VP also flew to MEX at some point or is it my imagination?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 17212
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:00 pm

Maybe they need to enable the rocket assist on more planes  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


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EMB195ER
Topic Author
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:31 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:17 pm

Hardi,

I think we concluded the same points about JJ.

There is just one issue that I forgot to mention. Air France has a partnership with TAM at its maintenance center in São Carlos. With the end of the codeshare, it will be the only let's say "relationship" between them.

Hugs,

EMB195ER
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:36 pm

VP also had flights to Athens at some time in the past (around 1991-1992)!
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:42 pm

Forgot to mention: and VP had flights to Casablanca (via MAD?)
 
Fokker50
Posts: 344
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:34 am

RE: Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy

Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:13 pm

Well, I think that the VASP critical situation has been seemed by the Brazilian people for long time ago, this is not a big notice, for the Brazilian market would be great if VASP could fusionate with other airline this could be the 4 largest airline in Brazil.
Bogota, the South american gateway!

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