Guest

Boeing 717

Sat Mar 04, 2000 10:15 pm

Will the Boeing 717 last? Or, will it just be a failure and Airbus gains more market share?
 
UAL-Fan
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 1999 1:36 pm

RE: Boeing 717

Sun Mar 05, 2000 2:13 am

I think it will do well. It is an awesome plane and I can't wait to take my first ride on one. I have a friend who flies Airtran between Dallas and Atlanta several times a month who tells me it's a very powerful, quiet and comfortable aircraft.
 
jr
Posts: 1043
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:15 am

RE: Boeing 717

Sun Mar 05, 2000 4:04 am

I saw the TWA 717 lift off from DFW this morning - man that baby has got some power. It rocketed out!!
I've flown on 9V-SPK.
 
critter
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2000 1:36 am

RE: Boeing 717

Sun Mar 05, 2000 4:13 am

No doubt about it!

This a/c will be around for a very long time. In fact when the Airbus trash is flown to its final resting place they will fly them home on a Boeing or Douglas. This is a great a/c and I am privlaged to get to work on it every day.......... Well ok I get to look at it because it doesn't break very often. And ohhhhhh what power and grace it has as it lifts off the ground. All of this at only a whisper. There will undoubtably be many more orders being placed within the next few months.
 
sv11
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 1999 6:26 am

RE: Boeing 717

Sun Mar 05, 2000 5:06 am

Hope they launch a bigger version to carry as much as an MD-80. It looks like there is a bigger market for 130-150 seat planes, rather than 100 seaters. Does the 717 offer significant commonality with the DC-9/MD-80? If it is stretched will it be a good MD-80 replacement?

sv11
 
jr
Posts: 1043
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:15 am

RE: Boeing 717 Stretch

Sun Mar 05, 2000 6:21 am

Will boeing really want to stretch the 717 (I know they are considering it). If they do that wont they be competing against their own 737 or am I missing some thing here ...
I've flown on 9V-SPK.
 
DC9Fixer
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Boeing 717

Sun Mar 05, 2000 6:31 am

Hello,
I think the 717 will last because:
1. Cheaper than a 318
2. Flying right now
3. awesome family history dc-9 md-80
4. not an md-90 or md -11
5. it really is a good airplane
I think this will be a good year for the 717 if Boeing gets their act together


sv11, the commonality with the md-80 is really in configuration only the cockpit
is like an md-11 BUT that being said it could shrink or stretch very easily
I think that will happen soon.
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: Boeing 717

Sun Mar 05, 2000 6:49 am

Hi all!

To my knowledge Boeing currently considers a shrink and a stretch of the Boeing 717-200. The shorteer one, called 717-100 is supposed to carry around 70 passengers, the bigger one called 717-300 120-130 passengers. I don´t know if this idea is thus clever because of several reasons. First the 717-300 reasons:

1. Very long then, tube effect.

2. Too much competition, in this area are the very succesful A319, the B737-300, the B737-700 and the B737-600. Already today the 717-200 and the 737-600 competing hard for every 100-seater order which means inner-Boeing competition and pressure on the prices. Quite bad.


The 717-100:

1. From the technical side no problems I think.

2. Extremly hard competition in this market segment. Including the 711 are the CRJ700, the 728JET, the ERJ-170 and the Avro RJ70 as 70-seating jets. While the RJ70 isn´t worth to be counted because of only about 10 orders in ist whole lifetime the CRJ700, 728JET and ERJ-170 have grabbed a lot of very interesting customers i.e. Lufthansa, Crossair, American Eagle, Horizon Air which are all out as potential 717 customers now. BTW, has anyone heard something about upcoming regional orders?

3. The 711 should be heavier as the new-generation RJs are. This means increasing the airport fees and uplifting the direct operating costs.

Conclusion: To me seems as if the 717 programm wasn´t a very well idea. Although it might get some more customers existing regional carriers will rather go for the other regional jets and mainlines, here American Airlines might be named, won´t buy it because of their cost structure. If they introduce this type in all three possible versions the mainline pilot salaries have to be paid which are usually a lot higher then regiojet pilot´s.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: Boeing 717

Sun Mar 05, 2000 6:50 am

Hi all!

To my knowledge Boeing currently considers a shrink and a stretch of the Boeing 717-200. The shorteer one, called 717-100 is supposed to carry around 70 passengers, the bigger one called 717-300 120-130 passengers. I don´t know if this idea is thus clever because of several reasons. First the 717-300 reasons:

1. Very long then, tube effect.

2. Too much competition, in this area are the very succesful A319, the B737-300, the B737-700 and the B737-600. Already today the 717-200 and the 737-600 competing hard for every 100-seater order which means inner-Boeing competition and pressure on the prices. Quite bad.


The 717-100:

1. From the technical side no problems I think.

2. Extremly hard competition in this market segment. Including the 711 are the CRJ700, the 728JET, the ERJ-170 and the Avro RJ70 as 70-seating jets. While the RJ70 isn´t worth to be counted because of only about 10 orders in ist whole lifetime the CRJ700, 728JET and ERJ-170 have grabbed a lot of very interesting customers i.e. Lufthansa, Crossair, American Eagle, Horizon Air which are all out as potential 717 customers now. BTW, has anyone heard something about upcoming regional orders?

3. The 711 should be heavier as the new-generation RJs are. This means increasing the airport fees and uplifting the direct operating costs.

Conclusion: To me seems as if the 717 programm wasn´t a very well idea. Although it might get some more customers existing regional carriers will rather go for the other regional jets and mainlines, here American Airlines might be named, won´t buy it because of their cost structure. If they introduce this type in all three possible versions the mainline pilot salaries have to be paid which are usually a lot higher then regiojet pilot´s.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
Guest

RE: Boeing 717

Sun Mar 05, 2000 8:02 am

Flying tiger, isnt the fuselage the same as an MD-80? That airplane hasnt generated many complaints because of tube-like aircraft. I think a stretch would do just fine.
 
Guest

RE: Boeing 717

Sun Mar 05, 2000 8:19 am

This plane will be hit with Boeing, many operators who have aging DC-9s will want to purchase this advanced version. A stretched 717 is a terrific idea as a replacement for the DC-9 series 30 & 40.
 
D L X
Posts: 11657
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

717 Vs. 318 And 736

Sun Mar 05, 2000 11:35 am

The 717 does not truly compete against the 736 and the 318 (although the latter two compete with each other.) Let me make a simple analogy.

You've got two wagons that hold two kids each. One is made of plywood and nails, the other is made of steel and concrete. So, you're tugging your two kids in the wagon through the neighborhood. Which wagon do you choose? The answer is: it depends.

It depends on how far you want to go. If you're just going up and down the street, then coming home, you want to take the lighter wooden wagon so you exert less energy. But, if you're planning on going on a picnic and you're dragging the wagon to a park a mile away, you'll want the heavier steel wagon that can support the kids, their lunches, etc. because the wooden one can't support everything.

This is almost exactly what is going on with 717 vs. 318/736 (and also 739/321 vs 757). They may have similar capacities, but the former is much much lighter than the latter. This is important because if you're only doing short trips, you don't want to lug all that support for fuel, lavatories, galleys, etc. when you're never going to need it. The 318 and 736 (by virtue of being shrink designs) have much heavier takeoff weights and structural support allowing them to carry much more fuel and fly transcontinentally (in the US) while the 717 cannot.

So you see, the three jets serve two different missions. If you're doing short flights, the 717 kicks the 318 and 736's collective arse. But of course, if you're doing long flights, a 717 won't cut it, and you'll need the 736/318.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Long Live The 717!

Mon Mar 06, 2000 4:58 am

There are really no direct competitors for the 717 today. The Fokker 100 sold fairly well and the airlines that fly the type are very pleased with them. But if you accidently sideswiped the terminal with the wing, the aircraft would have to be taken apart for spares because no on makes new Fokker wings anymore. I don't see why AA might not sell their Fokker 100s and buy 717s.

Personally, I think that the market for the 717-300 is much better than that for the -100. The seat-mile costs would fall even lower. I don't really see the 736 or A318 as competitors for it. Plus, while Delta's pilots are paid more than Comair's, for example, if in the future they both operated aircraft of the same size, Delta would be able to price their seats higher simply because they're a major airline, not some regional. So I think that ought to offset the higher pilot costs of the 717 vs. regional airplanes.


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