bongo
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:32 am

Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:28 am


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mike Parks



Is really the President flying the AF1, I mean, it is not a dangerous maneuver? If so, why has to be refuelled if that plane has enough range to cross The Pond ?

Thanks
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
ntspelich
Posts: 740
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 2:35 am

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:33 am

If it's going under the callsign "Air Force 1" the President has to be on board. And speaking that the photographer is in the USAF, I'd assume that they'd be aware if it indeed was USAF1 or just the VIP 747 operating under it's other callsign. But, that's just my take on it.

[Edited 2004-10-07 18:36:41]
United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
 
JetboyTWA
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 3:03 pm

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:34 am

By the looks of that 747, it is not the aircraft that carries the President. Maybe someone will have more information on what the purpose of that 747 is.

-Ryan
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:37 am

It's a command and control bird.
 
knoxibus
Posts: 638
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:59 pm

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:40 am

Basically it allows the President to have a complete secured network of communication with all the country (USA of course) agencies and armed forces in case of emergency.

I guess it has many more functions but I guess it is top secret...
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
 
User avatar
Moose135
Posts: 2555
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:27 pm

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:47 am

That's the E-4 (aka NEACP - National Emergency Airborne Command Post) As the name implies, it's used for command & control duties in the event of national emergency or attack, and usually (at least in the past) sits alert near wherever the President is located.

In a previous life I flew KC-135s at Grissom AFB, and the E-4 would sit alert there at times. 15 years ago, it was full of gee-wizz stuff, I can only imagine what's in there now!

And as to the safety of in-flight refueling, it's perfectly safe as long as everyone knows what they are doing, but if something goes wrong, it can ruin your entire day.

Moose
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:45 am

The photographer's comment for that photo (that's the little bit of text just under the picture) reads:

"Refueling the E-4 supporting the President's trip to Europe"

No mention of AF1, VC-25, or the President being on board.


LY744
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
ntspelich
Posts: 740
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 2:35 am

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:46 am

My misread before making my initial post. My apologies for that.

[Edited 2004-10-07 20:00:31]
United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:48 am

Hey

has any one ever see the movie Air Force 1?

They try to refuel the plane and the KC-10 ends up blowing up!!


Well thats just a movie.
No Vueling No Party
 
portcolumbus
Posts: 1571
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 7:10 am

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:52 am

Well thats just a movie.

And a terrible one at that...
 
JAGflyer
Posts: 3453
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:31 am

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:49 am

The color scheme looks very similar to that off KLM, the placement of the different colors is acurate to those of KLM.
Support the beer and soda can industry, your recycle old airplanes!
 
SFO2SVO
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:56 pm

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Ins

Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:00 am

And why did they need in-flight refueling for the trip to Europe?
747 should be able to make it "on one tank".
318-19-20-21 332 343 717 727 737-234578 743-4 752 763 772 D9/10 M11/8x/90 F70 RJ85 ATR72 SF340 E120 TU34/54 IL18/62/86/9
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:30 am

As to why refuling on the flight pictured, probably in case of an emergency (like on 9/11) the aircraft could continue flying a longer distance before having to land or be able to return to the USA or a US military base. There could be also the issue of MTOW and have to take off with less than full tanks.
 
BostonGuy
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:28 am

As I recall the only time Air Force One (i.e. with a President aboard) has been refueled in-flight was during President Bush's nonstop flight from Texas to Baghdad last November.
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2446
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:59 am

If the President is aboard the aircraft then, technically it has to be classified as AirForce 1. The only exception to this rule was in 1973 when President Nixon and a few Secret Service agents quietly boarded a scheduled United flight (I think it was a DC-10) from DC to LA.

In the Tom Clancy thriller "Sum of All Fears" President Fowler (played by James Cromwell) is rushed into an E-4B minutes after a nuclear attack on Baltimore. Although it doesn't mention AF1 by name, the E-4B being an AirForce plane should carry the callsign whenever the president is aboard.

[Edited 2004-10-08 01:04:31]
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2446
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:09 am

As I recall the only time Air Force One (i.e. with a President aboard) has been refueled in-flight was during President Bush's nonstop flight from Texas to Baghdad last November.

If I remember correctly the news article said he changed planes at Andrews AFB before continuing to Baghdad.
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:16 am


As I recall the only time Air Force One (i.e. with a President aboard) has been refueled in-flight was during President Bush's nonstop flight from Texas to Baghdad last November.


Bmacleod is correct - the VC-25s have never done an aerial refueling with the president on board. The flight leg from Andrews to Baghdad was done non-stop without an IFR.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
ntspelich
Posts: 740
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 2:35 am

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:18 am

the President is aboard the aircraft then, technically it has to be classified as AirForce 1. The only exception to this rule was in 1973 when President Nixon and a few Secret Service agents quietly boarded a scheduled United flight (I think it was a DC-10) from DC to LA.


Right, because then it would go under Executive 1
United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2402
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:48 am

If the POTUS is on any aircraft, would these be the callsigns?

Navy: Navy One
Marine Corps: Marine One
Air Force: Air Force
Coast Guard: Coast Guard One
civillian: Executive One
Life is better when you surf.
 
N766UA
Posts: 7843
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:33 am

That's not one of the planes used as AF1. That's a support aircraft. The color scheme and fairing on the roof give it away.
This Website Censors Me
 
SoBe
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:11 am

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:46 am

As I recall they were/are called "Looking Glass" planes. I had read that During the Cold War there was one airborne over the US 24 hours a day. I don't know if that is still the case.
 
ntspelich
Posts: 740
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 2:35 am

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:58 am

Futureual:

Pretty much, except you forgot Army One.

Additionally, any civil a/c with a member of the President's family onboard gets the callsign Executive One Foxtrot.

United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
 
mattbna
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:24 pm

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:37 pm

I can't believe no one has posted any of the photos in the database yet...

There are 12 photos of one of the "looking glass" birds currently online including this great shot:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sven De Bevere




Matt
Canon EOS 7D & 40D -- 100-400mm L IS -- 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II -- 28-135mm IS -- 10-22mm -- 18-55mm EF-S
 
erj
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 11:22 am

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:55 pm

As to the question of why this is getting refueled just to hop the pond...
This plane is to remain airborne at all times (or one of the 4? of them). It is for command and control and is useless to have it sitting on the ground. Someday I'd love to know what the communication capabilities are on this bird, must be some incredible toys.
 
KBGRbillT
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:15 am

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:23 pm

First off, this is an E-4B NAOC (National Airborne Operations Center) as it is now called. NEACP was discontinued as the mission name in 1996. It is not a VC-25 or a KLM bird! There are 4 of these aircraft total and they are in the 1 ACCS stationed at Offutt AFB (also home to U.S. Strategic Command HQ). The NAOC mission is this... In case of national emergency or destruction of ground command control centers, the aircraft provides a highly survivable, command, control and communications center to direct U.S. forces, execute emergency war orders and coordinate actions by civil authorities. This mission requires one E-4B a/c to be in a certain proximity to the President (I think 1 hr. total but I'm not sure) that is why they are seen sitting alert at AFB's and civilian airports around the world. This is also not a 'looking glass' aircraft. That mission was performed by EC-135 aircraft stationed throughout the CONUS which did have at least one bird airborne 24/7/365 for over 20 years to communicate to the nuclear triad in the event of an emergency. The 24/7/365 mission ended however after the cold war in 91 or 92. They were then periodically airborne and mostly sat on alert. EC-135 aircraft lost the mission in 1998-99 to the Navy E-6A Mercury aircraft that are stationed out of Tinker AFB. Here's a link to the AF data sheet on the E-4B a/c http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=99. As for why this aircraft would need to IFR, 1) this a/c has a very high GTOW with all of the interior equipment that is installed and 2) the pilot's need to IFR to stay proficient (training). A national emergencey could require this a/c to stay airborne for days possibly, so the a/c would require the ability to IFR and the pilot's would need to maintain proficiency at IFR's
 
bongo
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:32 am

RE: Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?

Sat Oct 09, 2004 2:22 am

BTW, how long does it takes to refuel that plane in the air, or what is the maximum time for such a big plane to be "connected" with another plane in the air ?
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!