hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:22 am

Anyone knows why RG dropped the 777 from its route AMS/CDG-GRU/POA and NYC-GRU/GIG? RG reintroduced the older MD-11 on these routes.

On a positive note, RG ordered four 757-200, which will strenghten RG's network in Latin American. The first two 757-200 are already being used on the route EZE-GRU-LIM, and GIG-GRU-CCS. The two other 757-200 will be added early in 2005. RG will be the first airline to use the 757-200 in Latin America. Most certainly this is a reaction to TAM expansion in South America. TAM will start flights GIG/GRU-SCL, GRU-LIM and (under study) GRU-CCS.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:56 am

RG ordered four 757-200


"ordered"...?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:59 am

RG will be the first airline to use the 757-200 in Latin America.

Not sure about that...


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+ Aero Continente, briefly.

Regards,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24600
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Sun Oct 10, 2004 7:31 am

Anyone knows why RG dropped the 777 from its route AMS/CDG-GRU/POA and NYC-GRU/GIG? RG reintroduced the older MD-11 on these routes.

They are now flying MIA-GRU-GIG and MAD-GRU-GIG.
a.
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3654
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Sun Oct 10, 2004 8:30 am

RG the first 757 operator in LatAm. Dont make me laugh.
 
LX23
Posts: 337
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:06 am

RG the first 757 operator in LatAm. Dont make me laugh
RCS: you know better than that...but try to take the example of LVZXV - There's no need to be nasty about it
 
DBCooper
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:51 am

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:21 am

It is beyond me why any leasing company would set them up with 4 757s, given RG's financial condition.

What happened to the 2 ex-UA 777s they were supposed to be getting?


- DBC
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:34 am

DBCooper:

N207UA and N208UA are due next month. Both are -ERs. They will be registered PP-VRE and PP-VRF respectively.

As for the 757s, PP-VTQ and PP-VTR are already flying. If you are asking about costs, well last year RG managed to stem losses by a third (still leaving them at over US$600 million in the red--excluding exisiting debts). Strange things are still happening in the fleet, however. 2 767s have been leased back to Euroatlantic Airways, and RG charters them on demand. Another is for sale. As for the MD-11s, some are coming, so are going. Two very recent ex-Swiss additions, PP-VTF and PP-VTG, have already joined FedEx after less than a year with Varig. Not quite sure why this is. I somewhat doubt that operating and maintaining a mix of GE and PW-powered MD-11s and MD-11ERs is proving very economical. Ditto for the two types of 777s.

Wait and see...

RCS:

Hardiwv has posted some very intelligent and informative posts on his first day. In future correct him the way I did.

Saludos,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
DBCooper
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:51 am

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:55 am

ZXV - thanks for the update on the 2 777s.

Hardiwv - in addition to GIG-GRU-SCL, it looks like TAM will be adding BSB-POA-EZE as well.

Anyone know why none of the "big 4" carriers in Brasil do not publish timetables - on-line or otherwise?


- DBC
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:42 pm

LVZXV:

Thanks for the comments  Smile and for the updates on RG 777s and MD-11s. It's amazing how RG changes its aircraft portfolio. Good news that more 777s will be added to RG network.

Indeed, apparently the mix of 777s and MD-11 for intercontinental routes is proving economical, although RG MD-11s are now a bit old. On the route Europe-Brazil RG is the only airline to use this type of aircraft, right?

Thanks for the corrections about RG 757s. I got the information about RG being the first to operate this type of aircraft from Varig's own website...should have double checked! Info also provided on http://www.b757.info/ Thanks for the remarks!

MAH4546:

Thanks for the info": RG is using 777s on its route MAD-GRU-GIG and MIA-GRU. However, the 777 on the route MIA-GRU is used 5 x week, while the MD-11 on the remaining two days.

DBCooper:

AR already operates the route POA-EZE. TAM will start operating this route codeshared with RG, the route will be operated by RG with the 737. AR also operates direct flights FLN-EZE. Airlines are also considering to operate the route NVT-EZE, probably during the summer only. NVT is the newest international airport in Brazil - will be granted this status on 18 October!

About timetable of the four big in Brazil, I recommend the following website:

http://www.aeronews.com.br/

Click on "rotas" and select the route you wish. RG publishes its timetable on its own website (www.varig.com.br).



[Edited 2004-10-10 09:52:33]
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Sun Oct 10, 2004 8:55 pm

Hardiwv:

You're welcome! I'm not sure you could classify RG's MD-11s as "old". Even the FAA definition of "Ageing" is 14 years old, whereas RG's oldest MD-11s date from 1992, and their youngest from 1997. Considering that RG haven't acquired a factory new aircraft since 2001, all they are really going to find these days are used aircraft of early-to-mid-'90s build. AR is in the same boat.
If you want "old", cross the border into Argentina, where you find aircraft of '70s vintage, including some of AR's 747s...

RG are the only airline bridging Brazil and Europe with the MD-11. AZ switched to the B777 last year, and LX flew to EZE for the last time with an MD-11 in late-March this year. Now they serve GRU with the A340-300 and offer onward connections with TAM.

On the Aeropuertos Argentina 2000 website this week, I noticed several TAM flights to/from FLN, meaning they must have added FLN-EZE recently. In the summer months, every Argentine carrier operates charter flights to the resort. As for POA-EZE, RG are already on the route, though the flight starts/ends in GIG or GRU.

I'm sure RG know best. If their mixed fleet policy suits them and saves money, so be it. I was just sceptical about that being the case...

Regards,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
DBCooper
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:51 am

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:17 pm

Hardiwv:
Thanks for the aeronews link. Not really a timetable, though, more just a CPA lookup. I am looking for a PDF-type timetable.

The link to timetable on RG's site returns an error. I'll try again later.

TAM FLN-EZE ops are non-sked/charter. Look for TAM to start BSB-POA-EZE with a 2-class A-320 by early November...


- DBC
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:46 pm

ZXV:

ok that the "old" concept for RG MD-11 maybe questionable. But if you look into the aircraft used by TAM and the other European airlines (e.g. AF, AZ, LX, IB, TP, BA, KL) on the Europe-Brazil route you will conclude that RG's MD-11 are indeed old  Smile

About RG mixed configuration policy, I'm always sceptical whether anything makes economic sense in RG! It must first suit the Ruben Berta Foundation....
(one of RG 777 even pays homage to the Foundation...)

Hardiwv
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:20 pm

Hardiwv:

TAM had the money to order such a vast quantity of Airbuses direct from rhe manufacturer. RG, like most airlines, goes through leasing firms, and ain't got the money for what's brand-new.

All the airlines you mention have generally young fleets, but not to say they had some ancient aircraft until very recently. I remember IB retiring a 32-year-old 747-200 (EC-GAG) last year, and they are still flying a handful of 24-year-old examples. Age isn't the question. Most of RG's MD-11s have two-thirds of their lives remaining. As it is, the next MD-11 due for RG (HB-IWA) will become the oldest MD-11 in the fleet, dating from 1991.

So sorry, I disagree about the age thing. Maybe it's because I'm Argentine, a place you could consider "The Land Of The Old"!  Smile

Regards,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:55 pm

ZXV:

ok... Smile

I am a fan of 777s...
 
EMB195ER
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:31 am

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:01 pm

Talking about RG network, I just downloaded the newest StarAlliance timetable and noticed that RG is not flyig to CPT anymore.

Does anybody know when they stopped this flight?

When they started it, I had the impression it was a mistake and wouldn't last long.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:44 am

EMB195ER:

Good point! Indeed, RG is not operating CPT anymore. The CPT flight was actually part of RG flight GIG-GRU-JNB-CPT/CPT-JNB-GRU-GIG.

Considering that RG has a codeshare with SA, it would not make sense to continue the leg JNB-CPT, as RG could simply use its cooperation with SA to fly passengers on this leg.

The actually background info about the CPT operation, is that a Brazilian tour agency negotiated with RG the CPT flight (the JNB-CPT leg was only operational 1 x week with the 767). RG ceased the JNB-CPT leg last September.

I think another possible reason why RG started to operate CPT, was to impose a direct competition with MH, which is operating CPT-EZE (as part of their twice weekly flight KUL-JNB-CPT-EZE). MH is the only other connection between Africa/Asia apart from the SA-RG flights.

Another interesting point:

Some time ago RG decised to extend their flight GRU-CDG and added the leg CDG-AMS, which has been relatively successful mainly because of cargo. The flight CDG-AMS is almost empty (less than 20% load factor, but the belly of the aircraft is almost always full). Since late last year, in order to improve the load factor between CDG-AMS, RG started operating this short leg also as a LCC under the name BasiqAir (you find tickets for each leg for EUR 36! - but the flight keeps the RG code). You can notice this as RG operates in AMS at Terminal G, where usually only charter flights operate (which also helps in keeping handling/airport fee lower). It was an intelligent and market-oriented decision. RG operates AMS-CDG-GRU-POA daily (the CDG stop-over is quick and passengers onward to GRU remain on board).
 
s.p.a.s.
Posts: 916
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2001 2:04 pm

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:36 am

Hardiwv,

Actually, RG is the first Brazilian airline to operate the B757, not Latin American, as pointed out by other fellow posters...

With this delivery, Varig also "closed the family" and is part of the group of airlines who operated all Boeing models.(707 to 777)

Recently we heard a rumour that a third 777 would also join the fleet (F-GSPH from Air France), but I did not know that AF was retiring 777-200ERs already..

Saludos

Renato
"ad astra per aspera"
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:18 am

Renato,

Thanks again for the remarks! Amazing your info that RG operated ALL the Boeing family. Note than in 1996 RG ceased to operate the 747 full pax. No doubt that RG has been a reliable customer of Boeing! The only aircraft which are not Boeing in the RG fleet are the Embraers (not sure how many still under operation), and they will be dropped from RG fleet next year! So RG whole fleet will be Boeing, right?

Are you sure RG will get an extra 777 from AF?

If you read the post above by LVZXV you will note that RG will actualy add two 777s from UA.

This is the post by LVZXV:

N207UA and N208UA are due next month. Both are -ERs. They will be registered PP-VRE and PP-VRF respectively.

Hardi
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:23 am

AF retiring a 777? News to me too!

Hardiwv:

The 8 EMB-145ERs are actually operated by RG subsidiary Rio Sul, but I think they wear RG colours. Besides them, it's true, RG operate an ALL Boeing fleet if you count the MD-11. AR has the 2nd largest Boeing fleet in the region, but if they take delivery of all 32 B737-300/500s and 17 B747-400s on order, they'll become THE largest.

Regards,

ZXV

P.S. For your impressive and up-to-date knowledge of Brazilian aviation, welcome to my R/U list!  Smile

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
DBCooper
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:51 am

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:28 am

I can confirm from looking out the window at CGH that the RJs fly in RioSul/VARIG colors!


- DBC
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:51 am

BTW, does anybody knows the status of the RG 777 flight to SCL?
I was in Pudahuel in early sept. and RG brought a 763 instead. it was just that day or RG stopped the 777 to Chile?

***

ZXV: 17 B 744s???? are you sure they are that much? amd counting of "all boeings operators", Lan is only lacking for the 777, but here we go!

Regards )( Arcano
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
DBCooper
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:51 am

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:51 pm

Don't count on those 2 specific 777s joining the fleet - I see both are up for auction at a foreclosure sale being held in Boston on 10/29 (ref. 10/7 Aircraft Insider)


- DBC
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:37 pm

Arcano:

I'm as surprised as you--to me it's another "Linha Aérea Mais Grande do Mundo" pipe dream. Initially, the plan was for 45 B737-300/500s and 4 B747-400s, but, según Marsans, that has since been changed to 32 of the former and 17 of the latter. Each of the 4 subsidiaries are due to receive at least one, but with the exception of Chile, is it really poosible to fill a 747 flying from ASU, MVD or VVI to anywhere? In any case, that still leaves a dozen for AR, and even if they ditch the A340-200s (which in my view proivde them with greater flexibility), I still see them have over capacity problems. We'll have to wait and see.

The first 3 of the 744s are ex-Canadian/Air Canada, but the ancestry of the other 14 set to join over the next 4 years has not been publicly announced. For commonality's sake, they would have to be GE-powered, so that would rule out BA, SQ and UA and many other obvious choices as candidates.

I may be slightly cynical about AR procurements, but that's only because I'm always right!  Big grin

Saludos,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
Lan_Fanatic
Posts: 1056
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:57 pm

Arcano: There is no more 777 service from GRU to SCL. It was switched to MD-11. BTW, I went to SCL two sundays ago as my father was going to Europe with RG, and I saw a Varig 737 (800?) with only one winglet. What happened to the other? Nobody knows.
 
s.p.a.s.
Posts: 916
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2001 2:04 pm

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:41 am

Hardi,

Indeed Varig Group E145s are operated with Varig style colours, but with RioSul titles. RioSul had 16 E145s, but it is cheaper to operate imported planes (i.e. Boeings) rather than domestically build Embraers, mainly due taxes. This is why they are dumping the E145s from the fleet, and they are being transfered to the Air Force, as transport planes, replacing the HS.748s(C-91 with FAB):


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Regarding F-GSPH, as I said, it was a rumour, really did not belive it back then.

LanFanatic,

Reg. this 737-800, it was involved in a ground incident while being towed, apparently it was hit (or hit, not sure) by a LAN A319. Registration is PP-VSA and it was last week in Rio maintenance waiting for a spare part.

Saludos

Renato


[Edited 2004-10-12 20:43:55]
"ad astra per aspera"
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:25 am

LVZXV:

Thanks!  Smile Thanks as well for the update on RG's fleet of Embraers. Note that RG's subsidiaries Rio Sul and Nordeste are now integrated into RG so that they don't have their own codes, operating all under RG codes (and not as SL and NE).

DBCooper:

Thanks for the 777 info. My only hope is that RG starts, on a definete manner, to phase out its fleet of MD-11...they are quite old-fashioned and would serve better as cargo!  Smile

S.p.a.s.

Good to know that more Embraers will integrate Brazil's Air Force for passenger tranportation. For you info, the Brazil's President Office bought a brand new, tailor-made, Airbus ACJ (delivery Feb/05) and therefore will retire the noise 707 (called "sucatao" in Brazil), which will head for the museum (where it should have been for a long time ago)  Smile

LVZXV:

AR has orders of 14 747? wow...RG already operated 3 747 full pax, dropped in 1997 from RG fleet. Btw, out of interest, I travelled with AR 774 on the route EZE-SYD in 1996 (loooong flight!). The best of the trip was an operational stop-over (refuelling) in RGL (Rio Gallegos). In my opinion RGL is one of the most beautiful airports in the world because of its amazing and unparallel location. I will never forget the landing, with the surrounding ice-toped mountains; children of a local school were waiting for the aircraft to land with flags...it was something I will never forget....of course, RGL is only second in beauty to SDU  Smile
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:07 am

A pic in HAM of the tailor-made Airbus ACJ which will be delivered to Brazil's President Office:


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...thanks god they got rid of the 707!


 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:54 am

TAM flight BSB/POA/EZE/POA/BSB will be operated by its own with A320. No old, dirty near defuct RG B733....God bless us!!!
 
s.p.a.s.
Posts: 916
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:14 am

JJMNGR,

As always a stupid remark from you hun, mate? You can't resist to make an attack to Varig hun?

[procura um psicologo cara, voce deve ter algum complexo de inferioridade]

Cheers
"ad astra per aspera"
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:27 am

Hardiwv:

RG operated a total of 13 747s--5 -200s, -5 -300s and 3 -400s--from 1985-2000. 2 of the -300s were Combis.

On a tangeant...

Like I said, I find it hard to envisage 17 747-400s wearing AR's white and blue colours, unless there was a "baby boom" in Argentina that I never knew about, or plans exist for an "Aerolíneas México" or an even bigger "Aerolíneas Americas" with hubs in BOG, CCS, GRU, LIM, MIA, MEX, or wherever...you get the point, all this Linha Aérea Mais Grande do Mundo" talk that has never fooled me. If it had, I would be delluded into believing that AR had already taken delivery of dozens of Airbus A320/A321s, A340-500/600s, Fokker 100s and what not serving Beijing, Cairo, Dubai, Shanghai, Tokyo etc. out of new hubs such as Athens, Bariloche, Córdoba and Salta blablabla as Marsans have been promising over the last 3 years...

Just take each day as it comes with AR. If a new 747 arrives, great. If a new route is added, fantastic. If AR receives all the new 737s and 747s and maybe even the A340s they say they will, then I'll be ready with the champagne to celebrate. Until then...

Oh, one last thing, you said you found RGL "beautiful"? Well, it's Patagonia I guess, a place I know like the back of my hand and love to death, but if you want "beautiful", check out Ushuaia - Malvinas Argentinas Int'l:


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Sorry, I like the place!  Big grin

Regards,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
s.p.a.s.
Posts: 916
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2001 2:04 pm

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:42 am

ZXV,

RG operated a total of 13 747s--5 -200s, -5 -300s and 3 -400s--from 1985-2000. 2 of the -300s were Combis.

Just another small correction, RG operated a total of 12:
3x B747-200B Combi (ntu by Lybian Arab)
3x B747-300 full pax
2x B747-300 Combi
3x B747-400
and
1x B747-200B with PW engines, leased from SAA(briefly)

Gran saludos

Renato
"ad astra per aspera"
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:35 am

S.p.a.s,

Inferioridade??? Hahaha com relação à VARIG??? só pode ser uma grande piada. O ser humano se sente inferior com coisas grandes e que valem á pena se importar...

Everytime the issue is about this VARIG...I really can´t resist...sorry but it is something that is much more strong than my self control...
 
erikwilliam
Posts: 2122
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:30 am

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:25 am

Hello fellas, I´m back from 3 months off and what do I see?!?JJMNGR kicking Varig´s butt.ehehe
S.P.A.S:Actually JJ is right, unfortunately Varig is crap, it wasn´t, but I have no idea how they are still flying, anyway...I also think JJ sometimes is too harsh.
JJMNGR: I read in another post U had twins, my sincere congratulations, I have a baby girl, she´s 3 now and I just can´t get enough of her, I look forward to get home every single day when she´s there, U gonna have the best of your life....and yes, sometimes U get too harsh on Varig, U know that I support U in all Tam´s subjects, but that´s not the case.
Anyway, I´m very happy to be back in A.net

Going for a beer now and watch Brasil vs.Colombia, and here´s a tough, for the guys in Brasil, and who live in Sao Paulo, we could get togheter and have a cold one on some given saturday, what U guys think?!just a tought.

Have a nice evening U all.
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:33 am

LVZXV:

Thanks for the wonderful pics and good memories!

I think RGL is actually in Tierra del Fuego, right? Sorry for my poor geography about Argentina (maybe Tierra del Fuego is part of Patagonia?), but anyway RGL's location is in the extreme South of Argentina. So much that the AR flight EZE-SYD at the time was called "transpolar"...probably RGL is the southernmost airport in Argentina (will check this info and get back to you later)....I was just wondering now that SQ is serving SIA-JFK direct and non-stop, maybe in the near future AR could also serve EZE-SYD direct without the refulling stop in RGL...but skipping the stop in RGL would be too bad...the travel would not be the same...  Smile

 
EMB195ER
Posts: 253
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:36 am

Erikwilliam,

I did like the idea of having a beer!!!


Hugs,

EMB195ER
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:02 am

I am envious of you, guys! I will miss that one.... Sad
Enjoy your BRAHMA!!!!!!!!!
 Big grin
Hardi
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:37 am

I think RGL is actually in Tierra del Fuego, right? Sorry for my poor geography about Argentina (maybe Tierra del Fuego is part of Patagonia?), but anyway RGL's location is in the extreme South of Argentina. So much that the AR flight EZE-SYD at the time was called "transpolar"...probably RGL is the southernmost airport in Argentina (will check this info and get back to you later)....I was just wondering now that SQ is serving SIA-JFK direct and non-stop, maybe in the near future AR could also serve EZE-SYD direct without the refulling stop in RGL...but skipping the stop in RGL would be too bad...the travel would not be the same...

Hey Hardi,

Río Gallegos (RGL) is the capital of Santa Cruz province. Tierra del Fuego is another province, whose capital is Ushuaia (USH). The second largest city in Tierra del Fuego is Río Grande (RGA). Even though Tierra del Fuego is an island (Isla Grande de Tierra del Fuego), it is considered as a part of Patagonia. Río Gallegos is the southermost city in continental Argentina, while Ushuaia is the southermost.

AR 1182 (EZE-AKL-SYD) is still called "El Transpolar" by the locals. It is now served with an A340-200 and the stop at RGL has been removed a few years ago. Last time I went to RGL (1999), I remember a handwritten message at the Aerolíneas counter saying "El Transpolar no para más en Gallegos" (El Transpolar doesn't stop at RGL anymore) Big grin

And you should not apologize for your Argentinian geography. You know way more than lots of Argentinians!  Big grin



Saludos,
Marambio

[Edited 2004-10-14 00:39:52]
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:58 am

Hardiwv:

I forgive you! You'd be surprised how few Argentines seem capable of locating TF on a map, and some actually ask me if they have TV down there, to which I reply "no, nothing, they live in huts, never wash and burn peat to keep warm" (well, not so long ago, that wasn't far from the truth...).  Big grin

Rio Gallegos is near the southern tip of mainland Argentina, at around latitude 51S. Where the mainland finishes, you have the narrow Straits of Magellan, of which both sides are Chilean. After that, you have the "Isla Grande de Tierra del Fuego", which is about 60% Chilean and 40% Argentine, but the only two main cities are on the Argentine side. The more northerly one is Rio Grande (pop. 60,000) and to the south you have Ushuaia (pop. 50,000), at latitude 54.5S, the provincial capital. The latter has one of the longest runways in Argentina, capable of handling L-1011s, 747s and even the Concorde, and is undoubtedly the southernmost international airport in the world.
Tierra del Fuego is part of Patagonia, but one of the most captivating, rugged and surreal parts of it.

With regards to EZE-SYD, since 2000 AR has been using A340-200s, which still fly a transpolar (you can usually see it cruising over Tierra del Fuego). The flight takes about 19 hours, including a stop in AKL.

Regards,

ZXV


How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
hardiwv
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:24 pm

Marambio:
LVZXV:

Thanks for the excellent and detailed information! I certainly have to consider going back to southern Argentina on holidays ! Your explanations were great, and things now make more sense.

When I flew EZE-SYD, indeed there was an additional stop-over in AKL (and the leg AKL-SYD was operated by Air New Zealand). At the time AR used the 747. As you mentioned, now AR is using the A 340-200 and the flight is still called " transpolar".

Marambio, so the RGL technical stop for refuelling is not part of the itinerary anymore, right? Was the stop in RGL actually necessary, or what was the reason behind the "refuelling" stop in RGL? Or maybe it was just an strategy to "promote" RGL? (I remember that at the stop in RGL all passengers had to get off the aircraft and wait for refuelling inside the airport).

About SYD, there was a time AR was competing with QF the route EZE-SYD. Nowadays QF ceased to operate to EZE and operates instead to SCL, codesharing with OW partner LAN.

Thanks, guys!!!!!!!  Smile

 
LVZXV
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:30 am

Hardi:

To the best of my knowledge, in the days of the 747-200 on the transpolar route, the aircraft had a range issue on the outbound/westbound segment, necessitating a fuel stop as close to Antarctica as possible prior to the Pacific crossing (in those days, USH didn't exist; you had the tricky and dangerous EAU instead, so RGL was the last "major" airport). It was just to increase the safety margin, as the plane could probably make it to AKL direct with favourable winds, but why risk it? AKL-EZE was no problem because of the prevailing easterly winds.

I can't think of any other reason as to why the 747 had to put down in RGL; I doubt it was for promotional reasons as there is nothing to see in RGL anyway. Even these days, there have been instances where an AR 742 has had to land at GRU on the MAD-EZE service due to strong headwinds over the Atlantic increasing fuel burn, especially if the plane left MAD approaching its MTOW, as can happen.

Regards,

ZXV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
hardiwv
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:38 am

LVZXV:

Again, very convincing information! Thanks a lot for all your insights and explanations!

Hardi
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:49 pm

Here are the very first pics of RG new 757s already operating on the route EZE-GRU-LIM, and GIG-GRU-CCS.


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Photo © Bruno David
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Photo © Fabio Laranjeira




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Photo © Ariel Shocron
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Photo © Luis A.B.Waehneldt





 
Argentina
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:43 pm

RG B757 is not scheduled for LIM any more from November 1st.

Instead, the routes will be:

REC-SSA-GIG-EZE-GIG-SSA-REC Daily
GIG-GRU-CCS-AUA-CCS-GRU-GIG 2 weekly
GIG-GRU-CCS-GRU-GIG 2 weekly
GIG-GRU-BOG-GRU-GIG 3 weekly

Flight Dep From To Arr Freq
RG 8614 15:30 REC SSA 16:45 Daily
17:15 SSA GIG 20:25
21:05 GIG EZE 23:20
RG 8615 06:00 EZE GIG 10:00 Daily
10:40 GIG SSA 11:40
12:15 SSA REC 13:30

RG 8946 13:00 GIG GRU 14:10 14
14:55 GRU CCS 18:55
19:45 CCS AUA 20:45
RG 8947 22:00 AUA CCS 23:00
23:45 CCS GRU 07:30
08:25 GRU GIG 09:25

RG 8942 16:20 GIG GRU 17:30 23
18:15 GRU CCS 22:15
RG 8943 23:45 CCS GRU 07:30
08:25 GRU GIG 09:25

RG 8698 15:25 GIG GRU 16:25 567
17:10 GRU BOG 20:00
RG 8699 21:00 BOG GRU 05:50
06:35 GRU GIG 07:35

 
hardiwv
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:00 am

Argentina,

Thanks for the info. So RG will use a mix of aircraft to CCS, BOG and EZE, covering these cities with the 757, MD11 and 767, depending on dates. LIM will continue with the 737, which has less capacity, once JJ will also start dialy flights to LIM.

Hardi
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3654
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:12 am

Nice!!!! So the 757s are coming to BOG!!! Those 73G really didnt fit in the 7-hour flight.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:20 am

RCS763av:

Yes, BOG will be served daily by RG with 757 and 767.

Hardi
 
MIAspotter
Posts: 2848
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:31 am

Don't Forget Avensa/Servivensa of Venezuela also operated a couple of 757s long time ago, there are pictures of them on the database....just too lazy now to look em up' Big grin

Cheers

MIAspotter
Nos vamos de Vueling?
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3654
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:34 am

767???? I know there are flights to MAO also....do you have the complete schedule?
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
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RE: RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network

Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:55 am

BOG-MAO: 1 x week, with the 737;
BOG-GRU: 3 x week, with the 767;
BOG-GRU: 3 x week, with the 757;

Hardi

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