Mike77
Topic Author
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Air China Vs. China Airlines

Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:32 pm

Is there much difference between Air China & China Airlines? Aesthetically-speaking, China Airlines looks much nicer and up to Western standards, but you can't always judge a book by its cover. Is there a difference between service levels, safety standards, etc?



Michael
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:38 pm

China Airlines looks much nicer and up to Western standards

...I guess that's why they're widely considered the world's LEAST safe large airline?  Laugh out loud
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
N1120A
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:41 pm

China Airlines definately has had its problems with safety, sliding a 744 off the runway and into Hong Kong Harbor at Kai Tak, the crash of a 742 they already had sold to Orient Thai. Air China could definately do something with their paint job, but they don't have a glaringly bad safety record
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
carnoc
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:19 pm

Well, in terms of safety concerns, China Airlines certainly beats Air China.

However, although China Airlines may be a bit more 'risky', but their inflight products & services are sure above Air China (although Air China is quickly catching up now).

Best Regards.
 
Carfield
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:15 pm

I think in terms of safety records, Air China and China Airlines share a somewhat similar history. But in terms of inflight service, CI is still way ahead of AirChina. Meals are better. F/As are there to work and they smile... CI is actually quite up to International standard when it comes to inflight service... (better than some US carriers if you ask me)...

In terms of decor, CI is okay la... In terms of plane livery and flight attendant uniform, I think China Airlines is much better...

Carfield

I am on the flight to San Francisco
Here I go, on my way, and I think I’ll be Okay
Los Angeles, Anchorage, Montreal, Toronto
And here I go, I think everything will be okay
Los Angeles, Anchorage, Montreal, and then who knows
I’ll take my chances from San Francisco – “CL 411”
 
Trvlr
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:30 pm

First of all, Air China is from the People's Republic of China, while China Airlines is based in Taiwan. Given the current political situation, comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges.

Its safety record notwithstanding, China Airlines has certainly established itself as a major full-service premium airline. Being from the P.R.C., Air China has obviously not been the most outward-looking carrier for most of its history, but that is changing now, and rapidly. I expect Air China to undergo a major image overhaul soon, and concentrate operations at their modern Beijing hub.

Aaron G.
 
ktachiya
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:45 pm

China Airlines from Taiwan has caused many accidents in the recent years. For instance, the NGO accident of 94 or 95 on the A300-600 was a major accident killing people on board and also people on the ground. The 742 that was sold to Orient Thai was also a horrible incident that I will never forget.

China Airlines is emerging as a good carrier. Their fleet is also being renewed. Yet, admist this process, when they got the delivery of the A340-300, they hit the wings on a tower but flew all the way back to TPE.

China Airlines, well I have been on it once and the service was very bad compared to China Airlines.

But again its Taiwan and mainland China, how really can you compare these two?
Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:00 pm

Like Trvir said, they are from two different countries who are not exactly getting along too well with each other at the moment.
I heard that Air China has the worst safety record of all the big carriers, can anyone verify this for me, thanks.
 
Airbus_A340
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:18 pm

"when they got the delivery of the A340-300, they hit the wings on a tower but flew all the way back to TPE"

Actually, the plane took off the wrong runway and the landing gear hit snow.

You maybe confusing a Singapore Airlines incident at TPE after the crash, where a 744 went through a parking bay and knocked over a tailstand and continued to take-off to SIN without having the damage checked out.
People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
 
Bekol
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:44 pm

If my memory serves me right, the only serious accident Air China involved in this few years was a 762 crashed at Pusan in Korea, but I can think of a number of accidents made by CI (human errors mostly), like a 744 (I think it's the first 744 that written off) written off at Kai Tak, 742 broke up in the air.. A340 took off hitting something at ANC.. AB6 crashing at NGO, TPE, etc...

For inflight service, CI is much better compare with CA. CA still has many rooms to improve in order to catch up with the international standard.
 
lutfi
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:58 pm

And both airlines do share a common history (at the end of the civil war, CNAC split into two, some pilots and aircraft fleeing to Taiwan with the Nationalists, others staying)

There was a long running dispute over the CNAC fleet that had been parked in HK for safety during the war - with lawsuits and aircraft being "stolen" by pilots from both sides! In the end the HK authorities had to disable the fleet by removing the wings to stop anymore being removed.

Anyway, CNAC staff and pilots then formed the airlines that led to both China Airlines and Air China (CAAC)
 
B2443
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:38 pm

Never flown CI, can't comment too much. But didn't they crash a couple 747s, A300s and an MD11? I took CA many times, I thought they were okay. But service with both on ground in in flight, need improvement. Their website offers little info and much is outdated. Their business/first class seats were like those in the early 80s. Food/beverage selections were nothing to be proud of when you come to expect from an Asian airline. Counter and phone customer service was minimal. Ticketing system felt old and rigid. Given all these negative points, I still consider CA the best in China, better than MU and CZ.
 
Cathay Pacific
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:18 am

I second Carfield's comment.

Apart from their safety record China Airlines is a perfectly fine airline.

Catering,
Service,
Seat Comfort,
and to a lesser extend, IFE are all of very high standard.

To be honest, I was quite impress with them after flying them for the first time earlier this year!

cathay pacific, now you're really flying
 
bluewhite
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:08 am

"Apart from their safety record..." - that's the single most important thing to me when I'm flying ANY airline...!

I am actually pretty sure that the B762 crash in Korea was the first ever for Air China, (not CAAC).
CI had an awful safety record over the past decade - an AB6 or two, an MD11, a couple of 747's....although, fingers crossed, it seems to have improved recently.

BW
 
Tod
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:34 am

CA still has many rooms to improve in order to catch up with the international standard.

The 744 fleet reconfiguration starts the first of December. It will include modern First and Business class seating and IFE. It will also have no center stowage bins except in couch.

Tod
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:39 am

I think in terms of safety records, Air China and China Airlines share a somewhat similar history

Hmm... can't really decide if this comparison is realistic or anecdotal.

On one hand, CA's safety record is much more improved than the former CAAC-- and to compare the two seems akin to comparing BA to the former BOAC.

Then again, the modern BA is a private enterprise owned/operated/managed in a fashion wholy different from BOAC. I'm hard-pressed to think of all that many comparative differences between CA and CAAC in terms of said category.

.....interesting.




Apart from their safety record China Airlines is a perfectly fine airline.

...where were you when Ford really needed you:
"apart from a tendency to blow up and fry the crap outta their passengers, the Pinto is a perfectly fine automobile"  Nuts
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
B2443
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:44 am

...many comparative differences between CA and CAAC in terms of said category.

According to Lufti:
Before 1949, CNAC
After 1949, CI (Taiwan) and CAAC (mainland)

They don't operate on the same route ever. Both CA and CI have modern fleet of Boeing and Airbus. In current CI livery, ROC flag was removed. In current CA livery, PRC flag is still there.

In 1980's, CAAC's operators were brokern up into CA, MU, CZ etc. and CAAC remained as an adminstrative agency. They are all state owned and they all went public (MU CZ both HK and NYSE listed, CA recently listed in HK).

Air China, which was the Beijing Branch of CAAC, has had one crash of 762 near Pusan several years ago since CAAC years (55 years today).

Apart from their safety record China Airlines is a perfectly fine airline.

I can't imagine how one can put "safety record" in the above sentence as if it was something "optional". Without safety record, forget about IFE and other "services", IMO. Especially with someone like CI that has had 2 747, 2 A300, and one MD11 crashes in the past decade alone, I would think "safety record" first over IFE and the likes.
 
yukimizake
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:11 pm

From reply #6 "China Airlines, well I have been on it once and the service was very bad compared to China Airlines." ??? Perhaps you could elaborate on this.

'Opfer müssen gebracht werden (Sacrifices must be made)' - Otto Lilienthal
 
jfrworld
Posts: 367
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:22 pm

This is a bit off topic, but still relevant. Comparing Air China and China Airlines is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. What about China Airlines vs. EVA Air? Which is better from a service pepspective? Both are from Taiwan.
 
chiawei
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:18 pm

CI's FA service is about the same as EVA.

However, EVA's food and hardware is a huge step behind CI.

But CI's safety is a huge step behind EVA.
 
katanapilot
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:22 pm

I have flown a few China Airlines flights this year, and I gotta say, that airline is really turning itself around. I know that the gov of Taiwan is having more input because of image problems they suffered after so many crashes and drunken pilots.

The F/A's were the best i've ever seen....somehow, they were always there within 3 seconds of pressing the button, even on that terrible 15.5 hour Taipei-JFK nonstop. Tireless, sweet, and helpful.

The food was phenomenal, even the vegetarian meals my girlfriend got were delectable.

The A340-313x on the TPE-JFK-ANC-TPE route is a pretty plane, but the seats are wayyyy too small in economy for my 6'3" frame I have to say. At least on the 15.5 hour non-stop on the way back, I had three seats to myself to lie on heh
heh.

I watched out for crazy drunken aerobatics as well, but the pilots seemed very competent on all 7 flights i flew this year.

That's my two cents
 
chinaeastern
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:27 pm

Carfield:
what you said about safety record regarding the 2 airlines is just wrong and sorry, it is one of the most random mistakes i've seen in the forum. i should say that CA's safety record is quite good actually while CI is crap. assuming an airlines safety record without actually any knowledge about it is just wrong wrong and wrong. BTW, i'm far from being a CA fan and i truely hate them and put them in the list i'll never ever fly along with KE, but this might be as stereotypical as you were regarding the safety record, but at least, i've experienced CA's in flight service while you haven't witted CA's crash.
 
warren747sp
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:48 am

If you take account CA's safety record, then you must take into account all of CAAC's history not the carrier which just splinted off later on. I don't think it is something they can be pround of at all.
747SP
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Air China Vs. China Airlines

Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:52 am

If you take account CA's safety record, then you must take into account all of CAAC's history not the carrier which just splinted off later on. I don't think it is something they can be pround of at all.

...hmm, if that's your game:
would you consider BOAC's rather disconcerting safety record before it became what's today BA?

You might think twice about climbing aboard a SpeedBird if you did.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Carfield
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Well We Just Did It

Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:39 am

Well we just went through pretty much the history of these Chinese airlines...

Air China and CAAC has seven incidents during the past decade... four relatively major with total aircraft lost, and three with various levels of causalties.

China Eastern has one major incident and two minor incidents.

China Souther has two major incidents and one minor incident.

China Airlines have seven major accidents plus two minor incidents.

So no need to say much about records... China Airlines is a bit weak in the safety record for sure, but Air China and its group of Chinese airlines are not impressive. Considered I have not counted airlines such as China Northern, China Northwest... I believe only Shanghai Airlines is privatized... At the same time, I will say that the Chinese airlines are catching up and there are not too many incidents within the past five years, except the memorable crash in Pusan by CA's Boeing 767-200ER. China Airlines is very weak as I can easily recall the Nagoya, the crashed HK landing, and the midflight explosion of its Boeing 747-200 on another TPE-HKG flight.

However, I remain concerned how transparent airline safety record is in the PRC, and some incidents may or may not be recorded... that is my major reservation. I remain very skeptical about news produced by the Xinhua Chinese News Agency... and also about the maintenance record. But this is just my prejudice and I will admit to it... based on the facts, Air China is pretty safe, but I am just very hesistant to say that it is the safest airline to fly. However, as China is heading the Capitalist way and CX and QF sent their planes to Xiamen for major maintenance, things have changed.

About counting CAAC as part of Air China's history, I think that is debatable, but the different between BOAC and BA is that it happened only thirty to forty years ago during the late 70s, but Air China becomes separated about fifteen years ago. That is the difference...

I have my prejudice about these Mainland Chinese airlines... but I stand by my statement.

Carfield